Devs, please explain why you are nerfing one of the most popular activities on Homecoming

[MistressOhm]

6 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Its only entitlement if you dont want or dont like what someone else wants

 

Ennh?

 

Entitlement :  the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

 

 

[kelika2]

7 minutes ago, MistressOhm said:

Entitlement :  the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

true meaning =/= definition.

[arcane]

2 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

true meaning =/= definition.

Whoo boy here we go

[Xiddo]

Holy mother of Mot lads, go outside for a bit 

[kelika2]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

Whoo boy here we go

Do you mean that by the definition of what a boy is or the true meaning of sarcasm and dislike of what is about to happen?

[MistressOhm]

3 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

true meaning =/= definition.

 

And with this, you just stated to everyone that you're willing to throw base principles completely out the window to "win". 

 

 This is not a philosophical discussion; if you bring up the term "entitlement" and recast it to mean something completely different than the actual definition, no one else will even have a clue what you're referring to.   Just, slap in a placeholder word that doesn't have ANY meaning at all, and people will get the idea from context easier than going with some weird form of DoubleSpeak like this. 

 

We're done.

[kelika2]

3 minutes ago, MistressOhm said:

And with this, you just stated to everyone that you're willing to throw base principles completely out the window to "win".

What is there to win here?

This thread devolved long before we both showed up.  Wont be long before a quip&lock happens

[Glacier Peak]

17 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

true meaning =/= definition.

[Doc_Scorpion]

52 minutes ago, Neiska said:

And nor should you pound that one nail in, and then say you weren't out for that one nail. But please make no mistake, I am not claiming "nothing" should have been done. I just take a dim view on what was done. You could have adjusted it from both ends - lower AE a "little", raise non-AE a "little" to meet in the middle. Or raise non-AE. Or, you know, actually standardize "everything" regardless of activity, (but they won't do that one either.)

Do I actually need to repeat myself?  Or do you honestly not grasp the simple and basic principles of "nobody with any sense makes more work for themselves" and "you don't fix problems by breaking other things and making things worse"?

Not to mention your last sentences is patent nonsense.  They are working on equalizing and standardizing everything - you just don't like how it's being done.

 

55 minutes ago, Neiska said:

IMO, they did what you said, the "no brainer" and took path of least resistance. I don't blame them for it, but I do arch an eyebrow when they take the path of least resistance, and then the atmosphere became "It wasn't a nerf, it was a fix. We aren't out for farmers we swear" when in the same patch, they made it a point to "encourage" non-AE activities. 

Had the devs encouraged non-AE activities, you'd have a point.  They didn't.  They did the same kinds of things they've in many other Pages, with and without changes to AE.

There is no conspiracy.  There is no secret agenda.  There is no "pressure" being applied.
 

 

1 hour ago, Neiska said:

Or perhaps they could stop putting pressure on people to do an activity they don't enjoy?

There is no pressure to do something you don't enjoy.  The AE buildings are still there and fully functional.  The farms are still there and you can still farm to your heart's content.

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, ivanhedgehog said:

You just said that all activities are NOT rewarded equally.

 

There's no XP for building a base.  Standing in front of the donut shop and having a conversation with an NPC generates no drops.  Participating in costume contests doesn't make progress toward defeat badges.  That doesn't mean different activities aren't equally rewarding, but risk is always a factor in material rewards.  Always.  Zero risk, zero material reward.  That's a foundation of reward structures in every game.  If you want the best material rewards, you play the hardest content.  Without that increased material reward on the hardest content, there's no reason to run it, from a reward perspective, other than challenging oneself.

 

Material rewards are important, but they aren't the only rewards.  I'm not the only one who logs in, gets to the character list and stops, thinking, "Wow, I really nailed it with that costume".  Or built a base just for the satisfaction of having a little in-game home.  Role-players role-play because they experience an emotional and social reward for role-playing.  What's interesting is that none of the people who get 0 XP/inf*/drops for their favored activities are jumping on the forums and demanding explanations from the developers.  They don't accuse the developers of trying to kill their preferred play style, or drive them out of the community, or making changes designed specifically to fuck them over.  No, they all appear to be content with the rewards they receive for their preferred activities, because the developers do, in fact, understand that non-material rewards are as important as material rewards, and have gone to great lengths to improve the non-material rewards in the game.  New items for bases, new emotes, new costume parts, permanent Halloween costumes, et cetera.  Things that make people happy, even if they're not gaining XP/inf*/drops.

 

All content should be equally rewarding, but not equally materially rewarding.  You don't "deserve" the same rewards as Hard Mode *F runners when you're standing in one spot in a custom-built AE farm because you're not doing the same amount of work, you're not investing the same amount of time, you're not at the same risk of failure, you're not even technically required to be present at the keyboard.  You receive less material rewards than the Hard Mode *F runners when you're AE farming, but you gain the non-material rewards of doing less work, facing a lower risk of failure, having absolute control over the enemies you fight and how those enemies are designed, being able to stay in one building for the entire time you're logged in, never having to work with a team to accomplish your goals, and more.  While you sit there, being spoon-fed your material rewards, the Hard Mode players are investing more time and effort for what they want and/or need.  They earn higher material rewards, but fewer non-material rewards, like taking a relaxed approach to playing, being able to get up and go walk the dog while the character does all of the work for them, having a low risk of defeat even when completely surrounded by enemies.

 

You are, at any time, free to give up some of your non-material rewards in exchange for higher material rewards.  And even that is as it should be.  You decide your own level of reward in this game, your own balance of material and non-material rewards.

[Neiska]

4 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

There is no conspiracy.  There is no secret agenda.  There is no "pressure" being applied.

