Thoughts on the new Halloween EBs

[mechahamham]

Greater difficulty and planning in Trick or Treating! This is fantastic. I'm truly glad that you've added new content to this event, HC devs!

 

That said, I feel like the bosses need at least a little balance pass. Yeah, a lot of people use the Peregrine Horror Hotel to get all their ToTing done and depend on the league to keep them alive while fighting multiple purple EBs at once. However, at least some of us Trick of Treat for the sake of Trick or Treating. Solo or in small groups.

 

It's in these situations, especially between 25-35 that the imbalance of these elite bosses becomes apparent.

 

All five of the bosses have a 'trick' required to fight solo. The Crone Matriarch requires extra accuracy or to-hit to get through her hurricane. The Mummy is best defeated from range since he uses ridiculously powerful super strength attacks, and if you can't deal with with his Unstoppable phase, you have to kite him. The Spectre requires that you have extra status protection... breakfrees. The Vampire requires the ability to deal with his lifetaps. The Spectral Werewolf requires a balance of all the above.

 

At 25, however, these enemies can all use their most powerful attacks... including things like the Mummy's uppercut attack that can two-shot a LOT of characters-- even scrappers.

 

The best method for dealing with EBs, inspiration loading, is only partially effective. A tray of 25 inspirations may or may not last in a fight against the bosses. Additionally, the bosses spawn so often that it's not really possible to 'work up' your inspiration tray by collecting and combining inspirations like you would in a mission with an EB as the end boss. This means 'door-to-door' ToTing over a large area is often interrupted by frequent trips to an inspiration vendor.

 

The EBs seem to use the Mission Architect versions of the powers... meaning that they don't have any 'tells'. There's nothing to let you know you need to GTFO before Mr. Mummy uses his uppercut.

 

The second-best method for dealing with EBs, using temp powers like Shivan Shards or Envenomed Daggers has the downside of requiring a bit of fore-planning and effort.

 

The long and short of it is you can't just wade into ToTing at 25 without fairly frequent KOs, and, so far as I know, there's no way to turn those particular elite bosses off if you're over 25. (I'll test this just to be sure. Edit -- Tested this and no, there doesn't seem to be any way to turn these EBs off in Noteriety settings.)

 

Things that can be done to balance this:

 

First, allow players to turn off the EBs via the usual difficulty settings. This has the benefit of allowing a player to 'build' an inspiration tray and then turn on the EBs when they're prepared to face them.

 

Second, add emotes into the EBs' attack patterns to act as 'tells' so players can learn to proactively deal with those 'instant' defeat attacks.

 

Finally, and I feel that this is the most important, scale those attack availability with level. The Mummy at 25 shouldn't have all its most powerful attacks, but at 35, it's a lot more reasonable for him to have them all.

 

All that said, I TRULY enjoy the new content! Kudos, hardworking devs! I hope you continue to add and improve content like this! Thank you for your hard, unpaid work!

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by mechahamham

[mechahamham]

I was playing with temporary powers to see if any of them were particularly effective... The mummy can one-shot a summoned snow beast at level 29! Shivan Decimators seem to do a bit better, but can still be killed in a fight with the Mummy or Werewolf, even if you're blasting from range.

Edited October 23, 2022 by mechahamham

[Seed22]

ToT’ing is a mindless activity that’s meant for casuals like myself. I dont think Thats changed
 

i view the monsters as a take em or leave em. Doesnt seem to me anyone’s planning around them. Mow ‘em down like everything else unless you’re solo; then mow or run 🤷🏽‍♂️

 

 

Only thing I hate is aether is still worthless in the market thanks to these things. That’ll correct once it’s over though so I’ll just wait

Edited October 23, 2022 by Seed22

[MistressOhm]

3M = worthless :  This tells you all you need to know about the market economy at the moment.  

 

I had an old friend (someone whom I teamed with all the time on Live) roll up a new character, and we decided to do ToT'ing in Kallisti with them as sidekick.  We got into a group, then that group joined a league, and next thing you know I've lost track of how many of the EB's we've dealt with.   They dinged 25, leveled up at the end of the night, and 10 PAP's drop into their salvage.   Even at the current price, that's 30m inf for them to get started on slotting their build.  Nothing to sneeze at, esp. if we create all the IO's needed rather than outright buy them.  

