Make respecs (or obtaining Respec Recipes) free and unlimited

[No Characteristic]

Suggestion: Make respecs (or at least obtaining Respec Recipes) both free and unlimited.

 

Reason: For quality of life. Currently, respecs are 'basically' free, for players who have a 50+ and can make large amounts of influence quickly. But new players, players without 50s, those with analysis paralysis or who are unwilling to use a limited resource, those who just really suck at making good builds the first (or second or third) time (like me), and those with very limited time to play would all benefit from unlimited free respecs. They would be able to solve minor problems with their build easier while putting their hard-earned influence towards better enhancements, without using up limited respecs which they might be planning to use at certain points of their leveling or to switch content goals. They would be able to experiment more freely with powers on a live server environment with teams rather than with the hassle of a beta server, alone. And since respecs are basically free anyway, can't they be actually free? Many other legacy MMOs eventually added this as a QoL feature.

 

Method of implementation and further suggestions: Obviously, up to the devs. I don't know what the code is like at all. Potential solutions just as an example might be:

• a 0 influence cost Respec Recipe from the P2W vendor (this may still carry the cost of the recipe, but thats ok)
• a free non-stacking respec token granted automatically (or at regular temporal intervals, not based on levelups)
• an option at Null the Gull or another NPC
• remove any cost from the /respec command

It has been pointed out that there may be some reasons to limit the implementation somehow to add a cooldown of once a day, and I don't see a problem with that if it wouldn't add too much work. Whatever the implementation, adding actually free, unlimited (or short cooldown) access to respecs or Respec Recipes would be a big improvement.

 

Potential problems (and counter-arguments): Respec Recipes won't sell for as much on the market (this seems minor, it's unlikely this is anyone's main income, and if it had a cooldown, they would still have niche use). Enhancement Unslotters become less useful (they are already much more expensive than respecs past a certain number, and the convenience alone will mean they keep selling). Respec trials will be run less (but only the Merit reward is repeatable past 3 uses of the respec reward anyway).

 

My own experience: As someone who has infrequently played this game on and off since live, is primarily a solo player, has made a ton of alts and never gotten any of them to 50 (to say nothing about never having been powerleveled) but has spent 100s of hours dicking around in the costume and base editors (0 income activities), I can say from personal experience that the 1 million influence Respec Recipes tend to go for on the auction house is not trivial for all players, that the free respecs currently available are not always enough, and that simple anxiety about access to respecs is not to be understated. The lack of free unlimited respecs has also held back players from more modern MMOs that I've shown this game, especially with its complicated build demands and the need to use a hero planner. Of course, players like us can simply be dismissed: we're not playing the right way. But one of this game's strengths is that it can be played many ways, much more so than many other MMOs both newer and older. So why not open it up even more?

 

Please limit replies that only include things like 'respecs are already basically free' or 'I've never even used all my free respecs'. Not all quality of life changes are targeted at all players. If this suggestion wouldn't effect you one way or the other, consider that other players might be benefited.

Edited November 22, 2022 by No Characteristic
made the second possible implementation more clear, I see it was causing confusion

[Rudra]

They can also just make a test server account and test builds there. Automatic 50, free enhancements. Build and test away. (Edit: Just join a team. No one else on the server? Ask your friends to pop over to the test server to help you test your build in a team environment.)

Edited November 21, 2022 by Rudra

[Rudra]

21 minutes ago, No Characteristic said:

a free non-stacking respec token granted automatically (or at regular intervals)

This already happens. I think every 10 levels. And they stack.

 

To be clear, I don't actually oppose the OP. I don't care about it either way. I'm just saying that in the 1st response, there is already a way to test out your builds. Even on a team. And in this response, you are asking for a more limited version of something that already happens.

[No Characteristic]

6 minutes ago, Krimson said:

If you are poor and need a respec, try asking for one in a channel. My last few builds have been zero respecs. I have spares. 

This isn't about me. I keep a lot of respecs in the inventories of my alts specifically to assuage respec anxiety. And this lovely community has been very generous to me, I could afford to buy a lot more if needed. This is a suggestion for a QoL change.

 

13 minutes ago, Rudra said:

This already happens. I think every 10 levels. And they stack.

