The Doctor

[TheOtherTed]

This was posted on another game forum, so I figured I'd share.

 

 

Am I a bad person for asking, "...why now?"

[Luminara]

43 minutes ago, TheOtherTed said:

Am I a bad person for asking, "...why now?"

 

The 60th anniversary is coming, and the last few series haven't garnered the acclaim of the previous ones, so it makes sense that they'd find a reason to bring back the most popular of the modern Doctors and tie up that hanging plot thread.

[Glacier Peak]

I'm still surprised after this many years there is anything left to write about! 

[TheOtherTed]

2 hours ago, Luminara said:

hanging plot thread.

The series has never bothered much about hanging threads, though, especially when it comes to companions (note to self - think about writing an Ed Gorey style book about each of the companions' ends).

 

That said, I get what you mean, and I've no doubt this is an attempt to revitalize the series.  It will probably work - for a bit.  I'll watch it, certainly (assuming it's not exclusive to one of the two streaming services I've forsworn against forever).  However, at some point the show runners are going to have to get their house in order, or at least realize that each actor who portrays the Doctor needs to bring something of themselves to the role.

 

On that note, I still think Olivia Colman would make an excellent and unique Doctor.  Maybe she doesn't want the role, though...

[Arc-Mage]

The series ratings have been plummeting for almost a decade. Russel T Davies is back as the showrunner. Davies is trying to bump the ratings after the last seasons 15 year low by bringing back David Tennant. 
 

He’s only back for three “specials.”

 

The new Doctor has already been announced, Ncuti Gatwa is his name. I personally think announcing the new Doctor then bringing back Tennant is kinda dick move on Davies part. It totally overshadowed Gatwa’s Doctor announcement. Further it sets Gatwa up for a greater fall than he would have had if he was just following Jodi Whittaker’s abysmal ratings. Doctor Who ratings are so low Gatwa could only improve on them. Now he has a 50/50 chance at success.

 

[Techwright]

I don't suppose they'd bring Peter back as well?  (Well yes, there were multiple Peters.  I'd take any.)

 

Tennant is going to be Fourteen? At least, that's the rumor I read. I've not followed the show for a while now.  I'm guessing this confirms the Curator's comment about revisiting the old faces?  If so, may I just say, I would return in a heartbeat if they brought Paul McGann back as a reincarnation of the 8th Doctor.  His 14 minutes as a lead-in to the 50th Anniversary were some of the best Doctor Who I ever saw, and I genuinely would be interested in 3 proper series being extended to him.

 

I know nothing of Gatwa, and I'm interested to see what he brings to the role.  I knew nothing of David Tennant or Matt Smith but I was blown away by their performances.

[TheOtherTed]

4 hours ago, Techwright said:

Tennant is going to be Fourteen? At least, that's the rumor I read.

 

Looks like more than a rumor....

https://variety.com/2022/tv/global/doctor-who-david-tennant-14th-doctor-ncuti-gatwa-1235412291/

 

Don't forget, this is the Doctor who cheated death - or, regeneration, rather - so I'm sure they'll use that as a hand-wavy explanation as to why he could come back as a "new" Doctor.

[Techwright]

On 1/2/2023 at 6:55 AM, TheOtherTed said:

 

Looks like more than a rumor....

https://variety.com/2022/tv/global/doctor-who-david-tennant-14th-doctor-ncuti-gatwa-1235412291/

 

Don't forget, this is the Doctor who cheated death - or, regeneration, rather - so I'm sure they'll use that as a hand-wavy explanation as to why he could come back as a "new" Doctor.

I'm sure "I don't want to go!" has something to do with it as well.  We saw several of the other psyches of the Doctor manifest, but none of the new series. I suspect Fourteen may prove to be Ten's psyche pushing to the front, tying up loose ends that he didn't want to leave behind to another version of himself.  Then again,..

Spoiler

The clothes changed as well.  (Yes I went online and saw reaction videos to figure the ending out).  While I'm told this is because the new producers didn't want transvestite jokes made about the Doctor, I'm wondering if the clothes are actually a hint that the transformation is not normal but an aberration, something meddling with Time Lord science that rewrote the Doctor (as normal) and the time/space around him.

 

[Clave Dark 5]

On 12/25/2022 at 4:45 PM, TheOtherTed said:

think about writing an Ed Gorey style book about each of the companions' ends).

 The Gallifreyancrumb Tinies? 

 

K is for Katarina, who died without air.

L is for Leela, whom Andred did snare.

[TheOtherTed]

A is for Adric, who ended an age.

B is for Bill, who died to blue rage.

 

Practically writes itself.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by TheOtherTed
...ok - sort of writes itself.

