Magic Staff Ranged Powerset Pitch

[StarWarrior01]

Hello everyone! Has anyone ever wondered what it would be like to have a Magic Staff Powerset? I've noticed several enemies and allies throughout the game wield magic (or tech) staves such as Vanguard Wizards, Fake Nemesi, and the Praetorian Carnival members and I can't help but wonder what it would be like for our player characters to be able to use such staves. I think part of the reason is because of the possible aesthetics of such a power set.

 

I hope everyone enjoys the pitch, and leaves their thoughts on it!

 

Special Effect: Arcane Power

The basic idea for this is something similar to the Staff Fighting powerset. Essentially, as you cast spells you build up 1/2/3 stacks of Arcane Power. As you do, the Arcane Power causes your attacks to inflict secondary effects. For the Tier 1 Cosmic Bolt the initial blast as well as the attack without any Arcane Power it just deals energy damage, but with stacks of Arcane Power the attack also adds a fire DoT that deals miniscule/light/medium damage for 1/2/3 stacks as well as a chance to lower the target's resistance.

 

Other powers could expend Arcane Power for more severe bonus effects sort of like Water Blast. Maybe the Tier 9, Mana Storm could be a Targeted AoE that deals Energy Damage with a high Fire DoT that causes a knock up effect on the enemies. With three stacks of Arcane Power, the attack has a magnitude 4 stun on all enemies caught in the blast

 

What do you all think of this? I know it's still somewhat bare bones, but I do like where the idea is going myself.

[MistressOhm]

It has definite potential! 

 

One of the things that I'm sure would be impossible without a much larger Dev workforce/budget, but if done could lead to a lot of such imaginative powers, is to decouple power effects from character animations.  We see a FEW animation variations in some powers (different snipe poses and so on).  But imagine being a Storm Summoner who instead of waving her arms about, uses a staff or cane?   Instead of an ice blaster projecting freezing water vapor from their arms or body, they wield a futuristic cryo-rifle?  Things like that.  The Animations exist for these things (how many have the Blackwand as a legacy power on their characters?) but it's a matter of figuring out how to tune the game engine to project effects from a prop rather than from the avatar itself. 

 

And the reverse is true.  Assault Rifle, only using something like Deadshot's gauntlets.  War Mace, but no mace, instead the character's hand has morphed to a metal studded ball and they're whirling it about like Energy Melee?   All kinds of possible variations.

 

BUT... we first have to figure out how to code it... and right now HC doesn't have the dev bandwidth to chase that down.

[StarWarrior01]

Well going with the topic of possible animations for the set I was thinking that the overall appearances would be sort of like a mishmash of various pre-existing staff related animations such as the aforementioned Staff Fighting or the Nemesis Staff, along with some magic effects akin to the Sorcery Power Pool. That way the devs could save on bandwidth and avoid having to start completely from scratch with some of the visuals. 

[Snarky]

you want a huge staff?  is it enhanceable?

[StarWarrior01]

Just now, Snarky said:

you want a huge staff?  is it enhanceable?

Hmm? What do you mean by that? Do you mean a big staff like the two handed ones used in Staff Fighting? Cause I was thinking something a little bit smaller, and I would imagine that some of the appearances for the staff could be Nem Staff, Black Wand, the Vanguard Staff that you see used by Vanguard Wizards, and the Carnival Staffs. Maybe also throw in the maces for the Arachnos Soldiers as a bonus. Does that answer the question?

[MistressOhm]

17 minutes ago, Snarky said:

you want a huge staff?  is it enhanceable?

 

-Bonk!- Off to horny jail with you, Snark old man.  😛  

[Shred Monkey]

Easy win... add staff animations options to all the non-weapon blast sets.

 

 

(note: don't forget to also give the option to place that staff on your back when not in use, because that'd just be pure awesomeness.)

Edited November 26, 2022 by Shred Monkey

[GM Impervium]

Threads of this nature belong in the Suggestions forum, so, moved 😃

[MHertz]

If we're talking about added animations for other sets, I'd go with

• staff
• magic wand
• ray gun
• casting with runes
• pushing buttons on techno-gauntlet
• eye beams
• breath weapon
• sword that shoots stuff

But then I realized that most of those just turn City of Heroes into City of World of Warcraft.

