empath offender

[Lusiphur Malache]

I know I'm not the first, nor will I be the last, but trying to make a empath/dp offender.  I'm not going to tell you where I'm at, other then lvl 22, to get ideas moving forward, or to see where I might have already made a mistake.  Feel free to tell me I'm ice skating uphill because I might agree with you.  If dual pistols was the wrong direction to start with let me know because it ain't to late to start over.

[smnolimits43]

what exactly are you looking for, a build ?? I have like 5 or 6 Empaths.  To be honest i have six slotted all my empath powers, except Resurect and Clear Mind, which have the basic slot.  None of my empaths have ever reached 50.  Except my main character, Lady Grams.  Who isn't a defender at all, but a Ninja/Empathy MM.  I'm actually curious, if anyone else 6 slotted their RAs ?? and Adrenaline Boost ??  Most people are looking for Shields, Ice, Fire, Sonic, and Forcefields.  

[Linea]

DP is a very FUN set, but it is also near the bottom of the list for Damage unless it's Heavily Procced.   I personally don't do (many) Proc builds.  Someone else like @Bopper or @Dahkness could maybe help with that.   Or you could go find their builds and steal their DP half to weld onto your Empath half.

 

I would recommend Emp/Ice or Emp/Fire.  I did my offensive empath as Emp/Fire on a completely sacrilegious build.  Aka, most empaths tell me how horrible wrong I went and then burn me at the stake.

 

Hopefully one of the following will help give you some ideas or directions to pursue.

 

 

This is mine.  One build fully offense, one a more traditional Green Machine style build.  Neither have been updated since, and could probably use a refresh.

 

 

Here is Voltak's, and his is a much more tradtional support build, but still capable of offense.

 

 

Here is Lex Talion's version, but I'm not sure if his build is posted in there or not. I did not see the build at first glance just now.

 

Last are two nearly ancient armored builds.  Neither are going to be nearly as strong offensively as a good proc build, but both have very heavy self-armor.  They are fairly standard Linea builds.  Personally I'd probably say try the one that has Rune at level 20 for status protection.   No, it's not perma, its not even perma when you get older and start rotating it Rune/Hybrid/Rune/Demonic ... but it will still make you very durable and give you some options.

 

 

Emp DP - Beta 1 - [i25].mxd Emp DP - Linea 1 - [i25].mxd

[Doomguide2005]

     Never had a Empathy/Dual Pistol character.  I don't even recall creating one in Mids which would make it an unusual case for me.   Probably the game shut down before I got around to it as I had pretty much every pairing possible in Mids as of i23 and the majority being leveled in game, many of those at 50.  Or maybe I'm just forgetting.    But as @Lineasuggests I'd find a solid DP defender build and add it onto the Empathy primary.  Would make a very solid foundation.

    I don't recall ever 6 slotting Recovery Aura.  The only reason to do it would be for the set bonuses.  And I have seen folks doing it in recent builds.  But for +recovery most builds are made very endurance sustainable by the base unenhanced recovery value provided.  There's probably a few proc Monster builds out there that might still run dry but +200% on most characters is plenty.  I typically slot it 1×rchg, and 2× endmod/rchg and I'd probably trim it back to 2 +5 boosted endmod/rchg as I rework builds.  Adrenaline Boost is routinely 5 slotted in current builds (5×Panacea) dropping the prior 6th option when nukes became crashless.  My attacks would be 6 slotted before other things typically, most of the heal powers see 5 including RegenAura (Panacea or Doctored Wounds) while one power will get 6 slots to hold Preventative Medicine.  I rarely took Resurrect (ditto on AP) but that was prior to Hardmode being a thing.  Fortitude most commonly sees 3 slots (2 Membranes and 1 LotG 7.5 rchg) but I've used other schemes up to and including 6 slots.

 

Edit:  pretty much where you see me mention Panacea you can sub in Doctored Wounds as a less expensive version and @Voltak's build uses Doctored Wounds preferentially for, if I understood him correctly, the set bonuses.

 

Edit 2:  Going to be a lot redo in Mids and potential respecs over the changes in when the primary and secondary powers can be chosen.  

Edited October 25, 2022 by Doomguide2005
Afterthoughts

[Psyonico]

Also kind of depends on what you mean by offender...  Some Empath Offenders still take Heal Other/Absorb Pain/Resurrect, while others find most of those unnecessary.

 

These were the original Green Machine (all empathy offender) build requirements, I should note they don't mention IOs because this SG is from well before the Invention System existed and were just never really updated since then.

