Characters for backstory

[Clave Dark 5]

On 2/26/2023 at 1:58 AM, Rudra said:

I'm Spider-Man. I was bitten by a radioactive spider.

 

...

Yep, a really good bio there.

Once just an ordinary farmer living on the outer edges of the mystical Croatoa, one day he dug up a magical artifact that had all the denizens trying to chase him down to claim it for themselves.  But it's magical aura granted him supernatural powres and he became... STRAW-MAN!

 

You're really going to have to try harder if that's all you can come up with on short notice.

 

 

[Rudra]

You are missing the point of my comment.

[TheZag]

What problem does the text editor give?  Maybe i dont use it enough but im not having an issue when i do.

 

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, TheZag said:

What problem does the text editor give?  Maybe i dont use it enough but im not having an issue when i do.

 

Posting in list form for clarity:

 

The editor uses more than 1 character space for special characters. This includes foreign language letters if you are playing a transnational character with anything from your home nation. It also includes carriage returns, which is the Enter key for those unfamiliar with it. (While the Enter key does not show as more than 1 character when it is first input, it does show up later in editing.) This reduces available character count for the bio.

 

The editor loses what you are typing randomly. So you could be typing "Jeff found a ball.", and the editor would show "Jeff", but not the rest. It would just not appear. Your cursor would also disappear from the text box at this time. So in order to add further text, you have to re-click the text box. And that missing text you already typed? Would then randomly appear somewhere in your bio after you typed a little more. Usually, but not always, where you clicked in the text box to re-enable typing.

 

If you need to edit your bio later on, then simply opening the editor with your existing bio will add additional character spaces as already being used. This newly added character count cannot be removed because it is somewhere in the editor but not in the text box for how the editor is tracking the bio. This holds true even if you cut out the bio, paste it into a word processor, make your edits there, and copy the new bio back in. The mystery character count is re-applied to the bio upon pasting back in just as if you had simply edited the bio in the editor. However, this problem only occurs if you have special characters in the bio. And as a reminder, the Enter key is a special character.

 

Rarely, the editor suffers the second problem and that causes a new problem. The editor loses track of its own count. To the point where adding a single character can cause the editor to say you added over 100 characters. As I opened with for this one though, this is a rare occurrence. It only happened to me on a single occasion.

[EmperorSteele]

I think Enter is actually 4 characters, 8 if you have a space between paragraphs.

 

It's in html, so each line break would be presented internally as [Br], but with pointy brackets instead of square ones.

 

So yeah, you make your bio to the exact count, exit out, go back in and look, and whoopsie, the last couple words are missing!

[Greycat]

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

Posting in list form for clarity:

 

The editor uses more than 1 character space for special characters. This includes foreign language letters if you are playing a transnational character with anything from your home nation. It also includes carriage returns, which is the Enter key for those unfamiliar with it. (While the Enter key does not show as more than 1 character when it is first input, it does show up later in editing.) This reduces available character count for the bio.

 

The editor loses what you are typing randomly. So you could be typing "Jeff found a ball.", and the editor would show "Jeff", but not the rest. It would just not appear. Your cursor would also disappear from the text box at this time. So in order to add further text, you have to re-click the text box. And that missing text you already typed? Would then randomly appear somewhere in your bio after you typed a little more. Usually, but not always, where you clicked in the text box to re-enable typing.

 

If you need to edit your bio later on, then simply opening the editor with your existing bio will add additional character spaces as already being used. This newly added character count cannot be removed because it is somewhere in the editor but not in the text box for how the editor is tracking the bio. This holds true even if you cut out the bio, paste it into a word processor, make your edits there, and copy the new bio back in. The mystery character count is re-applied to the bio upon pasting back in just as if you had simply edited the bio in the editor. However, this problem only occurs if you have special characters in the bio. And as a reminder, the Enter key is a special character.

 

Rarely, the editor suffers the second problem and that causes a new problem. The editor loses track of its own count. To the point where adding a single character can cause the editor to say you added over 100 characters. As I opened with for this one though, this is a rare occurrence. It only happened to me on a single occasion.

 

All of this. And as mentioned, it also affects the AE editor, where you'll often be tying longer lengths of text for mission briefings, sendoffs, clues, etc.  (And which, unlike the way it acts in the bio editor, you can also go back to edit and have line breaks completely removed, everything jumbled together with <br>and the like exposed.)