 

To be clear, I don't actually oppose the OP. I don't care about it either way. I'm just saying that in the 1st response, there is already a way to test out your builds. Even on a team. And in this response, you are asking for a more limited version of something that already happens.

I'm aware of the fact that you get a free respec every ten levels, yes. I'm not asking for a more limited version of that. Maybe you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Put another way, I'm saying if you have 0 free respecs, you would automatically get 1 every day (again, that is only one possible implementation, it wasn't even originally my idea but from someone in the discord. My only idea was a free recipe from the P2W vendor).

 

As for the suggestion of 'make a character on Brainstorm', yes, this exists. I'm well aware and I've used it myself. It's nice, and it would still be used for testing things out if this were implemented. But again the suggestion isn't about it. It's about a QoL change for the normal live shards.

[Greycat]

Side note... 1 mil for a respec recipe is painfully easy to get. Do *anything* to get 10 merits, including exploring two zones (have you explored *all* of red and blue side, including the sewers?) Go to merit vendor. Pick up converters (30x... currently ~65k on the market) or two boosters (5 merits each, last 5 at 1m each.) Sell. Get respec recipe, with spare change left over.

 

(Which is funny because the *merit* cost for the respec recipe is 50. Seems a bit overpriced, given at 100 I can buy a winter recipe and probably get 20 mil... and buy multiple respec recipes if I wanted.)

 

(Also checking the market, of the last 5 respec recipes sold, two were at 1m, three were at under 500k.... and heck, I just put a bid in for the heck of it at 333,000 and had it filled in a few minutes while I was typing. This is a very easily attained price.)

 

And as I recall the candy cane vendor carries some as well... don't recall the price there. Probably also "expensive by comparison."

 

Honestly, I haven't heard this general hue and cry that more respecs were needed - we have a great deal now (the level-awarded ones, the respec trials, one if you do the redside patron pool, and if you don't mind stripping the other builds, three total builds - starter, level 10 and level 50 - to use.)

 

That said, even if someone *did* need more respecs, I don't think giving them away daily or free at the P2W vendor, or that anyone's needing them that rapidly for each character. A week's cooldown on a respec trial before you can get another respec? That, maybe. If someone's saying they'r edoing something where they need multiple respecs a day, yes, I'd shoot them toward Brainstorm.

[JasperStone]

14 minutes ago, No Characteristic said:

This isn't about me. I keep a lot of respecs in the inventories of my alts specifically to assuage respec anxiety. And this lovely community has been very generous to me, I could afford to buy a lot more if needed. This is a suggestion for a QoL change.

 

I'm aware of the fact that you get a free respec every ten levels, yes. I'm not asking for a more limited version of that. Maybe you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Put another way, I'm saying if you have 0 free respecs, you would automatically get 1 every day (again, that is only one possible implementation, it wasn't even originally my idea but from someone in the discord. My only idea was a free recipe from the P2W vendor).

 

As for the suggestion of 'make a character on Brainstorm', yes, this exists. I'm well aware and I've used it myself. It's nice, and it would still be used for testing things out if this were implemented. But again the suggestion isn't about it. It's about a QoL change for the normal live shards.

 

Not disagreeing 

....

But did I miss the huge outcry for this?

or am I misunderstanding the use of QoL change?

 

Keep in mind, I do not use Mids and tinker a good bit with a build.

Planned respecs at lvls 30ish 40 ish and 50....do not always use them.

 

Just curious how many respecs, on average, you do per character.

[No Characteristic]

From Quora via Lord Google: "'Quality of life' in the context of video games refers to features or aspects of game design that ensure that players have a smooth gameplay experience and do not get burnt out as fast. As games have a variety of genres, the form in which the QoL takes varies from game to game." I don't know where anyone is getting the idea that a QoL change must require a large outcry from the userbase. Many QoL changes are implemented unasked. Edit: And you don't often hear from players who experienced burnout. They just move on to another game.

 

I would direct everyone with responses to this suggestion that boil down to "I don't personally think it matters" to the end of my post, which reads:

1 hour ago, No Characteristic said:

Not all quality of life changes are targeted at all players. If this suggestion wouldn't effect you one way or the other, consider that other players might be benefited.

 

To reiterate once more, this is simply a suggestion for a quality of life change. I identified something in the game that I personally feel could use some modernization and posted a suggestion about it. That's all.