 

If there's going to be a staff set, it should be a powerset, not an animation.

[StarWarrior01]

4 minutes ago, MHertz said:

If we're talking about added animations for other sets, I'd go with

• staff
• magic wand
• ray gun
• casting with runes
• pushing buttons on techno-gauntlet
• eye beams
• breath weapon
• sword that shoots stuff

But then I realized that most of those just turn City of Heroes into City of World of Warcraft.

 

If there's going to be a staff set, it should be a powerset, not an animation.

Agreed, hence why I proposed it as its own power set. Does anyone think that the overall effects of the set are too similar to other pre-existing sets, or does it have enough unique potential to stand out on its own in terms of mechanics and not just the flashiness of the animations?

 

Also, since I am still actively workshoping the idea, what would you guys suggest for some of the mid tier powers? For the aim equivalent, I was thinking that like Water Blast it would grant 3 stacks of Arcane Power.

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

you want a huge staff?  is it enhanceable?

Yes, but only if you use blue or yellow "enhancements"...

[StarWarrior01]

20 minutes ago, biostem said:

Yes, but only if you use blue or yellow "enhancements"...

Okay, I feel like your referencing something, and I don't get it, and that's not fair.

 

In all seriousness the customization options for the staff are as I listed above in my third post.

[Snarky]

One of my big issues with costume weapons in game is they disappear.  For me I would never run it, just due to that factor.

[StarWarrior01]

8 minutes ago, Snarky said:

One of my big issues with costume weapons in game is they disappear.  For me I would never run it, just due to that factor.

Actually, a recent patch has changed that. You can now select an option in character customization to show the sheathed weapons, and it works for all of them to my knowledge, including ranged weapons.

[Clave Dark 5]

8 hours ago, Snarky said:

you want a huge staff?  is it enhanceable?

 

>>>>>>CLICK HERE NOW!!!!<<<<<<<<

 

Be envy of all Paragon City and Islands Of The Villain!

Edited November 27, 2022 by Clave Dark 5

[Player2]

I feel like this one could be combined under a number of handheld devices that project some kind of visual effect with damage and/or effects.  I like the idea of a wizard with a staff, but we've also had suggestions for wands in the past.  Some people will poo poo the idea because that makes the powerset inherently magic while most other powersets can fit any origin type.  To that, all I have to say is:  assault rifle and dual pistols.

 

Seriously, though, it's not like we haven't had tech wielders of wands in the comics (DC's Weather Wizard and Abra Kadabra come to mind).

 

So I'd suggest a powerset (or powersets for different ATs) that give the player different staves and wands and maybe a few other objects (like that handheld scanner device in the medicine pool) for the character to point and wave around with existing animations that we already have.  Make a blast set, a support set, and a control set for primaries and a blaster Manipulation and dominator Assault set.  That would make the collection of re-used animations be able to be used in both primary and secondary powers for blasters, controllers, corruptors, defenders, and dominators, as well as a secondary for masterminds.

 

As for effects...  make it a generic/mystic energy set for visual effects, and use the Dual Pistols ammo power as inspiration and make one of the powers something that lets the player choose a different thematic and secondary effects...  I'd recommend something that combines the 4 elements as we've never had a true general elemental with access to all the elements... just pick 2 elements with primary and secondary powers, and maybe you can get a third in your ancillary pool if something different is available for your AT.  

[Cybersbe]

On 11/27/2022 at 4:20 PM, Player2 said:

I feel like this one could be combined under a number of handheld devices that project some kind of visual effect with damage and/or effects.  I like the idea of a wizard with a staff, but we've also had suggestions for wands in the past.  Some people will poo poo the idea because that makes the powerset inherently magic while most other powersets can fit any origin type.  To that, all I have to say is:  assault rifle and dual pistols.

 

Seriously, though, it's not like we haven't had tech wielders of wands in the comics (DC's Weather Wizard and Abra Kadabra come to mind).

 

So I'd suggest a powerset (or powersets for different ATs) that give the player different staves and wands and maybe a few other objects (like that handheld scanner device in the medicine pool) for the character to point and wave around with existing animations that we already have.  Make a blast set, a support set, and a control set for primaries and a blaster Manipulation and dominator Assault set.  That would make the collection of re-used animations be able to be used in both primary and secondary powers for blasters, controllers, corruptors, defenders, and dominators, as well as a secondary for masterminds.