[TheZag]

I cant say there is a fix for all those things,  but all my problems with text disappearing and reappearing elsewhere were solved when i stopped clicking in the text box.  I use the arrow keys to move the cursor around and the editor has been cooperating.

 

[Rudra]

5 minutes ago, TheZag said:

I cant say there is a fix for all those things,  but all my problems with text disappearing and reappearing elsewhere were solved when i stopped clicking in the text box.  I use the arrow keys to move the cursor around and the editor has been cooperating.

 

I do too, except it doesn't fix the problem for me. I find using the arrow keys to be a faster way for me to navigate my bios than clicking, so I use them. A lot. (Edit: Mostly because of how the text box scrolls, or rather, fails to scroll, when I am putting any data in it. Which is a fifth problem with the editor I failed to list above. The text box does not scroll to keep up with player provided data.) And the editor still randomly stops accepting my text inputs, requiring me to click the text box to enable text inputs again, only for the missing text to randomly show up after I type a few more inputs.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Rudra

[kito]

11 hours ago, Crossie said:

What if I have taken a vow of silence and there is a compelling reason to do so but simply can't share it with only 1,000 characters! It will literally break the game.

you can still wright in a vow of Silence I think?

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, kito said:

you can still wright in a vow of Silence I think?

I think you can too. Pretty sure it is not typically encouraged as the point is to avoid direct communication, but I also think it is not prohibited either.

 

1 hour ago, kito said:

  11 hours ago, Crossie said:

What if I have taken a vow of silence and there is a compelling reason to do so but simply can't share it with only 1,000 characters! It will literally break the game.

Why would you need more than 1,023 characters to explain why you have taken a vow of silence? I mean, I understand it can be difficult to keep a bio under 1,023 characters from time to time, but that line of reasoning is lost on me.

 

(I had a character on Live that I will eventually bring back on HC that could not speak. It was impossible for that character to speak. [The character communicated via gestures and somehow totally freaked out one of the teams I ran the character on. They just stood at a mission entrance and watched the character for some reason, making comments about being freaked out before commenting they probably should join the character in battle before the character decided they were better off as plant food than allies.] The character was a plant that had assimilated a human but had not figured out human processes. And that bio? Took me 965 characters which included a full report title, multi-definition fictitious dictionary entry of the character name, and a 3-section report on the character. I would think explaining a vow of silence wouldn't be more difficult than that. [Edit: Though I do have to admit it took me a long time to work the bio down to that level from what I had originally planned.])

Edited February 28, 2023 by Rudra

[Yomo Kimyata]

11 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

Once just an ordinary farmer living on the outer edges of the mystical Croatoa, one day he dug up a magical artifact that had all the denizens trying to chase him down to claim it for themselves.  But it's magical aura granted him supernatural powres and he became... STRAW-MAN!

 

You're really going to have to try harder if that's all you can come up with on short notice.

 

 

 

I have at least one character that was bitten by a radioactive straw.  Broke her back.

[Clave Dark 5]

A radioactive straw?  That must suck for her.

[0th Power]

Yea, it was probably the last one too...

[Crossie]

11 hours ago, Rudra said:

I think you can too. Pretty sure it is not typically encouraged as the point is to avoid direct communication, but I also think it is not prohibited either.

 

Why would you need more than 1,023 characters to explain why you have taken a vow of silence? I mean, I understand it can be difficult to keep a bio under 1,023 characters from time to time, but that line of reasoning is lost on me.

 

(I had a character on Live that I will eventually bring back on HC that could not speak. It was impossible for that character to speak. [The character communicated via gestures and somehow totally freaked out one of the teams I ran the character on. They just stood at a mission entrance and watched the character for some reason, making comments about being freaked out before commenting they probably should join the character in battle before the character decided they were better off as plant food than allies.] The character was a plant that had assimilated a human but had not figured out human processes. And that bio? Took me 965 characters which included a full report title, multi-definition fictitious dictionary entry of the character name, and a 3-section report on the character. I would think explaining a vow of silence wouldn't be more difficult than that. [Edit: Though I do have to admit it took me a long time to work the bio down to that level from what I had originally planned.])

If you knew you were never going to speak again but you had the ability to draft your story, and that is all anybody will ever know about you, I would wager you'd be hard pressed to write everything you need to write in 1023 characters or less.  