Edited November 21, 2022 by No Characteristic

[biostem]

There are already a myriad of free and earnable respecs in-game.  Touting something as "quality of life" does not mean that everything should just be given away for free.  Use the multitude of available options already in-game and consider that making builds even more trivial than they already are may not be a good thing...

[No Characteristic]

27 minutes ago, biostem said:

consider that making builds even more trivial than they already are may not be a good thing...

Okay, I've considered it, and I've concluded that no, it would be a good thing. Why would it not be good? More experimentation means people get better builds. More fun builds. More freedom to use just one character in a variety of content. Builds more suited to that content. You can make it seem scary by putting "..." at the end but I don't think it's scary.

 

People are still going to go to Brainstorm to try out their endgame builds anyway, because this isn't giving away 'everything' for free. It's not like I'm proposing all enhancements be free on live (I might. I could. But I'm not in this thread).

 

Edit: As an aside, I think this kind of change would benefit users who level through content much more than those who get power-leveled, obviously. It's possible to build characters for regular content that never respec, but it takes meticulous planning, luck, or just not caring you could be doing more damage from 1-30 or whatever. But even for players who meticulously use the current respecs they are given to optimize at every 10 levels, there are many smaller situations where someone might want to try an extra slot on an ability, but then think, eh, it's not worth it. In situations like that, a respec probably isn't worth it. But they could contribute better to teams if they respecced. A free respec would make that kind of thing trivial, and people would probably use it, even compared to the easily obtainable respecs that already exist.

 

I just can't see any downsides to people having better builds as the result of on the fly experimentation as they level. The better everyone's build, the better the team, right? Thus the 'quality' of 'life' goes up ⬆️.

 

And I also definitely can't see people booting up Brainstorm to test something as miniscule as one extra slot here or there at level 35 or something, can you? But again, speaking from experience (and there are even other threads about this on the suggestion forum front page!) one slot can definitely make you want to respec. This kind of experimentation would really only be encouraged by free respecs.

Edited November 21, 2022 by No Characteristic

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, No Characteristic said:

To reiterate once more, this is simply a suggestion for a quality of life change. I identified something in the game that I personally feel could use some modernization and posted a suggestion about it. That's all.

 

And you posted it in a forum, which means you're likely going to get some feedback, which need not be positive.

 

Honestly, you're using foundational arguments that I'd have to find questionable at best (such as the in-game cost of respec recipes, which I'd addressed.) For instance -

 

2 hours ago, No Characteristic said:

I can say from personal experience that the 1 million influence Respec Recipes tend to go for on the auction house is not trivial for all players, that the free respecs currently available are not always enough, and that simple anxiety about access to respecs is not to be understated. The lack of free unlimited respecs has also held back players from more modern MMOs that I've shown this game, especially with its complicated build demands and the need to use a hero planner.

 

As mentioned, the question of financing one is, indeed, trivial - without having to look up how to "play the market."

You state the free respecs "are not always enough" - according to who?

What anxiety about access to respecs? That might have been the case *early* on live, when those earned three were all you had and you didn't have alt builds - it *certainly* did exist then -  but I can't say I've picked up any "anxiety" about it through anything heard in game as a general vibe.

 

And "complicated build demands?" You can play this successfully on basic enhancements. People have done so since before it went live. There are no "complicated build demands" that aren't self inflicted, and certainly no "need to use a hero planner." In literally hundreds of builds, I've rarely if ever used one, past just playing around when bored.

 

When you're using these as arguments for a suggested change? The argument just isn't very strong.  And just passing it off as "Well, it's a QOL change" doesn't really help. For instance, having the last few enemies or last glowie show up on the map was a QOL change that fits that definition exactly (even if the implementation doesn't always work.) "Piles of free respecs?" Not so much. There's not really anything it addresses or fixes, given the current fairly easy availability of respecs.

 

  

12 minutes ago, No Characteristic said:

It's possible to build characters for regular content that never respec, but it takes meticulous planning, luck, or just not caring you could be doing more damage from 1-30 or whatever.

