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Too much Acc?


Troo
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How much is too much accuracy?

 

Is 100% enough or should we be shooting for more?

 

Typically I shoot for 175-185% and for the life of me I can't really remember why that number range.

"Homecoming is not perfect but it is still better than the alternative.. at least so far" - Unknown  (Wise words Unknown!)

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55 minutes ago, Troo said:

How much is too much accuracy?

 

Is 100% enough or should we be shooting for more?

 

Typically I shoot for 175-185% and for the life of me I can't really remember why that number range.

I always try to slap on a Kismet and take Leadership or other pools that have Accuracy whenever I can fit them on a build.  Pretty much for all builds.  Some more overboard than others.  That is +to hit.  WAAAaaaaaaay better.  THEN I add as much +ACC bonuses as 'naturally' fit.

 

I run a lot of Dark Dark and some Dark powers (usually one per toon) has a crap base accuracy.  I find part of Dark's game is a accuracy 'fulcrum shift'  You need a lot less Res Def and Health if you always hit and your opponents rarely hit.

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I generally slot 40-50% in powers and shoot for 40%+ in set bonuses. I might cut those if I'm running Tactics, Kismet or some other +tohit.

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Kismet is standard slotting for me as well, and depending on the character I'll take tactics as well. Otherwise I ride off the natural acc from my slotting choices and any incidental acc gained from set bonuses.

 

If a power doesn't seem to hit well enough I'll slot more acc, but that's hardly the issue even at +4.

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While leveling, every little bit helps.  But by the time I get to 50+, there are usually one of two scenarios:  you're capped at 95% to hit, or debuffers gang up on you.  Nothing like a handful of Agony Mages or whoever to knock your to hit back to single digits.  

 

Lately, I've been looking more at epic pool choices just for the -to hit debuff resistance, like Focused Accuracy and just slot them with endurance reduction.

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Take for example image.png.f13ce976bfeb4750fc0ca875eacdbe1c.png

[*] HamiO:Nucleolus Exposure
[*] HamiO:Nucleolus Exposure
[*] Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage
[*] Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage
[*] Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
[*] Fury of the Gladiator - Chance for Res Debuff

 

With a global [*] Kismet - Accuracy +6% & Tactics' ToHit +10%

We land at, for Whirling Hands, accuracy of 151.6%. With other misc bonuses 184.4%.  Is that overkill and simply wasted Acc?

 

Could alternately go image.png.6f80a8dfbb64269a2ad3ae676465369c.png which eeks out a smidge more average damage.

Here, for the same build, we land at Whirling Hands accuracy being 121.3%. With other misc bonuses 152.2%. Is this enough for +4 content?

 

 

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Edited by Troo

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12 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

I'm just confused that would be slotted with so many procs, did Whirling Hand get a recharge change?

 

Whirling Hands has a 14s recharge.

On a Tank it's a poster child for procs taking it from 120-ish damage to potentially 300+/- across 16 targets albeit with an 8 foot radius.

 

Edited by Troo

"Homecoming is not perfect but it is still better than the alternative.. at least so far" - Unknown  (Wise words Unknown!)

Si vis pacem, para bellum

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4 minutes ago, Troo said:

Whirling Hands has a 14s recharge.

On a Tank it's a poster child for procs taking it from 120-ish damage to potentially 300+/- across 16 targets albeit with an 8 foot radius.

I suppose my playstyle is different, but I like to have at least a 75% chance to proc any 3.5 PPM procs.

 

With your above slotting, you're hitting 50% chance to proc on 3.5PPM procs.

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Well, if I remember right your base chance to hit a +0 mob is 75%. Each +1 in level drops that by 5%, so if you're running at +4 you'll have a 55% to hit a +4 mob, and a 50% to hit a +5 mob.

 

Accuracy is a modifier on your to-hit check. So if you have a 50% to hit and +50% accuracy, your odds to hit would go up to 75% (50 + 1.5).

 

To-hit modifies your base hit chances, so if you had the same 50% hit chance, and +30% to-hit, your odds of hitting would be 80%. If you have +20% or more accuracy, you'll be at 95% to hit.

 

So against a +0 mob, if you have +20% to-hit and zero accuracy, you'll still hit 95% of the time (barring debuffs, mobs with +def, etc). Against mobs at higher levels, or mobs with defense or debuffs, accuracy becomes less valuable and to-hit becomes much more powerful.

 

I have very little knowledge about procs, as I rarely use them myself. The ones I do use are generally just included in a set for the final set bonus.

