Cleric Archetype

[Canadian Anvil]

I was thinking if it would be possible to create a Cleric inspired Archetypes using, and slightly modifying existing powersets. The primary would be modified defensive powersets, with the secondary being melee weapon powersets, and a Divine Blessing bar (similar to Domination). It's stats would fall somewhere between Tanks and Brutes. The modification would be changing the taunt to a melee range aoe heal, or endurance regeneration, and adding to the Devine Blessing bar. The idea is an archetype with a wide range of the benefits of a defensive powerset while branching into a secondary support/melee damage role. The damage resistance of Invulnerability with minor team heals or end regen as you deal decent damage; or the adaptiveness of Bio Armor, the defenses of Super Reflexes, your Willpower for your team to survive is stronger, your Electric Armor boosts your team's endurance, your Regeneration is rooting in your deity of healing and allows you to keep your team sprits up.... But in the end, if you tank, you meet your deity quickly; you're not a Stalker, a Scrapper, or a Brute, but you're right there with them supporting them with your dogmatic beliefs.

 

Using the Dark Armor as an example, it can become two primary powerset for heal, and endurance regeneration.

 

Dark Healer

Converts your DMG/Enemy HP to Team Heals

Power	Activate	Sets	Effect
Death Shroud	Toggle	Melee AoE DMG; Healing	It is a PBAoE minor NEG DoT. The damage is 50% of the Tanker's Death Shroud, but 50% of the damage inflected is converter to a Melee Range PBAoE heal.
Dark Embrace	Toggle	Resist DMG	Adjusted for Archetype.
Murky Cloud	Toggle	Resist DMG	Adjusted for Archetype.
Obsidian Shield	Toggle	Resist DMG	Adjusted for Archetype.
Dark Regeneration	Click	Melee AoE DMG; Healing; Universal DMG	It is a PBAoE minor NEG DoT with a strong Melee Range PBAoE heal. Both DMG and Heal are weaker than a tank.
Cloak of Darkness	Toggle	Defense	Adjusted for Archetype.
Cloack of Fear	Toggle	Accuracy; Reduce Endurance Cost; Fear Duration; Increase Attack Rate; ToHit Debuff	Adjusted for Archetype.
Oppressive Gloom	Toggle	Accuracy; Reduce Endurance Cost; Increase Attack Rate; Disorient Duration; Healing	It is a Melee Range PBAoE Disorient and Heal that uses your HP. Each HP you lose is converted into an HP for team mates.
Soul Transfer	Click	Melee AoE Damage; END Modification; Healing; Stuns; Universal DMG	It is a PBAoE Self and Team Rez that uses Enemy HP to Rez yourself, of a fallen teammate in Melee Range. It's cool down is slightly longer that other Archetypes.
Divine Blessing	Click; Self Boost to Heals	Inherent Power	Works on the same principle, mechanics as Domination, but it boost your Dark Healer powerset heals by 25% for 30 secs with a 200 second cooldown.

 

Dark Encouragement

Converts your DMG/Enemy END to END Regen

Power	Activate	Sets	Effect
Death Shroud	Toggle	Melee AoE DMG; END Modification	It is a PBAoE END Dran NEG DoT. 50% of Enemy END is converter to a Melee Range PBAoE END Regen.
Dark Embrace	Toggle	Resist DMG	Adjusted for Archetype.
Murky Cloud	Toggle	Resist DMG	Adjusted for Archetype.
Obsidian Shield	Toggle	Resist DMG	Adjusted for Archetype.
Dark Regeneration	Click	Melee AoE DMG; END Modification; Universal DMG	It is a PBAoE minor NEG DoT with a strong Melee Range PBAoE END Regen. DMG is weaker than a tank.
Cloak of Darkness	Toggle	Defense	Adjusted for Archetype.
Cloack of Fear	Toggle	Accuracy; Reduce Endurance Cost; Fear Duration; Increase Attack Rate; ToHit Debuff	Adjusted for Archetype.
Oppressive Gloom	Toggle	Accuracy; Reduce Endurance Cost; Increase Attack Rate; Disorient Duration; END Modification	It is a Melee Range PBAoE Disorient and END Drain that uses your HP. Each HP you lose is converted into an END Regen for team mates.
Soul Transfer	Click	Melee AoE Damage; END Modification; Healing; Stuns; Universal DMG	It is a PBAoE Self and Team Rez that uses Enemy HP to Rez yourself, of a fallen teammate in Melee Range. It's cool down is slightly longer that other Archetypes.
Divine Blessing	Click; Self Boost to END Regen	Inherent Power	Works on the same principle, mechanics as Domination, but it boost your Dark Encouragement powerset END Regen by 20% for 30 secs with a 200 second cooldown.