 

It takes none of the above. The only characters I regularly respec are my VEATs, and that's because I'm *forced* to at level 24.  If people *want* to plan out characters to whatever level, they can, but there's nothing in regular content or most TFs/Trials that require it... or "luck" or anything else.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Greycat

[biostem]

15 minutes ago, No Characteristic said:

And I also definitely can't see people booting up Brainstorm to test something as miniscule as one extra slot here or there at level 35 or something, can you?

But you can see them using an entire respec to do so?  You need to get out of your own mindset for a bit and look at things objectively.  Lessening the weight or value of builds and the decisions those entail does NOT make the game better, and if it's about "something as miniscule as one extra slot here or there", then they really don't need to use a respec on it.  Stop further trivializing what are already extremely minor decisions.

Edited November 22, 2022 by biostem

[No Characteristic]

6 minutes ago, Greycat said:

1 hour ago, No Characteristic said:

To reiterate once more, this is simply a suggestion for a quality of life change. I identified something in the game that I personally feel could use some modernization and posted a suggestion about it. That's all.

 

And you posted it in a forum, which means you're likely going to get some feedback, which need not be positive.

I posted it here so that the developers might see it, not to argue with users who would, presumably, argue that any change to the status quo regardless of what it is is going too far. That's kind of just a side effect.

 

If you don't like my arguments or reasoning, please feel free to only look at the orange part of the post. That's why I highlighted it. If this continues much more, I will simply delete the other parts of my original post that aren't that. It's the only part that matters.

 

To be honest, this kind of suggestion doesn't need a reason. It doesn't need my own personal testimony, or any sort of logic. It doesn't need arguments. The strongest, simplest argument for it is: it would streamline the game. If anyone on the Homecoming Team reads this, they'll either think 'yeah, it would streamline the game' or 'nah, it's not needed', and move on from there. I don't need anyone to agree with me (however, I wouldn't have even posted this on the forum if no one on the discord had agreed with me).

 

Players who have been playing the game for months, active on the forums as you all are, are most certainly not the kind of players that would be effected by such a change, so it's no wonder that you don't think it would improve quality of life. Everyone in this thread has over 100 posts, most over 1,000. It shows a certain kind of investment in the game. No disrespect meant. Just that at a certain point, it's hard to recall what the new player experience is like. And not everyone's brain works the same way as yours.

 

 

[Rudra]

Honestly, I was fine with the OP. Until the author started posting some of his/her defenses. From the way this discussion is going, this is sounding less like a QoL thing, and more like a min-maxer thing.

 

Look, @No Characteristic. If you want more readily available respecs despite the availability of them as already posted? That's fine. You made the suggestion. If the devs like it? They'll do it. However, you have to expect people are going to respond to the suggestion. Some may even disagree with it. You have to be open to that sort of feedback as well. Not just positive feedback. That's the point of feedback. Different people have different points of view and they will bring them up. Especially if there is already a method in the game to accomplish something being asked for.

 

One thing to bear in mind with this suggestion though? Is your presentation. Your arguments are devolving away from quality of life concerns to how to max out your character's efficiency, or effectiveness, or power. And the game does not call for maxed out efficiency, effectiveness, or power. If you want to keep others viewing this as a quality of life thing, then you need to focus on the quality of life aspect rather than the concern of how a single enhancement slot may not be as well placed for character efficiency, effectiveness, or power than anticipated.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to remove "k" from "accomplkish" so it is "accomplish".

[No Characteristic]

I'm literally an altaholic roleplayer who likes housing, I'm not here for min-maxing. Can you even be said to 'min-max' if you aren't level 50? That's 'max', right?

 

The kind of trivial respeccing I'm talking about isn't to do with min-maxing. The best example I can give you is a slot here or there making the difference between resting every pull, or resting every three pulls...the kind of thing that can kneecap a build just enough to make it annoying to parties, but not really impact its ability to level to 50.

 

[Rudra]

No. Being level 50 is not min-max. It is max level (not counting veteran levels.) Min-Max refers to the playstyle of eking out every last bit of power, utility, or effectiveness/efficiency from a character. You can min-max at level 1. Not so much in CoX where powers are limited, but in many games. In CoX, you can start min-maxing as early as level 10. Maybe even earlier. It is a question of when you start trying to maximize your character, not what level your character is.