 

I never said or even used the word conspiracy or agenda. Your words, not mine. But I would call reducing the amount of reward in one activity, while boosting others, even offering additional rewards there not given elsewhere, as pressure. You run non-AE and you can get drops, inf, exp, merits, your pick of free incarnate materials, even astrals now. With Ae you get inf, exp, and drops. I would call that extra incentive to do non-AE things. I mean if we want to nit-pick, you even get badges, accolades, and titles by non-ae things.

 

4 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

There is no pressure to do something you don't enjoy.  The AE buildings are still there and fully functional.  The farms are still there and you can still farm to your heart's content.

 

Sure. At a reduced rate, for less inf, on different builds than before, because what once worked no longer does. Sure, "no pressure" indeed.

 

But let's clarify something. I am not an "afk" farmer, I'm an active farmer and multiboxer. The majority of these changes, in particularly the AI, actually made my farms faster. I say this to underscore the other point I made that you neglected - some people feel so shunned that they no longer post or even use the discord publicly. As an example I spoke here about a matter that didn't even affect me personally, and this is the response. I say I agreed with the issue, but not how it was resolved, and you insinuate that I am a "tinfoil hat" conspiracist?

 

So if this is your response to me on a matter such as this, just how much do you think they are willing to speak up otherwise on other possibly more serious matters? Food for thought.

[ivanhedgehog]

1 hour ago, Songseven said:

think i missing something here,

 

you're still able to farm AE right?!

 

so what exactly is the problem, things change get over it, nothing has been taken from you.

So if they were to get rid of the first 3 pvp zones, the pvper can still pvp in what they have left right? what is the problem, things change. You think the pvp community wouldnt complain?

[MistressOhm]

1 minute ago, ivanhedgehog said:

So if they were to get rid of the first 3 pvp zones, the pvper can still pvp in what they have left right? what is the problem, things change. You think the pvp community wouldnt complain?

 

The PvP community got a huge gift in this last release = the ability to set up bases as PvP arenas.   

 

This is something that both the base builder and PvP groups have been asking for, low-key, since base raiding was disabled soon after it was released, back on Live.  It was a really fun idea that came out of the gate badly broken, and up until now has been a back-burner "we should get to that" item that finally, someone was able to re-implement.   

 

Completely tangential to the current thread, but, I wanted to point out that sometimes the less vocal groups actually get something, rather than have something pulled.  

 

We now return you to the 'farm nerfage' rhubarb, already in progress.

[kelika2]

2 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Material rewards

Speed TFs and itrials exist.  even hami raids pretty much rush blooms with lore pets

 No one complains about that speed content for some reason and its frustrating as fuck watching firefarms take a hit every god damn page meanwhile they do not want to disable lore pets in the hive/abyss, or anything to the rest of the game.

And if someone is about to complain about the "slog" of killing blooms then damn son, can i skip the slog of leveling?  leave firefarming alone

[PeregrineFalcon]

4 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

So if they were to get rid of the first 3 pvp zones, the pvper can still pvp in what they have left right? what is the problem, things change. You think the pvp community wouldnt complain?

Sure they would. And I'm certain that the developers will give their complaints the same consideration they gave to ours when we asked them not to nerf Rune of Protection, or add a combo to Energy Melee, or add a combo to Sorcery Pool.

 

What I got when I read this thread: AFK Farmers big mad they can't AFK farm anymore.  🤪

[ivanhedgehog]

1 hour ago, Neiska said:

 

Sure, But I would also want the merits/astrals/weekly rewards included as well, not just the inf/kill tally.

Dont forget the prismatics. the way that was introduced shifted a lot of inf very quickly.

[Indystruck]

I use fire sword on my farmer so really, they buffed my farming

[MistressOhm]

2 minutes ago, Krimson said:

I have a tendency to forget that AFK farming exists, because I only do it by accident. Ask my cat about that. 

 

When your cat is a better farmer than you are.... /s

[ivanhedgehog]

49 minutes ago, MistressOhm said:

 

Ennh?

 

Entitlement :  the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

 

 

some people are entitled to some things. its the FALSE sense of entitlement that is the problem.

[arcane]

13 minutes ago, Krimson said:

Ask my cat about that. 

My favorite CoH cat moment tho is when I woke up to find that my cat had been typing… in English!

 

[PeregrineFalcon]

3 minutes ago, arcane said:

My favorite CoH cat moment tho is when I woke up to find that my cat had been typing… in English!

What language does your cat normally type in? German? French?

[arcane]

10 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

What language does your cat normally type in? German? French?

Wingdings for all I can tell

[MistressOhm]

Just now, PeregrineFalcon said:

What language does your cat normally type in? German? French?

 

Cat, of course.

 

 

 

[scottocamp]

19 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

It is a small community.  Whether or not folks who are unsettled by changes to the game "deserve" to be unsettled - I doubt there is much good to be served by mocking them.  

 

Irrationally upset customers are still upset customers.  I don't run AE missions - but rather than taking away from AE why not just add more to the regular game?  The new ToT monsters are clearly pulling people out of AE in a much more positive manner than reducing rewards in AE.  With much less gnashing of teeth.  Except for the teeth gnashing by the monsters of course.

 

 

[Seed22]

I still farm just fine, but yeah this forum community is laughable lately. Better than WoW pfft 😛 seems to me y’all are almost twins with their community

 

I hate doomsaying. I really REALLY do, but I give it another year TOPS before the community becomes too toxic to sustain, at this rate at least.

 

***This doesnt mean the game will be shutdown, what I think will happen is the devs will have to have a ‘Sit-down’ talk for the community ***

Edited October 20, 2022 by Seed22