[huang3721]

1 hour ago, Crossie said:

If you knew you were never going to speak again but you had the ability to draft your story, and that is all anybody will ever know about you, I would wager you'd be hard pressed to write everything you need to write in 1023 characters or less.  

 

I don't think so. In this case, people will write much less. Have you ever seen an epitaph?

Nobody is going to remember your 1023++ characters biography. Best case scenario: they can only recall a few words. Worst case scenario: they get discouraged by its length and walk away without reading.

 

Your best bet is to write a few sentences that describe your character. If it is remarkable, people will remember those few words forever. 

 

By the way, I heard something get derailed somewhere.

[Crossie]

32 minutes ago, huang3721 said:

 

I don't think so. In this case, people will write much less. Have you ever seen an epitaph?

Nobody is going to remember your 1023++ characters biography. Best case scenario: they can only recall a few words. Worst case scenario: they get discouraged by its length and walk away without reading.

 

Your best bet is to write a few sentences that describe your character. If it is remarkable, people will remember those few words forever. 

 

By the way, I heard something get derailed somewhere.

 

I mean - If you don't want to read it and I want to write it, what's the big deal?  Nobody loses, everybody wins.  

[Rudra]

5 hours ago, Crossie said:

If you knew you were never going to speak again but you had the ability to draft your story, and that is all anybody will ever know about you, I would wager you'd be hard pressed to write everything you need to write in 1023 characters or less.  

If I knew I was never going to speak again but wanted people to know about me? I would make a brief introductory card I could hand the people. If I wanted them to know my life story, regardless of whether I was going to speak again or not? I would write an autobiography and see about getting it published. And if your idea of telling people you meet who you are is a full autobiography instead of a short summary so they understand you "can't" speak? You're going to drive them off as a psycho when you go to pull out your autobiography as introduction.

 

(Also, I looked up if people are permitted to write if they take a vow of silence. And it turns out that not only is writing perfectly okay, but so is talking. The thing is, if there is a need for a person under a vow of silence to speak, such as by giving someone a warning they are about to be hit by a vehicle, then it is permitted for the person under a vow of silence to speak, even yell, to affect the situation. I looked it up. It was a very short search on Google.)

 

Your argument is unraveling fast. I better understand the opposition to the OP now.

 

My advice? Review your intended bio. Remove unnecessary fluff. Condense what you can and re-write other parts to make them shorter. There is more than 1 way to say something in text. Example:

Statement 1: Jane's new starship can reach speeds of Warp 91.6, has 30 laser cannons, 14 plasma cannons, 6 ion cannons, 12.8 meters of stellarium armor, class 17 shields, 4 shuttles, and 12 fighters.

Statement 2: Jane's new starship is insanely fast and powerful.

 

People can ask you exactly how fast and powerful her new ship is, but it is not necessary for conveying that her new ship is over-the-top capable in the initial notice. And you save a lot of space with the second version.

 

Edit: The point is, a vow of silence is not a vow to not communicate. You can write anything you want any time you want to anyone you want any way you want, and it does not break the vow. You can even speak to others if there is a need for it, and it still does not break the vow. And regardless of how you envision your vow of silence or what triggered it, you don't need a full autobiography to tell others about your vow and what caused it. Simplify and condense as much as you can.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Rudra

[0th Power]

Just thinking about this...  The title of this thread should have been, "Characters for backstory for characters"

Edited February 28, 2023 by 0th Power

[Greycat]

5 hours ago, huang3721 said:

 

Nobody is going to remember your 1023++ characters biography. Best case scenario: they can only recall a few words. Worst case scenario: they get discouraged by its length and walk away without reading.

 

If *1023* characters is considered "too much to read," there are much bigger problems to deal with than character bios in a video game.

 

"Oog hit." "tldr." 😉

[biostem]

19 minutes ago, Greycat said:

If *1023* characters is considered "too much to read,"

I wouldn't say it's a matter of 1023 characters being too much to read, rather if I am that interested in someone else's character's backstory, I'd be fully willing to go to an external resource, where it would be easier to read, with better formatting and a cleaner presentation.  Sell me on the character with a short, poignant description, which is accessible to far more people, and include a "read more" link or such for those that want a full biography...

Edited February 28, 2023 by biostem

[kito]

I apologize for the long letter - If I had the time I would have written a shorter one. 