[No Characteristic]

It was just a joke, I know what min-maxing is. Anyway, I don't really see it as a bad thing, but as someone who doesn't even understand enhancements other than Invention Origin and has never had a single set bonus in their life, I just thought it was laughable I was being accused of it.

 

Me, about to buy my first ever Numina's, reconsidering...oh no...what if I min-max?

Edited November 22, 2022 by No Characteristic

[Rudra]

Your comment didn't read as a joke. It read as a defense. Text has no body language or tonal indicators of jest. So if you don't include them, they are likely going to be read as not a joke.

 

And the readers of this thread will have no idea how you slot your characters. Nor is how you slot your characters particularly relevant to the discussion. I did not accuse you, @No Characteristic, of being a min-max player. I stated that your defense was devolving into a min-max presentation. I was trying to help you with your presentation, but you seem to think I am attacking you.

[Greycat]

4 minutes ago, No Characteristic said:

I posted it here so that the developers might see it, not to argue with users who would, presumably, argue that any change to the status quo regardless of what it is is going too far. That's kind of just a side effect.

 

Make assumptions about people, and use that to insult them. THAT'll win people over.

 

(I've made *plenty* of suggestions to change things in game since I started playing. That's pretty much the opposite of "any change to the status quo... is going too far." )

 

The "new player" game is *MUCH* easier than it was. And getting easier *still.* For instance... automatically getting respecs at every ten levels, and (if you do the patron pool arcs) unlocking a patron pool. Plus three trials. Plus alt builds. Or not having to burn a pool pick to get Fitness, or getting travel powers at level 4 without a prerequisite.

 

I deal with the "new player" experience because I answer questions and talk to them when I can. In game, out of game, whichever. New player, mid player, whatever, I don't tend to hear "I need a dozen more respecs." I think the most common new-player-respec question is "Where is Jack Wolfe?" if anything (and that bit of text needs to be fixed .)

 

 

8 minutes ago, No Characteristic said:

The strongest, simplest argument for it is: it would streamline the game.

 

In what way? There's nothing about it that would "streamline" anything.  Joining the train lines back in the day? That streamlined things. Having a power that lets you travel to any zone you've visited, or one that moves the entire team to a mission? That streamlined things.

 

There are a lot of things that *could* be done to make respecs themselves better. But "Make them free and unlimited" doesn't do that, or address any of the issues with respecs I could think of.  "Let me undo the last level selection?" Sure. "Let me save the slotting to make that part easier?" Sure. "Put the scroll bar back on the big enhancement tray" or "Put my enhancements back in my enhancement tray if I don't slot them, instead of deleting them?" Yep. "Let me see my enhancements while placing slots?" Would make sense, and probably combine two steps into one - very much 'streamlining' the process.   "Unlimited free respecs?" Not so much.

[No Characteristic]

1 minute ago, Greycat said:

In what way? There's nothing about it that would "streamline" anything. 

In the way that respecs would no longer be something that came from several different sources, with many caveats, limited offers, restrictions, market interactions with variable price, etc. Respecs would just be a thing you could do (as in many other MMOs), thus streamlining the game. If that's not streamlining in your eyes, I can't convince you.

 

And my bad if you took my comment about people on forums defending the status quo as an insult. Not aimed at you personally, it's just a well-observed internet phenomenon.

 

9 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I stated that your defense was devolving into a min-max presentation. I was trying to help you with your presentation, but you seem to think I am attacking you.

Well you went from being neutral, at best, to my suggestion to being against it because of my personal, largely irrelevant feelings on the matter. I didn't think you were attacking me, exactly, but it's not as if you're supporting my suggestion or agreeing with my reasoning. I told you more about me and my slotting to prove that, if this reads like an argument for min-maxing, it's purely coincidence, because I literally wouldn't know how. Anyway, if it supports min-maxing, that's fine by me. I don't see it as a problem. And since the game doesn't require min-maxing, not using unlimited respecs would also be fine. Are you worried that with a change like this, players would be bullied into respeccing all the time...idk, you've been here longer than me, do you think that would happen? I doubt it, personally, but like I said I'm mostly a solo player.

[Luminara]

Respec recipes are an inf* sink.  Not a large one, but every sink helps maintain the economy.  That's the purpose of allowing respec recipes to drop from NPCs, to give players something to sell to one another and bleed a little more inf* out of the game world.  If you want to remove that sink, create another to replace it.