[Clave Dark 5]

Sadly there's no X-named character that would fit.  Xoanon maybe???

[TheOtherTed]

4 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

Sadly there's no X-named character that would fit.  Xoanon maybe???

I'm not sure that Xoanon counts as a companion (in spite of being half-Doctor in a sense), but we can always do what the writers have done - make sh*t up whole-cloth and hope no one notices.

[Techwright]

On 12/25/2022 at 4:10 PM, Luminara said:

 

...and tie up that hanging plot thread.

Actually, there's another plot thread this might tie up...

 

Spoiler

...that is, assuming the three-episode 60th anniversary event suggests Fourteen has a longer lifespan than we see on screen.  It's that of River Song reacting to Ten as if she'd seen his face before and was accustomed to it, while being shocked and scared when Ten doesn't reciprocate.  Why would she have that reaction if it was her first (and only) time meeting Ten, just like it was his first encounter?  The answer is Fourteen, and more importantly Fourteen pretending to be Ten.  It's why she can look in Ten's eyes during the events of Silence in the Library and declare that they're younger than she's ever seen them, and yet still have only 12 pictures of the Doctor.  She though she'd seen Ten before, only it was really Fourteen.

 

Really hope they do this, if not visually, then in canon books and audio books.

 

[Clave Dark 5]

"Really hope they do this, if not visually, then in canon books and audio books."

 

Oh, they'll do it six ways to Sunday and then some.  And then do it again, only worse - and then once more!

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Spoiler

On 1/5/2023 at 12:35 AM, Techwright said:

a hint that the transformation is not normal but an aberration, something meddling with Time Lord science that rewrote the Doctor (as normal) and the time/space around him.

There's also the hint that Ncuti appears in the trailer too - stuck in what looks like the Doc's psychic landscape / ancestral plane / metaphorical wossname - demanding to speak to the manager. Having a past and future Doc fighting for control of the same body doesn't sound like a good idea.

 

And then we have to work out exactly who NPH is. Seems a little overflamboyant even for The Master. I would bet on The Celestial Toymaker, a Q-like being from the First Doctor era, who's fond of games and mind control, exists partly outside the known universe in their own consciousness, and collects eternal companions to join him. That seems like a good throwback for Anniversary purposes, and capable of screwing with a regeneration.

 

[Techwright]

19 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

  Hide contents

There's also the hint that Ncuti appears in the trailer too - stuck in what looks like the Doc's psychic landscape / ancestral plane / metaphorical wossname - demanding to speak to the manager. Having a past and future Doc fighting for control of the same body doesn't sound like a good idea.

 

And then we have to work out exactly who NPH is. Seems a little overflamboyant even for The Master. I would bet on The Celestial Toymaker, a Q-like being from the First Doctor era, who's fond of games and mind control, exists partly outside the known universe in their own consciousness, and collects eternal companions to join him. That seems like a good throwback for Anniversary purposes, and capable of screwing with a regeneration.

 

Wow, The Celestial Toymaker.  I'd wished for a long time that we might see that character again.  There is a rich history in the first 4 Doctors from which modern writers might draw inspiration.  I've also hoped to see Kan'po/Cho-Je again (Timelord who left his people to be a Buddist on Earth.  He aided the dying Third Doctor to regenerate), and the other big bad of the Time Lord founders, Omega. Come to think of it, did the last Doctor run into Rassilon?  Because if not, he's still out there, and likely still has unlimited regenerations and a serious vendetta against the Doctor.  He would have the ability to mess with Time Lord science.

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Well, this being a tIme travel series, earlier/later versions of Rassilon or anybody could show up anywhere/anywhen.

In the New Who series, Rassilon's been played by Tim Dalton (in full scenery chewing mode driving John Simm mad and ending Tennant's first run) and Donald Sumpter (killing Clara and imprisoning Capaldi for four billion years, which seems to have annoyed him a bit).

 

The other one that'd be fun to show up is Regius Professor "Reg" Urban Chronotis, created by one Douglas Adams. A Time Lord who's been quietly living and working as a professor at Cambridge for the last couple of hundred years. His colleagues have noticed he doesn't seem to change, age, or die, but being British think it's impolite to mention it.

 

[Techwright]

6 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Well, this being a tIme travel series, earlier/later versions of Rassilon or anybody could show up anywhere/anywhen.

In the New Who series, Rassilon's been played by Tim Dalton (in full scenery chewing mode driving John Simm mad and ending Tennant's first run) and Donald Sumpter (killing Clara and imprisoning Capaldi for four billion years, which seems to have annoyed him a bit).