 

Two things that are different about these EB spawns from 'regular' ones - you don't have to defeat them to complete an objective, and you're not on an enclosed map with the door at the other end.  There is NO shame in running away if you're overmatched. 

[Clave Dark 5]

The devs have already said the EBs weren't supposed to spawn for solo ToTers, and that programming bug will be fixed for next year (just no time to get it done right now).

[Snarky]

I think they are….haunting.

[High_Beam]

The Artisimal Mummies are effing relentless in their pursuit which alone is fun as eff.  When one is on my hinder I cant help but keep saying "Coin" like the one from Scooby Doo.

Coin!  Coin!

[Seed22]

18 hours ago, MistressOhm said:

3M = worthless :  This tells you all you need to know about the market economy at the moment.  

 

I had an old friend (someone whom I teamed with all the time on Live) roll up a new character, and we decided to do ToT'ing in Kallisti with them as sidekick.  We got into a group, then that group joined a league, and next thing you know I've lost track of how many of the EB's we've dealt with.   They dinged 25, leveled up at the end of the night, and 10 PAP's drop into their salvage.   Even at the current price, that's 30m inf for them to get started on slotting their build.  Nothing to sneeze at, esp. if we create all the IO's needed rather than outright buy them.  

 

Two things that are different about these EB spawns from 'regular' ones - you don't have to defeat them to complete an objective, and you're not on an enclosed map with the door at the other end.  There is NO shame in running away if you're overmatched. 

30mil should get them some  attuned yeah, and definitely the popular uniques(except miracle. That one’s weird sometimes.). 
 

The market itself is terrible to be honest, my builds went on average up 200mil in cost, which is insane

 

*I do participate in buy-it now prices though :P

[Player2]

Thoughts on the Halloween EBs:

 

Spectral Werewolf is an interesting combination.  It's a werewolf.  It's a ghost.  It's both!

 

Makes me wonder why we didn't get other combo monsters.

 

Vampiric Crone - it's a vampire and a witch.  Seriously, where are the female vamps in this game??

 

The mummies are fine without a combo because they're actually new.  We have other undead like zombies and such... about time we had something zombie-like that's more powerful.  Still, there seems to be no in-between ground on the corporeal undead.  Zombie minions and Mummy EBs.  Where are the Ghoul lieutenants and Lich bosses?  I guess there's vampires, but I've always felt like they more stand apart from the more mindless undead.

 

That's all I've got in my head on this matter...  for now.

 

[BurtHutt]

It's nice to see something new and it works for me. I like it. Bravo.

[starro]

it was a good addition.  Added some variety to familiar TOT and got wiped off the map a couple times.   Its been a long time since I saw TOT team wipes.

[AlwaysAPrice]

I really enjoy the EBs, they look cool and put up a decent fight, but I've only been ToTing either solo on tricked out 50s who can handle them or in PI/GV leagues. The couple times I have run into them on lowbies have not been so fun and as a result I end up only ToTing in teams/leagues on anything lower level. My hope is, rather than disabling the EBs for soloists altogether, maybe in future they can tie it to the Solo EB/AV difficulty toggle so those who can handle them alone can switch that on to continue to encounter them solo and everyone leaving it at default doesn't have to worry about it on their own.

[MistressOhm]

Next year, they're making a zombified Lt. Tendaji spawn from doors randomly... as an AV.

[mechahamham]

22 minutes ago, MistressOhm said:

Next year, they're making a zombified Lt. Tendaji spawn from doors randomly... as an AV.

 

For as often as I do my ToTing in RWZ, that'd actually kinda fit.

 

That said, I would absolutely drone him every time he spawned! (The Horror Hotel League probably wouldn't even notice him. Or he'd try to spawn in this hospital due to door overload and get droned.)

[starro]

12 hours ago, MistressOhm said:

Next year, they're making a zombified Lt. Tendaji spawn from doors randomly... as an AV.

 

Halloween event:  All the dead lore heroes start coming back.  

 

Edit:  My inspiration an old favorite Legion of Super Heroes where the dead heroes are brought back by Glorrith and Mordu

Edited October 25, 2022 by starro

[High_Beam]

15 hours ago, Player2 said:

Vampiric Crone - it's a vampire and a witch.  Seriously, where are the female vamps in this game??