 

Heal Aura - required, 3 heal recommended, no recharge or endredux needed
Heal Other - not required
Clear Mind - required by level 20
Fortitude - required pick at level 12, slot with 2 defense at a minimum
Recovery Aura - required pick at level 18, slot with three recharge as soon as possible
Regeneration Aura- required pick at level 26, slot with three recharge as soon as possible, slot 3 heals in as well.
Adrenalin Boost - required pick at level 32, slot with three recharge as soon as possible, strongly recommended to slot 2 heal, 1 endmod as well.
Blast Powers
Slotted Attacks are required, this is a project that is expected to kill things.
Your blast nuke is a required pick at level 38. Don't worry, no end drop will bother you.
Pool Powers
Hasten - required by level 18, 3 slotted
Assault - required by level 24
Tactics - required by level 24 (3 tohit buffs)

 

I would like to point out that Empathy Offenders work best in teams.  The more empathy offenders you have on a team, the better each individual empathy becomes, assuming you follow the correct buffing directions (which I can't seem to find at the moment.)

[Doomguide2005]

On 10/25/2022 at 7:50 PM, Psyonico said:

Also kind of depends on what you mean by offender...  Some Empath Offenders still take Heal Other/Absorb Pain/Resurrect, while others find most of those unnecessary.

 

These were the original Green Machine (all empathy offender) build requirements, I should note they don't mention IOs because this SG is from well before the Invention System existed and were just never really updated since then.

 

Heal Aura - required, 3 heal recommended, no recharge or endredux needed
Heal Other - not required
Clear Mind - required by level 20
Fortitude - required pick at level 12, slot with 2 defense at a minimum
Recovery Aura - required pick at level 18, slot with three recharge as soon as possible
Regeneration Aura- required pick at level 26, slot with three recharge as soon as possible, slot 3 heals in as well.
Adrenalin Boost - required pick at level 32, slot with three recharge as soon as possible, strongly recommended to slot 2 heal, 1 endmod as well.
Blast Powers
Slotted Attacks are required, this is a project that is expected to kill things.
Your blast nuke is a required pick at level 38. Don't worry, no end drop will bother you.
Pool Powers
Hasten - required by level 18, 3 slotted
Assault - required by level 24
Tactics - required by level 24 (3 tohit buffs)

 

I would like to point out that Empathy Offenders work best in teams.  The more empathy offenders you have on a team, the better each individual empathy becomes, assuming you follow the correct buffing directions (which I can't seem to find at the moment.)

     The next Empath on the team list is the target of Adrenaline Boost.  No exceptions, this was necessary on SO builds to make Hasten essentially perma, ~170% of the needed 175% global boost.  The next two Empaths down the team list receive Fortitude.  More is optional but those first two should always be covered (on teams of 3 or more this means everyone is at or extremely close to the softcap of 45%.  Note 2 targets may be maintained at Fortitude's base recharge.  The Auras were fired in waves designed to have a minimum 2 sets of Auras active at all times on a team of 8 post 32nd.

Merryl's post (RO Network forum) has links to Tek's more detailed post of buff orders and timing of the waves dependent on level and team size.   

     And yes full teams of Empaths are extremely strong.  You could literally 4 slot your attacks with with 2+5 boosted damage IOs and 2+5 boosted recharge (no accuracy, no endred needed and decimate +4 foes non-stop with essentially no risk of defeat.   I've never seen a team of 6+ high end IO builds but any Hardmode foes would definitely need every dirty trick/auto-hit power to hope of slowing them down much.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Doomguide2005
Clarity

[MonteCarla]

 

I made a Empath/Energy offender a while back, just to see that I could solo effectively, and I did.

Any Defender can get a decent Def from the Fighting pool, Manouvers and Hover/CJ, and that plus the self heal and Regen Aura for tougher fights kept me alive easily. (And Energy's KB helped too)

Set Bonuses were focussed on recharge mainly, with a bit of Ranged def thrown in where I could. For other blast sets, swap powers out as appropriate, but the aim id to have a Tier 2/Tier3/Snipe attack chain with a couple of AoEs.

These days with the new power unlock levels and not needing to take the Tier 1 Blast, my build might look a bit like this:

 

1 Healing Aura   (Prev Med * 6)
1 Power Bolt     (Deci or Thunderstrike)
2 Heal Other     (5 x Doctored Wounds)
4 E Torrent      (Vig Assault x3 + 2 Dam/*)
6 Hover          (LotG unique) +3 Def
8 Kick
10 Power Burst   (Defender's Bastion)
12 Fortitude     (LotG Unique + 5 x Red Fortune)
14 Tough         (Steadfast & Glad Armor unique IOs) +6 Def
16 Sniper Blast  (Manticore)
18 Recovery Aura (3 x Rech IO)
20 Weave         (LotG) +8  Def
22 Regen Aura    (3 * Rech I/O)
24 Hasten        (2 * Rech I/O)
26 AB            (2 * Rech I/O)
28 Explosive Blast (Vig Assault x3 + 2 Dam/*)
30 Nova          (Obliteration)
32 Manouvers     (LotG) +5.5 Def
35...