 

The other one that'd be fun to show up is Regius Professor "Reg" Urban Chronotis, created by one Douglas Adams. A Time Lord who's been quietly living and working as a professor at Cambridge for the last couple of hundred years. His colleagues have noticed he doesn't seem to change, age, or die, but being British think it's impolite to mention it.

 

 

I somehow missed Chronotis in my casual years of viewing Doctor Who (thanks PBS stations for repeatedly messing with the timelin...er, broadcast hours), but it sounds like a fun character. 

 

One of the things that bugged me right from the start of New Who was that, supposedly, all the Time Lords were lost to the climactic moment of the Time War, yet we had The Master who clearly was not on Gallifrey, and therefore did not share its fate.  The Who universe is replete with Time Lords who've not returned to Gallifrey for centuries of their lifespan, so why not showcase more of them?  Why have the Doctor moping about?  I realize the events of "The Doctor's Wife" showed Eleven that many of his kind perished in a pocket universe trap, but Gallifrey is ancient, and its collective population spread across timelines must be huge.  There should still be some out there.  The Rani, anyone?

 

Oh, and speaking of that episode, I'm really, really hoping that some writer will realize that, just because The Corsair has an end doesn't mean that previous incarnations of The Corsair are not jetting around the universe getting into mischief in various times.  The episodes of Doctor Eleven made us realize just how crazy time travel can be.  It's high time we start to see the tale of The Corsair, with the Doctor bumping into previous version of them, and having shared adventures with an old chum while having to painfully hold the secret that from his timeline's point of view, they're already dead (but avenged).  I recommend actress Jaime Murray to them for one of the female versions of the Corsair.  If you've seen Warehouse 13, you'll know why.  Murray was fantastic as whip-smart rogue H.G. (Helena) Wells.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Techwright

[Darmian]

On 1/11/2023 at 2:41 AM, Techwright said:

Actually, there's another plot thread this might tie up...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

...that is, assuming the three-episode 60th anniversary event suggests Fourteen has a longer lifespan than we see on screen.  It's that of River Song reacting to Ten as if she'd seen his face before and was accustomed to it, while being shocked and scared when Ten doesn't reciprocate.  Why would she have that reaction if it was her first (and only) time meeting Ten, just like it was his first encounter?  The answer is Fourteen, and more importantly Fourteen pretending to be Ten.  It's why she can look in Ten's eyes during the events of Silence in the Library and declare that they're younger than she's ever seen them, and yet still have only 12 pictures of the Doctor.  She though she'd seen Ten before, only it was really Fourteen.

 

Really hope they do this, if not visually, then in canon books and audio books.

 

That doesn't work because she doesn't recognize 12 in "The Husbands of River Song", and in that she even has a photo of War, and he was hidden away from most.

[Techwright]

1 hour ago, Darmian said:

That doesn't work because she doesn't recognize 12 in "The Husbands of River Song", and in that she even has a photo of War, and he was hidden away from most.

Which is why 14 has to keep mum about which version he really is.  If she doesn't know he's the third of a new set of generations, then she's left thinking he's 10.  She does know that 10 bled off a regeneration to extend his own existence. 

 

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

6 hours ago, Techwright said:

I somehow missed Chronotis in my casual years of viewing Doctor Who

So did everyone else. He's in Shada, a Tom Baker serial that was never completed due to a strike at the BBC. It was completed a few years back with animation and voiceovers. Doug also reused Reg in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency, where we discover the only thing that can kill a TARDIS is hooking it up to the British phone system. 

 

On a very tangential note...

 

...the frequent strikes in the UK in the 70s came back to haunt me when I was working for another TV company in the early 2000s.

This creepy little no-budget number was an April Fool's Day special for 1977, but another strike delayed it to the summer - accidentally War Of The Worlds'ing the UK.

 

Where do I fit in? Well, for the station's 40th anniversary, I put some clips online and a nice history site about it.

And got death threats.

And all the clips stolen, syndicated to a bunch of different sites, some re-edited with bible quotes to prove its authenticity.

Yup, conspiracy theorists believe to this day that Alt/3 was real (it wasn't) and was suppressed by the US government (it was).

[Techwright]

3 hours ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

So did everyone else. He's in Shada, a Tom Baker serial that was never completed due to a strike at the BBC. It was completed a few years back with animation and voiceovers. Doug also reused Reg in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency, where we discover the only thing that can kill a TARDIS is hooking it up to the British phone system. 

 

Oh, Shada.  Yes, even on this side of the Pond I heard about it many years back, though I didn't know much about the plot or characters.  I didn't know someone animated it to finish up.  Good for them!

