I want a new mouse, looking for suggestions.

[Lodestar_1977]

On 1/15/2020 at 2:30 AM, Call Me Awesome said:

I'll second this, I have the same mouse and it's a great option.  I also use a Razor Nostromo gamepad with 15 programmable keys under my fingers, a rocker pad under the thumb for movement and another two buttons for the thumb.  With all that I have Tray 1 mapped to the first 10 keys, the last 5 are spacebar for jump and 4 more for binds, usually any other powers I need easily at hand.  On the mouse I map the thumb buttons for a heal, aim, buildup and anything else I need to be able to access instantly.

 

With the gamepad and mouse I only need to go to clicking a power for toggles and other things I don't usually need in combat.

Do you find one negates the other?

 

I actually stumped up for a Corsair brown mx switch keyboard, and feel that may have been a waste if I use a multi button mouse or a keypad.

[Call Me Awesome]

1 hour ago, Lodestar_1977 said:

Do you find one negates the other?

 

I actually stumped up for a Corsair brown mx switch keyboard, and feel that may have been a waste if I use a multi button mouse or a keypad.

I'm not sure what you're asking here, I have the Nostromo under my left hand and it's used for movement forward/back/strafe left/right along with my attacks, travel power and jump.  The mouse is used for rotation and other buff powers are bound to the side keys.  I only use the keyboard for chat so I'm not touching it otherwise.

 

The rocker switch on the gamepad under my left thumb controls movement, the button just above the rocker is "Target Enemy Near", the button below the rocker is "Follow".  The buttons 1-10 are my tray 1 powers, button 11 is spacebar and buttons 12-14 are various key binds as needed.

 

Powers that don't end up on either tray 1 or bound to one of the keys on the mouse/gamepad are accessed by clicking.  Those are almost always toggle powers such as armors, leadership and the like or are only occasionally needed and always out of combat like Assemble the Team, Team Transport and similar.

 

While I'm in combat my hands don't leave the mouse & gamepad and I very seldom need to click anything.

[Lodestar_1977]

4 minutes ago, Call Me Awesome said:

I'm not sure what you're asking here, I have the Nostromo under my left hand and it's used for movement forward/back/strafe left/right along with my attacks, travel power and jump.  The mouse is used for rotation and other buff powers are bound to the side keys.  I only use the keyboard for chat so I'm not touching it otherwise.

 

The rocker switch on the gamepad under my left thumb controls movement, the button just above the rocker is "Target Enemy Near", the button below the rocker is "Follow".  The buttons 1-10 are my tray 1 powers, button 11 is spacebar and buttons 12-14 are various key binds as needed.

 

Powers that don't end up on either tray 1 or bound to one of the keys on the mouse/gamepad are accessed by clicking.  Those are almost always toggle powers such as armors, leadership and the like or are only occasionally needed and always out of combat like Assemble the Team, Team Transport and similar.

 

While I'm in combat my hands don't leave the mouse & gamepad and I very seldom need to click anything.

I think you actually answered my question. You make use of both. Rather than one or the other. Thanks.

[Dr Causality]

On 1/16/2020 at 1:25 PM, Troo said:

Logitech G502 Proteus Core Gaming Mouse Review at Tomsguide https://www.tomsguide.com/us/logitech-g502-proteus-core,review-2138.html  wired with 11 programmable buttons $40-50

 

I have tried to find a decent 'silent' mouse. Most are wireless though and not idea. I like the Logitech M330 Silent Plus but would like it better if it was wired.

 

Since some mentioned keypads.. if you can find one. The over sized movement keys are pretty awesome.

 

 

 

Looking at this photo brings back memories!    I used one of these back on live so I could dualbox, to try out some character duo with custom builds that I had trouble getting a teammate to try with me.   I had a very complex setup with keystroke broadcasting to a 2nd computer.   It let me play almost entirely from key presses / MMO side buttons for all power activations.   I mapped keys to tray positions so all characters could use the same setup just by dragging powers or macros to the mapped tray positions.  That way I could switch between alts and easily remember the setup just be seeing the onscreen tray layout. 