 

 

Using the Battle Axe as an example, it can become a secondary powerset with decent DMG and chance to increase your Devine Blessing.

 

 

Battle Axe

Converts your DMG to HP

Power	Activate	Sets	Effect
Beheader	Click	Melee Damage; Defense Debuff; Accurate Defense Debuff; Knockback; Universal Damage; Archetype Sets	Melee, Moderate DMG(Lethal), Foe Knockdown, +Divine Blessing
Chop	Click	Melee Damage; Knockback; Defense Debuff; Accurate Defense Debuff; Universal Damage; Archetype Sets	Melee, High DMG(Lethal), Foe Knockdown, +Devine Blessing
Gash	Click	Melee Damage; Knockback; Universal Damage; Archetype Sets	Melee, Superior DMG(Lethal), Foe Knockdown. +Devine Blessing
Devine Intervention	Click	Healing	Melee Ranged PBAoE Heal
Cleric's Dogma	Click	To HIt Buff; END Modification	Melee Ranged PBAoe +DMG, +To-Hit, +END Regen
Pendulum	Click	Melee Damage; Knockback; Universal Damage; Archetype Sets	Melee (Targeted AoE), Superior DMG(Lethal), Foe Knockdown, +Devine Blessing
Swoop	Click	Melee Damage; Knockback; Universal Damage; Archetype Sets	Melee, Superior DMG(Lethal), Foe Knockup, +Devine Blessing
Axe Cyclone	Click	Melee Damage; Knockback; Universal Damage; Archetype Sets	PBAoE, Moderate DMG(Lethal), Foe Knockdown, Draw-in, +Devine Blessing
Cleave	Click	Melee Damage; Knockback; Universal Damage; Archetype Sets	Ranged (Targeted AoE), Extreme DMG(Lethal), Foe Knockdown, +Devine Blessing

 

 

For the Archetype Enhancement Set, it could be something like Blessed Weapon and Dogma V Faith. A Blessed Weapon is six piece with a Special Enhancement Bonus of Energy Damage of the slotted power. Dogma V Faith is a six piece set with a Special Enhancement Bonus of Decreasing Devine Blessing's cooldown timer by 25%.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Canadian Anvil

[biostem]

I think "Cleric" is too specific.  I get wanting a melee support AT, but I would go about it a bit differently.  I like combining the armor with the buffs/heals, but I would keep the powers a little more separated.  For instance, drop the damage or taunt auras from the armors, and replace them with appropriate heal or buff powers.

[biostem]

As a very quick & dirty example, consider the below:

 

"Empathic Will"

 

1. Heal Aura

2. Mind Over Body

3. Heal Other

4. Indomitable Will

5. Resurrect

6. Restoring Aura - A PBAoE toggle which costs no end, and provides some bonus to recovery to all in range

7. Heightened Awareness - A PBAoE toggle which provides some defense and extra perception to all in range

8. Rallying Cry - A click power which provides status protection, a damage boost, and a tohit buff to all allies in range

9. Strength of Will

[Glacier Peak]

Is this like an administrative Archetype?

[Rudra]

This isn't WoW. This isn't D&D. Make a melee/support AT, sure, but please don't tie it down to a fantasy genre. Any AT can be a character empowered by their deity. That is even incorporated as part of the magic origin. Many characters are even deities themselves running around.

 

I'm curious to see more of your proposed AT, but I am asking you to please reconsider the name and justification. Let the players decide if they want to use this AT as a cleric of some deity rather than impose that on them.

[Canadian Anvil]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

I think "Cleric" is too specific.  I get wanting a melee support AT, but I would go about it a bit differently.  I like combining the armor with the buffs/heals, but I would keep the powers a little more separated.  For instance, drop the damage or taunt auras from the armors, and replace them with appropriate heal or buff powers.