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Regenerating this thread for the new Anniversary Specials trailer:

 

Spoiler

• NPH's casting name is now confirmed as The Toymaker, who is probably The Celestial Toymaker.
• There's also a visual reference to the Toymaker's toybox, in which he stored his acquired victims until he needed them for a game.
• Kate Stewart is back and even has a shiny new Avengers Building UNIT HQ.
  Though, let's face it: putting a not-particularly-secret base/high value target in the middle of bloody London doesn't make sense, when it'd be much cheaper, safer and easier to get a discreet little industrial unit in Slough. And if it gets blown up, nobody's going to miss Slough.
• Not much else obvious to look through, except a hint at another, as yet undefined multidimensional villain. (Which might be how the Toymaker escaped his own confinement.)

 

[Techwright]

1 hour ago, ThaOGDreamWeaver said:

Regenerating this thread for the new Anniversary Specials trailer:

Responses:

  Hide contents

• NPH's casting name is now confirmed as The Toymaker, who is probably The Celestial Toymaker.  The Celestial Toymaker was from the era of Doctor #3 wasn't he?  I remember the character's existence, but not the story.  I might have seen in back in the early 1980s when the local PBS station would show Dr. Who at wildly improbable hours in the middle of the night. (Had to sneak on the b&w TV set in my room to watch it at 1 or 2 am).  If I have it right, then kudos to them for tapping the older shows to bring new life to an old villain.
• There's also a visual reference to the Toymaker's toybox, in which he stored his acquired victims until he needed them for a game.
• Kate Stewart is back and even has a shiny new Avengers Building UNIT HQ.
  Though, let's face it: putting a not-particularly-secret base/high value target in the middle of bloody London doesn't make sense, when it'd be much cheaper, safer and easier to get a discreet little industrial unit in Slough. And if it gets blown up, nobody's going to miss Slough.
• Not much else obvious to look through, except a hint at another, as yet undefined multidimensional villain. (Which might be how the Toymaker escaped his own confinement.)  There's also the question of why this particular face of the Doctor surfaced.  I feel it is clearly because of Donna, yet he didn't know her peril at time of transformation, so perhaps there's a big cosmic answer to that as well.

 

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Techwright

[ThaOGDreamWeaver]

Timey-wimey response... (Plus small edit below)

Spoiler

 

On 9/23/2023 at 10:56 PM, Techwright said:

The Celestial Toymaker was from the era of Doctor #3 wasn't he?  I remember the character's existence, but not the story. 

No, we're talking really really old-school - Doc #1 in black and white.

 

 

This small sequence also gives you a clue about the Toymaker. He's a basically a mischievous Q with no limits to his power... except for the rules he puts in place to his own games. (In case you're wondering, the Doc impersonates the Toymaker to make a final move from the safety of the Tardis, and escapes just as the Toymaker's pocket dimension vanishes in a puff of logic. So you have to beat him at his own game.)

 

 

 

Thing I also forgot to mention...

Spoiler

BTW: little anomaly between US and UK TV for ya. The clip above is from the only episode of that story that still exists. While the scripts are still around, plus promo clips and a whole bunch of off-air audio tapes made by fans, around a third of the first six series' episodes are gone forever, with some serials like Marco Polo entirely lost. The only ones that survive intact were the ones transferred to film for overseas resale. Which for a "light entertainment show" like Doctor Who, wasn't that many.

 

Why? Back in the day, video mag tape was very expensive, fragile and hard to come by, so it got regularly cleaned and reused. Even when stuff like Who and Python became a hit, the BBC still never bothered to keep them around that much. (And when I started working in telly in the early 2000s, we still had a big ol' wiping machine nicknamed Judge Doom, and fried our DigiBetas regularly. AVID archiving was a total game changer - but a decent modern phone had more storage than our whole system did.)

 

While in the States and Canada, a lot of comedy and drama stuff was transferred to film, as it was more stable and easier to mail out for syndication - and there were dozens and dozens of copies made for all the different stations.

 

So Trek, Lucy and Bewitched are almost all complete, look fresh as the day they were made, and are relatively easy to restore for hi-def. Whereas topical stuff like news, sports, game shows, and talk shows, which were syndicated on tape - there's a whole chunk of important stuff missing from the end of the cine newsreel era through to the early 80s. We have one very small piece at home I'd love to find and restore of my dad being interviewed by Waaaaallter Crooonn-kite about Apollo 13, but it's only stuff like that where a guest or engie took it home as a souvenir that's been kept.

 

The Beeb only stopped purging stuff in 1978 with the advent of home video recorders, and the consequent sudden demand for back catalogue content - yep, same thing happening all over again.

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by ThaOGDreamWeaver