 

Sadly, I'd seen the Fangs are no longer being made, so I picked up a Tartarus.   Looking at this photo I'm also realizing how much more and more compact the keys on the Fang are compared to the Tartarus V2.    I'm counting 31 keys in main area compared to 19 for the Tartarus.    This explains why I've had so much trouble coming up with a functional system like I had back then.  In comparison all the Tartarus adds is (1) a scroll wheel which I find awkwardly placed and I haven't been able to find a good use for.   (2) a direction pad that I use as 4 keys and 5th button above the direction pad.    It's just not enough keys for the crazy amount of powers we have now from Incarnate, Pools etc.     Even with 7 mouse side buttons, I'm still clicking on at least half my powers.       There's no way I could efficiently dual box like I used with my current setup. 

 

Anyway, Thanks for the trip down memory lane.  I'd totally forgotten what that Fang looked like.  🙂

[Dr Causality]

On 4/3/2020 at 12:00 PM, Call Me Awesome said:

I'm not sure what you're asking here, I have the Nostromo under my left hand and it's used for movement forward/back/strafe left/right along with my attacks, travel power and jump.  The mouse is used for rotation and other buff powers are bound to the side keys.  I only use the keyboard for chat so I'm not touching it otherwise.

 

The rocker switch on the gamepad under my left thumb controls movement, the button just above the rocker is "Target Enemy Near", the button below the rocker is "Follow".  The buttons 1-10 are my tray 1 powers, button 11 is spacebar and buttons 12-14 are various key binds as needed.

 

Powers that don't end up on either tray 1 or bound to one of the keys on the mouse/gamepad are accessed by clicking.  Those are almost always toggle powers such as armors, leadership and the like or are only occasionally needed and always out of combat like Assemble the Team, Team Transport and similar.

 

While I'm in combat my hands don't leave the mouse & gamepad and I very seldom need to click anything.

Since you use the rocker for movement, I'm wonder what you use for jump?    Your thumb is already controlling the rocker, so seems like you couldn't use the stock jump thumb button?    (And it sounds like you remapped it for Follow...)

[Call Me Awesome]

On 5/10/2020 at 1:17 AM, Dr Causality said:

Since you use the rocker for movement, I'm wonder what you use for jump?    Your thumb is already controlling the rocker, so seems like you couldn't use the stock jump thumb button?    (And it sounds like you remapped it for Follow...)

I have button 11 on the pad for jump, having it as one of the thumb buttons would require me to take my thumb off of the movement control, this is a problem when jumping.  Jumping forward requires holding spacebar and the forward movement control, you'll also need left/right/back at times to control your movement in the air.  When you let go of jump you immediately start descending, not always what you want when moving.  Particularly with Super Jump.

 

When you're Super Jumping you hold the spacebar to jump AND you hold the directional control to jump forward instead of straight up.  Having both controls on the thumb won't work.  It's the same for Flying, spacebar moves you up and the directional control moves you forward/back/left/right.  You need to press both at the same time.

[Dr Causality]

18 hours ago, Call Me Awesome said:

I have button 11 on the pad for jump, having it as one of the thumb buttons would require me to take my thumb off of the movement control, this is a problem when jumping.  Jumping forward requires holding spacebar and the forward movement control, you'll also need left/right/back at times to control your movement in the air.  When you let go of jump you immediately start descending, not always what you want when moving.  Particularly with Super Jump.

 

When you're Super Jumping you hold the spacebar to jump AND you hold the directional control to jump forward instead of straight up.  Having both controls on the thumb won't work.  It's the same for Flying, spacebar moves you up and the directional control moves you forward/back/left/right.  You need to press both at the same time.

Maybe we should start a seperate Tartarus / Orbweaver thread to collect our tips and tricks?