 

I did think about that, but then it came across as a melee defender. The reason I thought Cleric is because Clerics are melee stomping damage dealing moderate powered spell casters. So you're trading some of that defense for heal/end regen buffs fueled by damage; and you're trading some of your offensive power set damage for a temporary boost to the defensive heal/end regen buffs.

 

I'm also thinking of presenting a D&D Ranger inspired Archetype. The secondary is ranged weapons: Archery, Assault Rifle, Beam Rifle, Dual Pistols. The primary is defensive with two trees: heavy and light armor. Taunt is replaced with team primary/secondary pet damage buff¹ (heavy armor) and at level 41 a pet option is unlocked; or Taunt is replaced with a team to hit buff (light armor), and at level 49, two pet option are unlocked. The pet option is based on the defense. For example: Heavy Dark Armor would unlock Summon Demonlins, and Light Dark Armor would unlock Summon Demons, or Summon Prince Demon; Super Reflexes is Ninja; Radiation is Necromacer; Will Power is Beast Mastery; whatever. And an inherent boost Extra Attack would give a team damage buff of X% for Y seconds (can only stack 3 times).

 

1. Will not buff any pet that is not from a primary or secondary power sets such as Incarnate Pets; Temp Pet powers like the Penelope Yin (Faultline) story line reward.

[Rudra]

Please don't try to make City of Heroes/Villains into D&D.

[British Battler]

Do you mean like the Guardian AT that Rebirth has?

[Canadian Anvil]

1 hour ago, British Battler said:

Do you mean like the Guardian AT that Rebirth has?

Never played it, and just looked it up. Some of the Assult and Composition Powersets remind appear like a mix and match from other sets. I guess. But ultimately I'm suggesting reworking the taunt of defense.

[srmalloy]

10 hours ago, Rudra said:

Please don't try to make City of Heroes/Villains into D&D.

But wouldn't creating a 'cleric archetype make CoH more accessible to people coming from other MMOs, for whom the Holy Trinity™ of tank, DPS, and heals has been so aggressively beaten into their brains that they can't conceive of an MMO where the character roles aren't so narrowly defined? On the other hand, creating an archetype that is intended to be Heal/Melee regardless of powersets pigeonholes that archetype much more narrowly than any other archetype in the game. The gripping hand is, do we really need such a specialized archetype when several of the existing archetypes can be built to specialize in healing if the player wants to?

[Canadian Anvil]

14 hours ago, Rudra said:

This isn't WoW. This isn't D&D. Make a melee/support AT, sure, but please don't tie it down to a fantasy genre. Any AT can be a character empowered by their deity. That is even incorporated as part of the magic origin. Many characters are even deities themselves running around.

 

I'm curious to see more of your proposed AT, but I am asking you to please reconsider the name and justification. Let the players decide if they want to use this AT as a cleric of some deity rather than impose that on them.

You're exhausting, and 1/2 the reason I don't come to the forums that often. (Because I know full well you're gonna come back with another trolling post and keep nit picking and going off topic till I say, F it! I don't need this.) And this will be the only, possible last time, I engage with you. This is fantasy. All superhero genre is fantasy! It's all inspired by imagination and reworking myths, lore, whatnot. ALL! And it's full of mysticism, (dead) religious tones: Dr. Fate's helmet, Wonder Women is the daughter of a pagan god (who was originally created from clay and prayer), Thor is a pagan god.... Call it Cleric, Monk, Rabbi, Imam, Assistant Bob, or Your Mom. I don't care. I'm a happy atheist. It's an idea that builds on the game mechanics, and introduces a different type of role instead of just recycling and hog pogging powers.

 

So now ignoring you, I'm going to give other reasons for why I'm suggesting this:

1. Tanks, Brutes, Scrappers are fighting for aggro. So why not modify the Taunt system?
2. We have dedicated healer classes, and can make powerful healers even when it's the secondary and can get in close using Power Pools, Patron or Epic.
3. The idea came from my Dark/Titan tank as I've slotted the taunt not to get aggro, but to hold, damage enemies: Perfect Zinger (psionic); Triumphant Insult (disorient). I can constantly use my threat duration to generate bonus damage and hold. But I'm still pulling aggro from Brutes who need it for their Fury, or other Tanks who are better built to take damage.
4. I'm not talking about reconfiguring existing Support types; I'm talking about reconfiguring the Taunt/Threat Duration to new mechanics of exchanging the damage for team/PBAoE buffs, Rez. Those with imagination can see this can lead to other various subclasses like the Ranger INSPIRED mentioned above which would be a sub class of Sentinal that boost damage for Masterminds, Controllers, SoA.