 

Def: 22.5% + 6-10% ranged
Rech: 66 - 72% ish

I still contributed to teams really well with Fortitude and AB having good recharges, and the auras uptimes being around 2/3 of the time.

[Wavicle]

I recommend going with Pain instead of Empathy.

[Linea]

15 hours ago, Psyonico said:

I would like to point out that Empathy Offenders work best in teams.  The more empathy offenders you have on a team, the better each individual empathy becomes, assuming you follow the correct buffing directions (which I can't seem to find at the moment.)

I've run solo at least three times now, on different servers.  However, I've also run multiple pairs, and they definitely work better with at least a pair.   It probably hits 'optimal' with a trio.

 

[Doomguide2005]

1 hour ago, Linea said:

I've run solo at least three times now, on different servers.  However, I've also run multiple pairs, and they definitely work better with at least a pair.   It probably hits 'optimal' with a trio.

 

Matches my experience as well and with IOs its easy to reach levels of defense that make a single Fortitude cap your defenses making duos that much more effective.  Add in PB/PBU, epics and incarnates and now pairs can hit incarnate cap defenses all while still having great recharge needing for cycling Auras and Nukes.

[Doomguide2005]

12 hours ago, Wavicle said:

I recommend going with Pain instead of Empathy.

     Pain might be a better solo option.  Those debuffs are very sweet.  But Pains mitigation potential is significantly weaker than an Empaths especially when you start putting multiple copies of both teamed just as Empathy doesn't have the raw damage potential of Pain.  The biggest difference is outside of cycling Rebirth is there's pretty much no way for Pain to match Empathy's regeneration (2000%) with IOs whereas just about every other weakness on both can be largely made irrelevant with IOs.  Though stacked Soothing Aura might come effectively close when you assume it's in addition to Painbringer's buff.   

[kelika2]

Does it HAVE to be a Defender?

With the recent patch on power level selection you can get the good empath stuff at a lower level as a corr and still have solid damage.

 

Rock/Emp

Water/Emp

 

The motherearth puns are there but the rest is on you now

[MonteCarla]

Good point, kelika2

 

I'm currently part of a Fire Blast/Empath duo and its working wonders.

Empathy doesn't lose much on a Corruptor. Fortitude's defence buff is 75% less powerful, and the really good powers unlock later.

But as you say, it's not much later with the latest patch, now that we can have our Secondary Tier 9's even on the Penny Yin Task Force.

[Doomguide2005]

Corruptors are a stronger choice on large(r) team.  Fortitude and HO, HA and AP are all slightly weaker on a Corruptor but the Corruptor has Scourge and a higher damage cap.  On a small(er) team the higher values on Fort and the Heals plus Vigilance gives Defenders a relative buff.  I imagine the player though makes the biggest difference rather than which AT is the base.

[Lusiphur Malache]

I've played a couple corruptors to 50, one was a sonic/pain.  Kinda want to make a second defender and I know the grief empaths get, just want to see if there is a different better way.

[Doomguide2005]

On 11/1/2022 at 9:12 AM, Lusiphur Malache said:

I've played a couple corruptors to 50, one was a sonic/pain.  Kinda want to make a second defender and I know the grief empaths get, just want to see if there is a different better way.

Hard Mode.  Healing back health is the last resort in mitigation after most mitigation has failed.  Empaths excel in that area and Hard Mode is where you'll get the most demand for that sort of mitigation

[Lusiphur Malache]

I finally gave up on my empath offender.  Solo was too hard and grouping while easy was boring.  Sure I was pretty good at dps until a blaster or corruptor showed up.  I've moved on to a elec/elec defender wish me luck.

[FlammeFatale]

Or you could try a DP/Empathy corruptor instead of a defender. 

 

I have one on the test server, where I try various concepts to choose the next character I'll level to 50. This will be this corruptor, because it is extremely fun to play.

 

It has low DPS but is surprisingly survivable as long as I don't forget to pop a break free when both Melee Hybrid and Rune are on cooldown. Softcapped to Energy/Negative and Range.

Possibility to hover blast. 2 holds to perma-hold one boss.

 

It can solo Carnies and Arachnos at 54*8, which is kind of my litmus test to determine if a character is good enough. But beware it is very slow. It takes forever to clear the +4 bosses.

It is not what I would call a strong character. It is difficult to play. One has to keep track of cooldowns and also manage positioning. 

 

My focus is solo play. One could replace assault by adrenalin boost for a more team oriented character, but then it will solo even slower:

Corruptor - Dual Pistols - Empathy.mxd