 

As for effects...  make it a generic/mystic energy set for visual effects, and use the Dual Pistols ammo power as inspiration and make one of the powers something that lets the player choose a different thematic and secondary effects...  I'd recommend something that combines the 4 elements as we've never had a true general elemental with access to all the elements... just pick 2 elements with primary and secondary powers, and maybe you can get a third in your ancillary pool if something different is available for your AT.  

I like this. I’ve been thinking the idea of a blasting staff capable of changing it’s elemental properties a la dual pistols could be a good way of killing both the “wizard’s staff desire and the “multi-element wizard” desire with one stone. As for the idea that it would be inherently magic… not necessarily. If it just uses a generic “energy” for non-elemental attacks, there can be roleplaying explanations for other origins. (Maybe you’ve upgraded your techstaff with flamethrowers, ice launchers, etc.) As part of this roleplay-friendly idea, I propose the set be named “Elemental Staff”.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Cybersbe

[Player2]

6 hours ago, Cybersbe said:

I like this. I’ve been thinking the idea of a blasting staff capable of changing it’s elemental properties a la dual pistols could be a good way of killing both the “wizard’s staff desire and the “multi-element wizard” desire with one stone. As for the idea that it would be inherently magic… not necessarily. If it just uses a generic “energy” for non-elemental attacks, there can be roleplaying explanations for other origins. (Maybe you’ve upgraded your techstaff with flamethrowers, ice launchers, etc.) As part of this roleplay-friendly idea, I propose the set be named “Elemental Staff”.

Exactly.  As I've said, there's no reason ANY origin couldn't be explained into such a set with a little imagination.

 

Let's do a comparison:

 

MAGIC

Wand:  "Duh!"

Dual Pistols:  "I have magic guns."

Assault Rifle:  "That's stupid.  I have magic powers (secondary set) that supplement my perfectly normal gun."

Necromancy:  "I use the dark arts to restore life to the dead... partially."

 

TECHNOLOGY

Wand:  "It's like magic, but it uses science!!"

Dual Pistols:  "What's hard to understand?  My guns are high tech devices that let me project death, destruction, AND mayhem."

Assault Rifle:  "State of the art, baby."

Necromancy:  "Using nanites, I'm capable of creating the illusion of magical reanimation."

 

MUTATION

Wand:  "I have the power... but I need this stick to focus it."

Dual Pistols:  My mutant power is to be an AWESOME marksman without even trying.  These guns, those guns... doesn't matter with what."

Assault Rifle:  My mutant powers are subtle (secondary)...  I prefer to rely on the big bang of my rifle and fall back on the powers as needed."

Necromancy:  "I was born with these cursed necromantic powers."

 

SCIENCE

Wand:  "You wouldn't understand, small-brain."

Dual Pistols:  "Science is responsible for my varied ammo types and other cool tricks."

Assault Rifle:  "Science made me a super soldier with abilities that enhance my deadly marksmanship."

Necromancy:  "Resurrecting the dead isn't so difficult... and one day I'll master it, but for now these crude zombies serve my needs."

 

NATURAL

Wand:  "See, the wand is magic... but I'm not.  Just like a gun is tech but you're just a natural born killer with it."

Dual Pistols:  "Hey, don't you talk about my guns like that.  They're actually enchanted... but it takes someone with natural skills to use 'em right."

Assault Rifle:  "I have trained myself to be so skilled that my ordinary gun seems magically empowered in my hands."

Necromancy:  "Look, I'm not a magic guy... not really.  I dabble in a lot of things, science and tech, and sure... a little sorcery.  Are these zombies magic?  Maybe... but I'm not.  I just did the research and learned how to make them rise up and obey me."

 

Origin is a tool for the players...  not a straightjacket that they must conform to, and anyone that tries to limit ideas because of origins is doing a disservice to all our imaginations.

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Player2
Added another inherently magical powerset for further comparison

[Rudra]

Like you said, there are several ways to use existing power sets with any origin. Running with your presentation but limiting interpretation to the listed primaries or animation?

 

Wand:

Magic: It's a wand. It's my arcane focus for using my spells (powers).