[JasperStone]

16 minutes ago, Canadian Anvil said:

You're exhausting, and 1/2 the reason I don't come to the forums that often. (Because I know full well you're gonna come back with another trolling post and keep nit picking and going off topic till I say, F it! I don't need this.) And this will be the only, possible last time, I engage with you. This is fantasy. All superhero genre is fantasy! It's all inspired by imagination and reworking myths, lore, whatnot. ALL! And it's full of mysticism, (dead) religious tones: Dr. Fate's helmet, Wonder Women is the daughter of a pagan god (who was originally created from clay and prayer), Thor is a pagan god.... Call it Cleric, Monk, Rabbi, Imam, Assistant Bob, or Your Mom. I don't care. I'm a happy atheist. It's an idea that builds on the game mechanics, and introduces a different type of role instead of just recycling and hog pogging powers.

 

So now ignoring you, I'm going to give other reasons for why I'm suggesting this:

1. Tanks, Brutes, Scrappers are fighting for aggro. So why not modify the Taunt system?
2. We have dedicated healer classes, and can make powerful healers even when it's the secondary and can get in close using Power Pools, Patron or Epic.
3. The idea came from my Dark/Titan tank as I've slotted the taunt not to get aggro, but to hold, damage enemies: Perfect Zinger (psionic); Triumphant Insult (disorient). I can constantly use my threat duration to generate bonus damage and hold. But I'm still pulling aggro from Brutes who need it for their Fury, or other Tanks who are better built to take damage.
4. I'm not talking about reconfiguring existing Support types; I'm talking about reconfiguring the Taunt/Threat Duration to new mechanics of exchanging the damage for team/PBAoE buffs, Rez. Those with imagination can see this can lead to other various subclasses like the Ranger INSPIRED mentioned above which would be a sub class of Sentinal that boost damage for Masterminds, Controllers, SoA.

I have no idea why you are calling @Rudra trolling and nit picking.

 

"I'm curious to see more of your proposed AT, but I am asking you to please reconsider the name and justification. Let the players decide if they want to use this AT as a cleric of some deity rather than impose that on them."

 

This point is valid.

 

https://www.cbr.com/dungeons-dragons-comics-inspiration-cleric/#the-saint-of-killers-preacher

 

In D & D, Clerics are traditionally the healing class in any party and often serve a God or Gods of their Domain. Capable of Divine Magic granted to them for some higher purpose, these characters can be both offense and support, and can often blend with a Paladin.

 

The Term "Cleric" really does make one think of D&D and WoW.

 

I don't know if I would call Ghost Rider a cleric, but he fits the criteria. According to this list, he is. 

Thor is there.

Lois Lane? hmmmmm

 

Choosing to ignore someone who disagrees does not validate your perspective.

In truth, the sticking point was simply the name—a small point. And the request was polite.

And there was a request to see more; there was no dismissal. Again it was a polite request.

No /jranger

 

So I would love for the community to come up with a name threat that fits the AT.

Maybe a  new HEAT or VEAT, call it a Demigod ....

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by JasperStone
missing word and sentence structure

[Akisan]

Gonna have to agree with @Rudra here - having a Melee/Support AT would be neat, but the name is off-genre.  It'd be like introducing an Alchemist in Star Trek, or a High Technopriest in Camelot - a character with those abilities may fit the story, but they would seriously disrupt the tone of the work without being renamed and maybe slightly reworked. (I'd probably rename/rework them to Nanosurgeon and <Wizard or Oracle>, respectively)

 

A few possible names for the AT:

• Paragon
• Sapper/Saboteur (if AT is primarily based around debuffs)
• Scion

And a name & possible mechanic for the Inherent - Rally.  You deal more damage the more allies are around you, and your buffs/debuffs become stronger as more enemies are around you.

[Canadian Anvil]

36 minutes ago, Akisan said:

Gonna have to agree with @Rudra here - having a Melee/Support AT would be neat, but the name is off-genre.  It'd be like introducing an Alchemist in Star Trek, or a High Technopriest in Camelot - a character with those abilities may fit the story, but they would seriously disrupt the tone of the work without being renamed and maybe slightly reworked. (I'd probably rename/rework them to Nanosurgeon and <Wizard or Oracle>, respectively)

 

A few possible names for the AT:

• Paragon
• Sapper/Saboteur (if AT is primarily based around debuffs)
• Scion

And a name & possible mechanic for the Inherent - Rally.  You deal more damage the more allies are around you, and your buffs/debuffs become stronger as more enemies are around you.