 

Additionally, the test server is running year-round specifically to give players a place to test without limitations.  It's not an oversight, no-one forgot to shut it down after the last beta, it's intentionally left up so people can log in and try anything and everything, at every level, in every way they can imagine.  The HC launcher even streamlines the process to the point of making it one click, and Mids' builds can be imported directly into the game on the test server, so it really couldn't be more convenient.

 

Moreover, we're supposed to show some care and attention when making builds.  That's why there are only 15 free/earned respecs (16 for Soldiers of Arachnos), why respec recipes have a low drop rate, why respecs purchased from vendors have a high cost, why Real Numbers was implemented way back when.  Respecs were never intended to be used with abandon, to be something done on a whim.  A core philosophy of this game is that choices should have meaning, weight and consequences, and that includes whether or not to use a respec.  Turning respecs into an on-the-fly, at will activity would diminish that.

 

This also isn't in line with the spirit of the game that the HC team is trying to preserve.  Yes, they're updating things, changing things, but they're doing so within a framework which doesn't stray from the original flavor and essence of the game.  Unlimited free respecs is the kind of thing other servers do.  Given how unlikely it is that either Cryptic or Paragon would've implemented such a radical thing as unlimited free respecs, it's equally unlikely that HC will do it.

I also find some of the reasoning for this proposal to be suspect.  For example,

 

2 hours ago, No Characteristic said:

They would be able to solve minor problems with their build easier while putting their hard-earned influence towards better enhancements

 

this is wrong.  Respecs don't change enhancement types or categories, so the player going on a respec spree would not, in fact, save inf*.  Every time a power is changed, the slotting and enhancements used changes.  Drop a PBAoE, take a single-target melee attack, now your PBAoE enhancements can't be used, you have to replace them.  Remove all of the slots from a power and move then to another power and, unless that power is identical in slotting, the existing enhancements are useless and the newly slotted power can't be enhanced.  You're positing that this would be an improvement for new players, but new players won't have ten storage bins full of enhancements to play with, they'll be scrounging on the market, spending more on a single enhancement than they would've spent on a respec recipe.  And if these new players do have enough inf* to blow through multiple builds worth of enhancements in a frenzy of respecs, the cost of respec recipes isn't going to be a factor for them.

 

And here,

 

2 hours ago, No Characteristic said:

As someone who has infrequently played this game on and off since live, is primarily a solo player, has made a ton of alts and never gotten any of them to 50 (to say nothing about never having been powerleveled) but has spent 100s of hours dicking around in the costume and base editors (0 income activities),

 

you're saying that you spend most of your time not using your powers in combat.  Why do you need free unlimited respecs to move things around in a base or tweak a costume?  Respecs are intended to be used to fix problems in a build, and builds aren't relevant in the base or costume editors.  Which powers are slotted, what powers you've taken, these aren't conjoined with bases or costumes, so that's pretty sketchy justification for "needing" free unlimited respecs.

 

As someone who burns through respecs like they're discount holiday candy, and would benefit tremendously from an endless supply of them, I still can't see this as an improvement.  It decreases economic stability, removes a potential income source for players who sell respec recipes when they drop, lessens the value of making choices in the game, and obviates the primary reason for the test server being kept active outside of betas.  Your own arguments for this don't even support it.

[No Characteristic]

 

20 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Respec recipes are an inf* sink.  Not a large one, but every sink helps maintain the economy. 

Thanks for your reply. It seems you actually do think it would destabilize the economy, and to be honest maybe that is true. I wouldn't know. That's about the one actual criticism of it I can see being viable. As to whether or not it's true, I'll leave that to the devs, but I do think it's the one thing that would need to be considered. Personally, I don't think the instability caused by something that only gives 1mil profit a pop would impact much, given what other people have told me about the economy, so I'm still for it, but again, I think it's worth a look.

 

20 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Given how unlikely it is that either Cryptic or Paragon would've implemented such a radical thing as unlimited free respecs, it's equally unlikely that HC will do it.