 

The Razer Synapse software really sucks (can't bind two keys why!?)     But I came up with two tricks for direction pad that might be interesting to you:

 

Trick #1:   It wouldn't be fine tuned enough movement control for PVP and even for PVE probably still want to remap an +Up jump button somewhere like you're doing at 11.       But if you change the direction pad to 8 directions instead of the default 4, add an alternate mapping to 'Right Control' for +Up, then Razer software will let you add Right Control as a Modifier of your the key you mapped to +Forward movement which you can set for the diagonal forward thumbpad.    This means by moving your thumb to the diagonal forward you can simultaneously jump and move forward with just your thumb!   You can steer with your mouse, so works pretty well.    But the limitation is you still have no way to hold down your jump button....  So you stop jumping when you stop moving forward, and also lose all other fine grained movement while jumping or even jumping vertically are is possible.

 

Trick #2:    But that made me think of what's probably a better use of the diagonal forward modifier combos.  Because the Razer software sucks and won't allow mapping multiple keys, your stuck using what Synapse allows as modifier keys.   In game I set 'R Ctrl' to be 'Target Enemy_Next'  and 'R Alt' to be 'Target Enemy_Near'.     Then in Synapse I set them respectively as modifiers of the +Forward key on the two forward diagonals.   That lets me target with my Thumb, while moving...    Target Near despite being used more only needs to be flicked once, so I set it to the less natural +Forward Diagonal R position.   Target Next needed more precise control to cycle through enemies, so I set it to the more natural Forward Diagonal Left thumb direction.

 

 

With Targeting and Movement out of the way that should free up most of the Keys for power execution.          

 

Have you found anything useful for the Scroll Wheel?

 

 

[Call Me Awesome]

3 hours ago, Dr Causality said:

Maybe we should start a seperate Tartarus / Orbweaver thread to collect our tips and tricks?

 

The Razer Synapse software really sucks (can't bind two keys why!?)     But I came up with two tricks for direction pad that might be interesting to you:

 

Trick #1:   It wouldn't be fine tuned enough movement control for PVP and even for PVE probably still want to remap an +Up jump button somewhere like you're doing at 11.       But if you change the direction pad to 8 directions instead of the default 4, add an alternate mapping to 'Right Control' for +Up, then Razer software will let you add Right Control as a Modifier of your the key you mapped to +Forward movement which you can set for the diagonal forward thumbpad.    This means by moving your thumb to the diagonal forward you can simultaneously jump and move forward with just your thumb!   You can steer with your mouse, so works pretty well.    But the limitation is you still have no way to hold down your jump button....  So you stop jumping when you stop moving forward, and also lose all other fine grained movement while jumping or even jumping vertically are is possible.

 

Trick #2:    But that made me think of what's probably a better use of the diagonal forward modifier combos.  Because the Razer software sucks and won't allow mapping multiple keys, your stuck using what Synapse allows as modifier keys.   In game I set 'R Ctrl' to be 'Target Enemy_Next'  and 'R Alt' to be 'Target Enemy_Near'.     Then in Synapse I set them respectively as modifiers of the +Forward key on the two forward diagonals.   That lets me target with my Thumb, while moving...    Target Near despite being used more only needs to be flicked once, so I set it to the less natural +Forward Diagonal R position.   Target Next needed more precise control to cycle through enemies, so I set it to the more natural Forward Diagonal Left thumb direction.

 

 

With Targeting and Movement out of the way that should free up most of the Keys for power execution.          

 

Have you found anything useful for the Scroll Wheel?

 

 

I originally tried using the 8 way option on the rocker switch back in 2004 on the original Belkin Nostromo, I found it a bit tricky to get it to register the diagonal settings and after some frustration abandoned it and haven't looked back.  I was always getting the wrong function when I was trying to move, or moving when I tried to access whatever I set to the diagonal settings.

 

By the way, you CAN map multiple keys by creating a macro on a key, and you can make a pretty complex one if you desire.  The macro record function is fairly capable and you can have it include or exclude time delays between portions of the macro.  Admittedly I don't use them much and generally set my macros in game.