Edited by WumpusRat
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@Troo Perhaps I imagined it (or more likely misremembered), but I am currently under the impression that the %damage (and %mezz) procs have some sort of reliance on Accuracy independent of base ToHit chance of the power cast at them (in addition to the %proc chance)... this is (from my memory) part of the reason was so a  %damage proc in an "autohit power" would not be guaranteed to "hit" (beside factoring in the %proc rate).

 

My Whirling Hands (tanker) slotting is much like your second choice. I like your choice of %-Restance, but I actually have the Superior Gauntleted Fist %Absorb in place of the %-Res (Invuln Tanker)

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@WumpusRat That seems to indicate I am over shooting accuracy even when taking into account some debuffs.

 

Working example that seems better than what I've been doing.

  • Lvl 50 Acc/Dam HO providing 33% Acc
  • 20% Global +Acc bonuses (purple set 15% Acc, 6% Kismet)
  • 20% Global +ToHit
  • 55% base for +4 (ignoring any level shifts)

55 * (1 + .33 + .20) = 84.15%

 

84.15 + 20 Global ToHit > 95% (correct?)

 

 

Edited by Troo

"Homecoming is not perfect but it is still better than the alternative.. at least so far" - Unknown  (Wise words Unknown!)

Si vis pacem, para bellum

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30 minutes ago, Troo said:

@WumpusRat That seems to indicate I am over shooting accuracy even when taking into account some debuffs.

 

Working example that seems better than what I've been doing.

  • Lvl 50 Acc/Dam HO providing 33% Acc
  • 20% Global +Acc bonuses (purple set 15% Acc, 6% Kismet)
  • 20% Global +ToHit
  • 55% base for +4 (ignoring any level shifts)

55 * (1 + .33 + .20) = 84.15%

 

84.15 + 20 Global ToHit > 95% (correct?)

 

 

Kismet is actually a to-hit buff, rather than accuracy. It SAYS accuracy, but it's to-hit. Which makes it a really nice one-slot bonus.

 

Accuracy functions on a multiple, rather than additive. To-hit is the additive.

 

So against a +4 mob the base chance to hit is 55%.

With +20% to-hit, it goes up to 75%.

With 53% accuracy on top of that, you'd go to 114.5% (75% * 1.53), which caps at 95%.

 

Mobs would have to have +20% defense (which a lot of the cimerorans have, with their shield stuff), or debuff you with -to hit to drop you below 95%.

 

Depending on what you fight a lot, having more than enough chance to hit is a good thing. Especially for the end-game groups (Carnies, Arachnos, Cimerorans, etc), who all have +def, -to hit debuffs, or both. I've died far too often to groups of pissed-off Nemesis soldiers who suddenly gained a ton of defense, to-hit and damage when their majors dropped, and I didn't have enough acc/to-hit to compensate. 🙂

Edited by WumpusRat
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37 minutes ago, Major_Decoy said:

They actually fixed Kismet to say to-hit in either page 4 or 5

 

I was going to use the Kismet piece as an example of misbranding/false (in-game) advertising in a recent "copyright infringement" thread, but because that Enhancement's title had been fixed it had to go onto the pile of never-to-be-used (counter) examples. I guess I'm stuck complaining that Icon won't outfit my characters with a "clanket".

 

Seriously, can the city hall rep give me a clanket mission?

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You can adjust the display settings in Mids to simulate your numbers against +4 enemies if you want to know if you have "enough" accuracy/to-hit to reliably land hits against them, assuming no enemy buffs/player debuffs are in play. This makes it easier to plan builds without having to look up values and do manual math. I might like numbers, but if the system can do it all for me it's a lot nicer.

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Thanks @ForeverLaxx. How much Acc do you shoot for in individual?

 

This is more an exercise in "Do I shoot for too much Acc" with some explanation and discussion.

"Homecoming is not perfect but it is still better than the alternative.. at least so far" - Unknown  (Wise words Unknown!)

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For a point of reference, I will say that slotting, for instance, a full set Superior Gauntleted Fist into your Whirling Hands would give 81.4% acc boost. I use this and Focused Acc from Energy Mastery. I use this tank for +4 content. My single target attacks are at least 75% boosted. I also use Resilient Core which adds a 20% to hit buff.

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On 1/15/2023 at 5:46 AM, Troo said:

How much is too much accuracy?

 

Is 100% enough or should we be shooting for more?

 

Typically I shoot for 175-185% and for the life of me I can't really remember why that number range.

It all depends on what you're up to when you play. 