This may also be true, but most MMOs that are still around today and highly successful either don't have respecs at all because they don't have specs at all outside of gear, or they have moved to free respecs. Take original WoW, that was very much a 'choices matter' type deal. But modern WoW, it's easy and free to respec. Choices matter more in your gameplay. Whether or not Cryptic ever would have implemented it, I can't say. I haven't played any of their still-living games beyond a toe-dip into Champions back when it was released. Still, I don't know if this is against the spirit of HC. To me it seems in line with the idea of making all costume pieces available at level 1, free costume changes, etc. But I don't know the team and I can't speak for them.

 

20 minutes ago, Luminara said:

you're saying that you spend most of your time not using your powers in combat.  Why do you need free unlimited respecs to move things around in a base or tweak a costume?  Respecs are intended to be used to fix problems in a build, and builds aren't relevant in the base or costume editors.  Which powers are slotted, what powers you've taken, these aren't conjoined with bases or costumes, so that's pretty sketchy justification for "needing" free unlimited respecs.

You're right lol. I don't only do those things, though. I want to get into content. It's just intimidating, in part because I make a build, it sucks, I run out of respecs, or realize that I need to spend a lot of money on better enhancements but I was slotting for common IOs, etc. When I first started playing Homecoming a bit ago, during the height of the lockdown, I only had my legacy knowledge from live about how enhancements worked, and on live I only ever got to like level 20. Back then I didn't have any friends that played the game until much later, and we only played it together a little bit before they all got bored and wanted to go back to other MMOs. Sorry for the life story...but I really do do content, too. I want to get to 50. In fact I have a great number of characters that I'd like to get to 50, to secure their names with the upcoming name release policy. I posted about that just to show that I'm not someone who has lots of influence lying around by default, even though I spend a lot of time in the game. It's not to say that that's the only part of the game I like or participate in. In actuality, I love the combat in this game. It's the main thing that keeps me coming back.

 

20 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Moreover, we're supposed to show some care and attention when making builds.  That's why there are only 15 free/earned respecs (16 for Soldiers of Arachnos), why respec recipes have a low drop rate, why respecs purchased from vendors have a high cost, why Real Numbers was implemented way back when.  Respecs were never intended to be used with abandon, to be something done on a whim.  A core philosophy of this game is that choices should have meaning, weight and consequences, and that includes whether or not to use a respec.  Turning respecs into an on-the-fly, at will activity would diminish that.

This seems to be true, from the original design perspective. And, speaking personally, entirely my own emotional bias here, I don't like game design like this! When I play an MMO, I don't want my every little choice to carry lasting consequence when it comes to my build. I especially don't want to be punished for not doing a lot of homework ahead of time. If I wanted every little decision I made to matter in a life or death way, I'd play a fighting game. But this kind of decisions-matter game design applied on live even to costumes to some extent. That's not true here, so I question if it has to be true for builds as well.

 

And as an aside, it seems people are saying I think this will only benefit new players. I primarily think it will benefit players who don't have a lot of influence, time, or max levels, for whatever reason. Whether or not they're actually 'new' is beside the point, I just think new players are one category of player that might find the change nice.

Edited November 22, 2022 by No Characteristic

[WumpusRat]

Respec recipes are cheap on the AH. A million or less. Know how long it takes me to get a million inf if I need it, even with lowbie characters?

 

About ten minutes.

 

My two "usual" methods:

1) Hop into one of the "level 1" AE missions and set it to tickets, rather than standard rewards. A couple of those can be done in under 5m with even a low-damage build (my record so far with a new necro MM is 2m1s), and you can get ~250-400 tickets per run. I do this all the time on my lowbie characters to get some starting cash after I do the first mission arc or two. Do a few runs until I get 1100+ tickets, use that to buy rare salvage, sell it, boom, my level-5 now has 1-2 million inf, and it took me about 10m.

2) Make a new character, level to 4 quickly (takes about 5-6m), buy flight as your level-4 power, zip around Atlas or Mercy and pick up all the badges to get the 5 merits. Use those 5 merits to buy 15 converters. Sell the converters on the AH. If they're going "cheap" and only about 50k each, that's still 750k. Which is usually enough to snag a respec. 

 

I don't have a "farm" character or anything, though I've tried a few of the big Council spawn maps at +4/8 with my invuln/SS tanker, and she does okay. Just kind of slow due to the lack of big aoe damage (foot stomp + cross punch and her incarnate aoe is all she's got), but she can still make about 100k every 60-90s just pummeling groups of Council dweebs.