They are in AP Role Playing Cat Girls.

[High_Beam]

1 hour ago, starro said:

 

Halloween event:  All the dead lore heroes start coming back

OMG!  That would be freaking awesome!

[Player2]

2 hours ago, starro said:

 

Halloween event:  All the dead lore heroes start coming back

Riktified Hero-1 looks like a zombie.

[Luminara]

23 hours ago, Player2 said:

Seriously, where are the female vamps in this game??

 

@Snarky's girlfriends are in Canada.  You'll have to settle for succubi.

[Snarky]

On 10/24/2022 at 1:49 PM, Player2 said:

 

Vampiric Crone - it's a vampire and a witch.  Seriously, where are the female vamps in this game??

 

Ghost Widow is THE Undead Femme Fatale.  No others need apply

[Player2]

29 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Ghost Widow is THE Undead Femme Fatale.  No others need apply

She needs a loyal following of vamp girls.

[mechahamham]

I've noticed some further oddities. Sometimes the Crone Matriarch just doesn't agro, especially if you attack from range. She just sits by the door she ran out of and soaks up punishment.

 

Also, the 'I'm being griefed' code seems a bit wonky, again, especially if you attack from range or manage to use knockback against the EBs. I had a Hollow Reaper run half-way across Founder's Falls from me and then despawn just before I could KO it. This has happened to Crones and Vampires I've fought as well.

[MistressOhm]

1 hour ago, mechahamham said:

I've noticed some further oddities. Sometimes the Crone Matriarch just doesn't agro, especially if you attack from range. She just sits by the door she ran out of and soaks up punishment.

 

Also, the 'I'm being griefed' code seems a bit wonky, again, especially if you attack from range or manage to use knockback against the EBs. I had a Hollow Reaper run half-way across Founder's Falls from me and then despawn just before I could KO it. This has happened to Crones and Vampires I've fought as well.

 

I posted a Bug thread wherein I was wondering why the EB's would suddenly bug out/despawn without a defeat, and it turns out ALL of the door spawns are running on the same code, EB's as well as the small fry.

 

1)  They exclusively aggro on the door clicker/team, so as to not go after randoms nearby.  This is a hard lock, tankers cannot taunt them away.  

2)  If for any reason they cannot execute an attack for 60 seconds (mezzed, drained, held, feared, ragdolled into the scenery, out of range, LOS blocked), their Attack mode expires and they shift to "I'mma Leave Now" mode, which is 20 seconds of finding/moving to a nearby door, and if they can't reach it, they immediately poof once that 20 seconds is up.  This is how you can run away from them and they'll only chase you for a minute and then give up.  

 

In your case, if you're far enough away that the Crone cannot attack you, she'll sit there. Most of her stuff is up close, as she's a Storm Controller with some Electric attacks.  Not sure why she wouldn't try and fly over to get into range though, unless there's something preventing her from doing it.  

 

My tactic to take these on have been to launch a nuke/end drain attack, then throw on a Slow/-Fly debuff and pound them into submission.  Solo, it's often the case I do TOO good a job nerfing their attack chains, and the 60 seconds expires between attacks and they poof on me shortly after that.  If I'm on a team, they take enough damage that they don't last the full sixty seconds even if locked down. 

[mechahamham]

28 minutes ago, MistressOhm said:

2)  If for any reason they cannot execute an attack for 60 seconds (mezzed, drained, held, feared, ragdolled into the scenery, out of range, LOS blocked), their Attack mode expires and they shift to "I'mma Leave Now" mode, which is 20 seconds of finding/moving to a nearby door, and if they can't reach it, they immediately poof once that 20 seconds is up.  This is how you can run away from them and they'll only chase you for a minute and then give up.

 

This is probably how I got the Hollow Reaper to run away. I was fighting against it with a KB-heavy blaster... water/sonic. Between water's KD and sonic's KB and holds, it quit being able to attack me and decided to GTFO. This would be FAR less issue in a team than with a single, inspiration- and empowerment- loaded blaster.

 

These guys definitely need some work before the next time the event rolls past, but I'm still enjoying the variety. Clave Dark 5 mentioned that they weren't supposed to spawn for soloers, but that didn't make it in before the event started. I'm hoping that rather than completely disabling them for soloers, they'll let us turn them on and off with the noteriety settings for the next event.