If you're routinely out clobbering npcs at +4, then a higher accuracy is in order. Particularly if the npcs have a habit of debuffing accuracy or have particularly high defense. 
Think of Vampyri, Spectral demons for the former, and Rikti drones for the latter. When these npcs are +4 to you, it can be more than a bit annoying to hit "Aim" and then your t-9 and whiff. Repeatedly missing because your attack was "deflected". That nifty rule about only missing 3 times in a row doesn't seem to apply here. I've missed against a level 54 drone on my standard level 50 blaster 7 times in a row before I finally got him. But that was only with a kismet 6% and whatever accuracy comes with the global set bonuses. No tactics or Focused Accuracy. 

Anecdotally, I don't ever worry about accuracy because of the kismet. It's generally enough with the kismet, and when it's not, I can use the yellow inspirations. 

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I suppose I can offer my own approaches (for level 50+ builds, not considering Incarnates). I will admit that I am not specifically min-maxing the total numbers (Accuracy in a power considering both slotting of that power, global Accuracy/ToHit boosts, toggle effects from other powers (Tactics, Invincibility, Link Minds, Mind Link, etc.). I mention this caveat because (1) My approach will lead to mathematically greater than 95% final ToHit for a lot of content, (2) I try to approach each "attack" in isolation mostly because I enjoy running low-level content with PUGmates at increased enemy difficulties.

 

I should note: Some specific builds for some AT can make compromises on Accuracy slotting depending on playstyle and power choices. Thinking about my own roster: an Invulnerability/Energy Melee Tanker with ToHit slotting in Invincibility (e.g. a boosted 53 Hami-O: Cytoskeleton) who can keep itself surrounded with enemies may not have to worry too much about accuracy slotting for melee AoE. I do recommend having Build Up for those solo fights!

 

I typically try to have a minimum of 125% 'accuracy' in the "%proctastic attacks". Most of this is typically coming from 50+ enhancement set slotting bonuses, most enhancement sets I slot include accuracy components, so they will typically have much higher than 125% at 50%. The purple sets I like often include a 15% global accuracy boost with 4 pieces. 

 

I will (almost) always have (boosted) Accuracy as the first choice of enhancement in a %damage proctastic AoE "attack", what I combine it with afterwards, "depends"...

  • For melee, if the AT has a damage scale 1 or above, I generally use (boosted) Accuracy/Damage
  • For melee, if the AT has a damage scale below 1, I generally use (boosted) Accuracy/Endurance (all praise to Rularuu for Multi-Strike Accuracy/Endurance existing!)
  • For ranged cones, I start with (boosted) Accuracy/Range... unless the range of the cone would be wildly longer than other ranged powers. Special Note: many of my characters get a boosted Hami-O Accuracy/Range and a boosted D-Sync Damage/Range in their cones.
  • If it is an AoE absorb type power, I try to use the Accuracy/Absorb... but those stay attuned because of set bonuses.
  • If it otherwise doesn't matter and there is no benefit from Accuracy/recharge, I just use a common Invention Accuracy piece.

In proctastic AoE "attacks" (quotes used because of powers like DNA Siphon) I generally find myself using a PVP set to get a secondary enhancement, as Purple sets generally don't offer Accuracy/Endurance combination. High-damage scale AT just lean into strait (not %proc) Damage Enhancement via Purple sets, except for ranged cones on Stalkers/Scrappers.

 

 

17 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

Monitor your last hit chance.  If it's consistently below 95% then you need more.  Doubly true if you're already using Kismet and Tactics/Focused Accuracy in the build.

 

Also there is an option to monitor ToHit bonus; i am usually monitoring that stat for debuffs.

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I've forgotten the relationship between Acc and To Hit... I know there's an interesting mechanic between the two but that would help to understand how much acc one needs to succeed in this game

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

I've forgotten the relationship between Acc and To Hit... I know there's an interesting mechanic between the two but that would help to understand how much acc one needs to succeed in this game

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Attack_Mechanics

 

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

I've missed against a level 54 drone on my standard level 50 blaster 7 times in a row before I finally got him.

Drones have 35% defense to melee and ranged attacks, but no defense to AoE attacks or attacks without a positional tag.

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1 hour ago, Ukase said:

That nifty rule about only missing 3 times in a row doesn't seem to apply here. I've missed against a level 54 drone on my standard level 50 blaster 7 times in a row before I finally got him.

 

It always applies.  It's just that the number of misses StreakBreaker allows before forcing a hit depends on your final chance to hit that enemy.  If you missed 7 times then your chance to hit that drone was less than 30%.

 

Per the wiki:

Quote

 

Final to-hit : misses allowed

>.9 : 1
.8-.9 : 2
.6-.8 : 3
.4-.6 : 4
.3-.4 : 6
.2-.3 : 8
0 -.2 : 100

 

 

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