 

While I can see the appeal for having unlimited freespecs, I just don't see the need for it. You shouldn't need to tweak your build that often, and if you do, you need to be out DOING something in order to have a reason to constantly be fiddling with it. Which means you should be earning inf anyway?

[No Characteristic]

4 minutes ago, WumpusRat said:

Respec recipes are cheap on the AH. A million or less. Know how long it takes me to get a million inf if I need it, even with lowbie characters?

 

About ten minutes.

Yeah, I'd agree with it being bout ten minutes (if you don't have any freespecs left). Maybe a little longer or shorter depending on the character. All I'm saying is that it shouldn't take even 10 minutes, since it's something that in other games is instant (minus all the time it takes to re-slot everything...).
 

When I played my warshade back in 2020, I only did regular content (okay that's not true, I did exactly one AE mission, not a fire farm.) And I bought maybe one set of Training Origin enhancements and one set of Dual Origins after that. I've never sent the character money from my now more profitable level 30 alts. She's level 24 now, I haven't played her at all since coming back. And she has a little less than 500,000 influence. I don't remember, but I'd guess at over half of that is a hand-out from a friend. Which is enough for one respec if I bid low and hope, two if I'm lucky or wait to let a bid for 200,000ish go through, which can take several days if you're trying to be that cheap, and exactly zero viable enhancements, only outleveled DOs. So that'd be all my money right when I'd want level 25 IOs or SOs. Now, you can say I was playing the game wrong back then to have only ended up with that much influence. And I definitely was. But that's not really my point.

 

(Also, I don't need advice on how to fix up my warshade, I now, only after I learned how to game AE as you describe, have plenty of respecs and IOs for her. This is just an illustration of how 'just playing the game' means that while you can still afford respecs, it's a significant chunk of change, even though that stops being true for most players past a certain point.) Personally, I just don't think players should have to learn how to game AE or do it even if they do know, over just playing regular content, to fund respecs. However, I do do it, and I try to make it as fun for myself as possible my making my own missions. Would I rather be out there doing regular content? I'd rather be in the sewers, to be honest (it's where I belong).

[Glacier Peak]

So this is another solution to a problem that already has many solutions? 🤔 

 

Respec trials which can be done infinitely apparently only 6 times(?), free respecs handed out after major power updates, respecs granted from Hero & Villain, Vigilante and Rogue, and Winter Packs, respecs which can be purchased on the Auction House, every 10 levels respecs are granted, not to mention the fact that each character has three builds which they are free to level as they please once they've obtained the required XP. Oh and the forced respecs for those who play the Villain Epic ATs.

 

I'll point out that I remember what it felt like to make permanent choices to a character before respecs were added to the game. I like the options I have now to change my character.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Glacier Peak

[No Characteristic]

18 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Respec trials which can be done infinitely

Unless I'm mistaken, respec trials are only repeatable infinitely for merit rewards, the actual respec can only be obtained only three times, once at Levels 24-33, once at Levels 34-43, and once at Levels 44-50. After that, you have to take the merit reward (28, 20, and 20 merits, respectively, according to the wiki for the 3 level ranges), which means repeating the latter two trials three to afford one Respec Recipe from the merit vendor for 50 merits, or repeating the first one twice (Edit: this is assuming you buy the Respec Recipe from the vendor, as you might if you are a new player, rather than something you can sell for more profit and buy the respec from the auction house, but I digress). Of course, you can do other content for merits as Wumpus pointed out. But I don't think this is the same thing as the respec trials being infinitely repeatable, and frankly I highly doubt it's faster than selling salvage from AE to obtain a respec. (Note, this could all be wrong, I've never done a respec trial as I quit the game right about when my warshade hit 24 last time, and this time around I've found AE farming to simply be easier than messing with them.)

 

 

So yes, you are right, it's a solution to a problem that already has many solutions. If implemented wholesale, with no cooldown, it would be a unifying solution to what is currently a problem with many solutions with many steps. If implemented with a cooldown, it would be closer to what you say, but still I think it would be the first layer solution for basically every respec. That's why I'd describe it as having a streamlining effect.

Edited November 22, 2022 by No Characteristic