 

I've found the scroll wheel is a bit buggy, I have it set for scroll up = next target and scroll down = previous target but it frequently seems to default back to the mouse wheel zoom in/out.  After a bit of experimentation I decided to forget about it. 

[Dr Causality]

25 minutes ago, Call Me Awesome said:

I originally tried using the 8 way option on the rocker switch back in 2004 on the original Belkin Nostromo, I found it a bit tricky to get it to register the diagonal settings and after some frustration abandoned it and haven't looked back.  I was always getting the wrong function when I was trying to move, or moving when I tried to access whatever I set to the diagonal settings.

I found it much easier to use 8-way, once I removed the joystick tip.    But the other reason the 8-way works out okay here is all three forwards I'm mapping use the +Forward key, it's just that slightly left of forward also does Target_Next and Right of pure Forward also does Target_Near.   That makes it forgiving enough for me to use, since they have the center pure forward as a seperator.   But yeah I could see it being an issue if they were all discrete powers...

 

Quote

By the way, you CAN map multiple keys by creating a macro on a key, and you can make a pretty complex one if you desire.  The macro record function is fairly capable and you can have it include or exclude time delays between portions of the macro.  Admittedly I don't use them much and generally set my macros in game.

Hope to be wrong, but from trying the Macro's out in Synapse 3, it does complex key sequences, but doesn't let you register two keys simultaneous presses.   But I found you could hack it by deleting the the release portion, so that both keys were actually pressed at the same time.    The remaining problem still was the Macro's don't allow for "Holding" the macro keypresses while you hold down the key the macro is assigned to, so Macros are not really usable for things like Jump or Fly where you need to hold them for a varying duration.   The Macro made Jump + Forward as work very erratically.    The Synapse Macros feel very limited without allowing multiple key presses and holding the macro buttons while the mapped key is pressed.   Tough to understand why there's still this limitation in Synapse, since the software can properly do this with Modifier keys, it seems clear that it's an intentional limitation.     I'

 

 

Quote

I've found the scroll wheel is a bit buggy, I have it set for scroll up = next target and scroll down = previous target but it frequently seems to default back to the mouse wheel zoom in/out.  After a bit of experimentation I decided to forget about it. 

Yeah I saw that bugginess too.     I also tried for targeting like you did, but without being able to set the wheel's scroll  the rate of scrolling it was useful for Target_Next because it too hard to control skipping past the target I wanted...

[MunkiLord]

I found the macro recording to be rather un-intuitive the one time I tried to make a macro. I tried to make an entire macro for my DM/SR Scrapper fighting a Rikti Pylon, and I did. But it was difficult for me. Also my time was terrible.

[WanderingAries]

Kind of a sidebar, but does anyone know of a functionally and design similar alternative to the Performance MX mouse? I've already ordered my next one, but I'm on number 2/3 since 2012 and they're getting harder to find new (the cost is going up a lot too!). I don't need a ton of buttons as I only really use the three on the left side and I like the scroll toggle.

[Hyperstrike]

15 hours ago, WanderingAries said:

Kind of a sidebar, but does anyone know of a functionally and design similar alternative to the Performance MX mouse? I've already ordered my next one, but I'm on number 2/3 since 2012 and they're getting harder to find new (the cost is going up a lot too!). I don't need a ton of buttons as I only really use the three on the left side and I like the scroll toggle.

Roccat Pure line of ergonomic mice.
Logitech's MX Master series
Logitech's M720
Logitech's G502 and 604 LIGHTSPEED wireless mice
Gigabyte M6800

They're not quite the same shape, but look at the SteelSeries Rival 710 and Rival 500.

 

[MunkiLord]

Tartarus Pro was on sale last week for 80(normally 130) so I picked it up. Been playing Wasteland 3 so haven't had much use for it yet but I'm getting ready to really test it out. What I'm most curious about is how well using different actuation points on the same key to do different things.