Technology: So what if it looks like a wand? This is a complex device through which I can control <insert primary power>. Here, let me explain the tech to you. *brain fries poor

         listener*

Mutation: I have the mutant ability to <insert power set>. This (arcane/science/tech/placebo) lets me better control my powers. Or would you rather die from my runaway power?

Science: The basic principles of how this works is simple. I control the (insert science-y sounding answer of choice).

Natural: This doohickey is convenient. I've trained long and hard to master its function. Behold the fruits of my labor!

 

Dual Pistols/Assault Rifle:

Magic: You ever wonder why I never have to reload? Mundane toad.

Technology: It's a gun. I like guns. And this gun is bleeding edge tech better than anything you will find in your average gun shop!

Mutation: I have a mutation that enhances my ability to percieve distant targets more accurately (or lets me control projectiles). This is my preferred method.

Science: I've modified this weapon. It (interfaces directly with my mind, or uses a non-conventional propulsion system, or pick your adaptation of choice).

Natural: I'm good. With guns. I have a natural talent for them (or trained to insane levels with them). Hey! Check THIS shot out!

 

Necromancy:

Magic: I specialize in death magic and manipulating the dead to serve my will.

Technology: I use (nanites or other technology) to make these things move and fight for me. The fact they used to be my <enemies/friends/other interest> just makes this so

          much sweeter.

Mutation: You may think this is a gross power, but it's what my power is. Get over it. And if you die? Maybe I'll add you to my collection for the insult.

Science: Undead?! Ha! What an ignoramus! No, my friend. They aren't "undead". They are quite alive, I assure you. Just not quite... themselves any more... Here, let me show you

         how this works.... *turns inquisitive victim into new zombie*

Natural: My race has a link to the world beyond. I just call some... help... from the other side. <or> I found this doodad. It's grisly, but it works. <or> (insert reason of choice).

 

And these are just some of the possible reasons or justifications a player can use for those 3. I'm sure there's myriad other interpretations to suit a player's whims as well.

Edited November 30, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to correct alignment.

[biostem]

A "wand" is basically just a shorter stick, and a "staff" is a longer one.  Modern day remote controls are shaped the way they are because it is convenient.  There is no reason, whether for aesthetic or other techno-babble reasons, that a device couldn't look however the creator of it wanted.  Right now, you could go out, and with enough skill, create a gun that looks like almost anything.  What I'm getting at is it's not the form that matters, it's the function it performs.  Heck, even in-game, we have Vahzilok and his science/technology based zombies, then the more traditional ones from the Banished Pantheon.  Just as we have magic, tech, mundane, and even some biological-looking mace or sword models, there's no reason we couldn't do the same for this hypothetical staff one...

[DreadShinobi]

I like the mention of the ability "mana storm" in the OP, @StarWarrior01. As a tier 9 power with some flavor, it could function like blizzard, but be a toggle that rapidly drains endurance, for up to 10-15 seconds at time, still with a long cooldown, but maybe with increased deployment compared to blizzard. For anyone that has played league of legends, think Anivia R. 🙂

[Rudra]

Personally, I think staff usage should simply be an alternate animation for the available power sets. And the undefined set currently proposed as a staff set could simply be a new power set with the option for staves in animation.

[Six-Six]

Not so much a new power, but I wouldn't mind porting the existing powers to wand/staff and guns/riffles. So basically the option to have the blast sets like elec, fire, ice, etc. be fired from a tool like a wand or staff. Similarly, arm or shoulder mounted cannons would also work. The only ones I don't see working off the top of my head would be AR and Pistols for the wand or staff. But almost all powers would fit nicely into a tech-oriented rifle weapon, hand-gun weapon, or wrist mounted weapon. The Clockwork and BCUs already have some sort of shoulder mounted firing mechanism, hence why I threw that in.

Last minute edit: orbs. wands, staves or orbs.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Six-Six

[JasperStone]

On 11/26/2022 at 3:00 PM, Snarky said:

you want a huge staff?  is it enhanceable?

I get emails for them all the time ...

[biostem]

8 hours ago, Six-Six said:

Not so much a new power, but I wouldn't mind porting the existing powers to wand/staff and guns/riffles

I know this may not be what you were going for, but I wonder just how wonky it would look to place some staff/wand weapon models in place of the rifles and pistols...