 Mark Twain (I think)

 

The more time you have the more you can boil down your bio.  I don't read any bio that can't grab me in the first paragraph or so IDC how long it is.

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

I wouldn't say it's a matter of 1023 characters being too much to read, rather if I am that interested in someone else's character's backstory, I'd be fully willing to go to an external resource, where it would be easier to read, with better formatting and a cleaner presentation.  Sell me on the character with a short, poignant description, which is accessible to far more people, and include a "read more" link or such for those that want a full biography...

 

You missed the point of the comment. It was, admittedly, me being a smartass. 😉

 

THat said, if you think "link somewhere else" works... fine, we should allow active links (since copying is hit and miss... hell, highlighting is hit and miss) in bios, at least to the FBSA wiki. Ideally we'd also have a CIT handy.

 

Also, that length is often used for more than just a bio - like important notes for anyone trying to walk up for RP (or doing something else - "Walk up welcome/not welcome," "No, you cannot read this character's mind," "Interested in a SG, we do interviews, talk to @ this person," "Public events every thursday, basecode xyz-12345, music at link" - which also eats up space and is not uncommon.

 

Edit: Mind, it would *only* be allowing live links to FBSA or a CIT type site, not live links in general - I'd call it a security risk otherwise.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Greycat

[Luminara]

The bio is the synopsis on the back of the hardcover jacket.  The splash page on the comic cover.  The teaser trailer for the film.  It's there to catch the eye, excite the imagination, draw the reader in, incite interest.  It doesn't need to be longer, it just needs to be used well enough to get the fish to nibble.  Then the story unfolds through in-game interaction.

 

The best fiction doesn't delve into detail, it creates a framework and allows the reader to fill in the blanks.

[Grouchybeast]

I like reading characters' bios, but I like reading short bios.  I'm happy to read a bio in the time it takes for the monorail to arrive and my character and the character next to me to run inside, or to look at the rest of the team's bios while I'm waiting for a TF to start and I've run out of things to do on the AH.  That's enough character info for me.

 

Definitely fix the editor, though.

[Crossie]

On 2/28/2023 at 1:17 PM, Rudra said:

If I knew I was never going to speak again but wanted people to know about me? I would make a brief introductory card I could hand the people. If I wanted them to know my life story, regardless of whether I was going to speak again or not? I would write an autobiography and see about getting it published. And if your idea of telling people you meet who you are is a full autobiography instead of a short summary so they understand you "can't" speak? You're going to drive them off as a psycho when you go to pull out your autobiography as introduction.

 

(Also, I looked up if people are permitted to write if they take a vow of silence. And it turns out that not only is writing perfectly okay, but so is talking. The thing is, if there is a need for a person under a vow of silence to speak, such as by giving someone a warning they are about to be hit by a vehicle, then it is permitted for the person under a vow of silence to speak, even yell, to affect the situation. I looked it up. It was a very short search on Google.)

 

Your argument is unraveling fast. I better understand the opposition to the OP now.

 

My advice? Review your intended bio. Remove unnecessary fluff. Condense what you can and re-write other parts to make them shorter. There is more than 1 way to say something in text. Example:

Statement 1: Jane's new starship can reach speeds of Warp 91.6, has 30 laser cannons, 14 plasma cannons, 6 ion cannons, 12.8 meters of stellarium armor, class 17 shields, 4 shuttles, and 12 fighters.

Statement 2: Jane's new starship is insanely fast and powerful.

 

People can ask you exactly how fast and powerful her new ship is, but it is not necessary for conveying that her new ship is over-the-top capable in the initial notice. And you save a lot of space with the second version.

 

Edit: The point is, a vow of silence is not a vow to not communicate. You can write anything you want any time you want to anyone you want any way you want, and it does not break the vow. You can even speak to others if there is a need for it, and it still does not break the vow. And regardless of how you envision your vow of silence or what triggered it, you don't need a full autobiography to tell others about your vow and what caused it. Simplify and condense as much as you can.

Not really - You are applying real life applications to an online world regarding a vow of silence.  No such thing as a defined definition as it applies to COH.  The million dollar question which you decided to ignore is....  If the story is too long and you don't want to read it, what's the big deal if I choose to write a long story?  I get what I want and you get what you want.  Win Win.  Surely you aren't upset because people MAY be writing long back stories you won't read anyway?