I'm not addressing the name again. I already said call it whatever. It clearly states INSPIRED, and already said I don't care what you call it. It's a tertiary debate at best on what is(n't) canon, or, as implied, IMPOSED on others. Because it's all imposed on us from STALKER to CORRUPTOR. With that said, I'm done derailing this debate and moving on to something else. Later all, see you in the game as I fight a centuries old villain with Lex Luther level intelligence in a centuries old metal suit powered by a coal engine in the 21st Century. Cause it's canon!

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, srmalloy said:

But wouldn't creating a 'cleric archetype make CoH more accessible to people coming from other MMOs, for whom the Holy Trinity™ of tank, DPS, and heals has been so aggressively beaten into their brains that they can't conceive of an MMO where the character roles aren't so narrowly defined? On the other hand, creating an archetype that is intended to be Heal/Melee regardless of powersets pigeonholes that archetype much more narrowly than any other archetype in the game. The gripping hand is, do we really need such a specialized archetype when several of the existing archetypes can be built to specialize in healing if the player wants to?

You are misreading my comments. My first comment was in regards to the "cleric" archetype. Note that in that post, all I am asking for is a non-D&D name and justification. Any player can still take the AT and think of it and call it a cleric. That's roleplay or character concept. The imposition of that is what I requested not be done. I'm fine with the AT being developed.

 

The second post, the one you quoted, was in response to the author's comment suggesting bringing more D&D classes into CoX as ATs. Especially since most of those classes already exist in CoX under current ATs.

[Akisan]

2 hours ago, Canadian Anvil said:

Later all, see you in the game as I fight a centuries old villain with Lex Luther level intelligence in a centuries old metal suit powered by a coal engine in the 21st Century. Cause it's canon!

 

Lex Luthor is a wannabe compared to Nemesis.  That, and I'm pretty sure that suit's been updated within the past decade - it's still "steam powered", sure, but that steam could be from magic or a mini fusion reactor by now, so...

Anyways, back to the new AT:

 

Would the support/armor & support/melee powersets be better off with individual powers for both (that is, one armor power applies a strong AoE buff/debuff, and another has strong resistances), or better paired - a single power has a moderate AoE buff, with moderate resistances? Both of these styles could work, though combining effects will make it hard to skip powers, as well as making the build extremely strapped for enhancement slots.

 

When I proposed an (alternate) inherent earlier, I'd missed that you'd already proposed "Divine Blessing" as an inherent, and it's built by attacking.  I'd adjust its mechanics to instantly consume the blessing bar, instead of having it deplete when the blessing wears off.  This avoids one of the problems that Dominators have now - there's a huge difference between a permadom and someone who's only 5s off, because the non-perma dom has to rebuild their bar.  I'd probably also weaken the effect of the blessing (so there's not such a night and day difference between modes), and make it easier to build up (with shorter cooldown & effect length), as well as remove the out-of-combat decay.

 

As a personal preference though, I would avoid duplicating other AT's inherents, if possible.  They're part of the AT's identity, and it's awkward to copy that.

[Arc-Mage]

On 2/12/2023 at 12:18 AM, British Battler said:

Do you mean like the Guardian AT that Rebirth has?

Guardian is an unfinished AT that was in development when the game closed. I wouldn’t be surprised if it eventually makes it over to HC at some point if they can finish the animations.

[biostem]

On 2/12/2023 at 2:24 PM, Akisan said:

Would the support/armor & support/melee powersets be better off with individual powers for both (that is, one armor power applies a strong AoE buff/debuff, and another has strong resistances), or better paired - a single power has a moderate AoE buff, with moderate resistances? Both of these styles could work, though combining effects will make it hard to skip powers, as well as making the build extremely strapped for enhancement slots.

Another approach that could be very interesting is to go straight support/melee, with the class' schtick being that the buffs also benefit the caster, (either in full or at a slightly reduced effectiveness).  Then, you'd get your resistances and all the other stuff you'd basically need to survive whilst in melee...