[Player2]

Some aesthetic observations about the new EBs:

 

💯  The mummy looks as solid as it acts.  I could kind of see a lesser, non-EB mummy (like a lieutenant or just a regular boss) but with a skinnier body and maybe give it the zombie walk... but otherwise it would look just like the big guy.

 

👻  Spectral werewolf looks cool.  It is distinctly different from other ghosts and werewolves because it is both.  Green and transparent with ghostly aura makes this EB a distinctive werewolf that I don't think we've seen the likes of in any other medium.

 

💣  The crone matriarch actually seems pretty boring.  From a distance, she looks very much like the other coven regulars, specifically the minions, which can be a bit of a surprise if you weren't targeting her and she suddenly unleashes the storm on you.

 

💀 Hollow reapers are nightmarish clouds of indistinct darkness with skull and bony hands sticking out.  Pretty grim looking, but when they seem to lurch forward suddenly with what I'm guessing is titan weapon attacks, it looks even more nightmarish.  Love it.

 

🧛‍♂️  And the ancient vampire is perfect...  very classy in his all-in-black Dracula-esque attire, not like those shirtless weirdos from the 5th Column/Council... and the other Halloween Vampires who look exactly like the 5th Column/Council science vamps.

 

 

That said, I would actually love to see the Halloween monsters all show up a little bit more outside of Halloween.

 

Maybe now that the ancient vampires have awakened, they might take an interest (for better or worse) in the affairs of the 5th Column and Council due to their vampire members.  Would be interesting to see a mission arc where heroes are put on to some Council activity by an ancient vampire contact, giving heroes tips on the villains' activities in exchange for the heroes giving back some info on the Council vampires... and in the last mission, the vampire contact turns on you (and your team) because you know too much.

 

Wolves are territorial and crossing into another pack's territory seems like a go to move for a story, but instead of the Halloween monsters looking for intel on the Council, let's bring out the 5th Column trying to stay relevant.  They've learned about the spectral werewolves aren't think that those could give them an edge against the Council, so they've been poking around werewolf burial grounds.  The heroes are asked by a concerned citizen who fears what will happen if the 5th Column gain the ability to summon the ghostly werewolves to their side, but it's already too late.  Using some arcane relic, they've already begun forcing the ghostwolves to work for them and the heroes will have to put them down... and ultimately retrieve the relic so that the villains can't keep doing this.  Of course, the final mission is to deliver the recovered relic to somewhere safe... at which point the heroes will be double-crossed and attacked by werewolves and spectral werewolves alike so that knowledge of their summoning can't be shared around further.

I could see the Cabal witches of Croatoa taking an interest in the Coven witches of Halloween, perhaps looking to recruit old blood into their faction to boost their ranks... and it has people in the know around Croatoa worried that an alliance between the Cabal and Coven could become the greatest threat anyone's ever seen (obviously not, but worrying about witches teaming up sounds dramatic).  Heroes are sent to investigate a couple meetings, maybe the first one against the Cabal who have stolen some relic from Azuria (because everyone steals from her) that you need to get back, and you find that they were using it to as a bargaining chip to try and bring in some of the Coven members who will be on site for the boss fight.  Next mission maybe delving into that underground Croatoa map with the cauldron, and fighting Coven witches to get to the end only to find they've captured a high ranking Cabal member to torture for info because they're not happy with the Cabal's interest in recruiting from the Coven.  Ultimate showdown at the end of the arc will be witch vs witch vs heroes free-for-all.

 

Mummies...  I don't know, maybe something to do with Circle of Thorns disturbing some ancient burial grounds.  You have to stop them, but the dead there don't care if you're villains or heroes trying to stop the villains... so the mummies come in ambushes to wreak a little havoc every now and again.  Final fight in the last mission will have multiple mummy EBs rise up from their graves to attack as the heroes attempt to return some cursed object that would ultimately unleash an apocalyptic mummy curse on the city.

 

Hollow reapers are just grim reapers that come out to play at Halloween.  But maybe have a solo mission or a short arc about either someone dying or attempting to be resurrected, and the reapers don't want heroic interference in the natural order things in this particular death... so they'll be a fun ambush in the final fight after dealing with whomever else was involved in the mission.  I don't know, it's late.  Make something up.