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2023 HC Base Contest - Discussion


Romeyn

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On 2/22/2023 at 4:27 AM, Sun said:

Now then, I'll leave you with one final vision:

 

Two players are engaged in a discussion, with a couple witnesses about, in AP:

 

Player 1: "Hey I see you won the Base Building Contest. Congratulations!"

Player 2: "Ahhh yes, Thank you. I see you won too! Congratulations to you too, and well done!"

"Thanks!"

"I won in X Category, UNDER Y number of items."

"Ahhh very interesting. I too won in X Category, only I won in... OVER Y number of items."

"Ahhh I see…"

Witness 1 to Witness 2, “Player 1’s is bigger than Player 2’s, let’s go look at his first.”

Uh huh.”

 

I will leave it to you, Good Readers, to assess the outcome of such a discussion, and upon whom, in secret, the greater or lesser esteem is placed...

 

Monk of Indom

 

Switch the random hypothetical and the outcome is different. Maybe those random witnesses are more impressed by someone creating a small but meticulous base? Impressed that the person was able to limit themselves and still create something award-winning.

What's I think is more likely though is that they go check out both.

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Ok Dacy, lol, we will simply disagree and call it a day. And that is okay, for we all come to the wisdom bridge on our path where we learn one who disagrees with us is not a threat, but simply someone who sees things a little differently, who could actually be our friend, and from whom we might learn a thing or two :).

However, so long as you apply this lay view of "more things = bigger and better" I'm gonna have to not join this, or any other community event so managed. Which is kinda sad because I was thinking about taking part, maybe. But that’s life! (As you can tell, these are only my first three posts to this forum, as I don't do social media. Rather, the game is my social media. Looks like I'm off to a great start!).

I will, however, wish all participants utmost joy and success. Y'all have fun.

Good luck,
Monk of Indom

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1 hour ago, Sun said:

Ok Dacy, lol, we will simply disagree and call it a day. And that is okay, for we all come to the wisdom bridge on our path where we learn one who disagrees with us is not a threat, but simply someone who sees things a little differently, who could actually be our friend, and from whom we might learn a thing or two :).

However, so long as you apply this lay view of "more things = bigger and better" I'm gonna have to not join this, or any other community event so managed. Which is kinda sad because I was thinking about taking part, maybe. But that’s life! (As you can tell, these are only my first three posts to this forum, as I don't do social media. Rather, the game is my social media. Looks like I'm off to a great start!).

I will, however, wish all participants utmost joy and success. Y'all have fun.

Good luck,
Monk of Indom

Where are you getting "more things=bigger and better" from? There's the same amount of "smaller is better"/"less is more" categories.

Edited by Wravis
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Baffled

 

Oooookay, Monk… whatever. I don’t know how I could have been more clear that “bigger=better” is NOT the belief here nor the practice nor the judging criteria, and that the categories are merely there to give as many types of bases the opportunity to shine as possible, but clearly, that either is not how you understand things after a fair bit of explanation, or it’s how you choose to see things for whatever reasons, but no one requires you to enter, certainly.   

 

It’s a bit annoying …sorry, frustrating… to have someone insist that we are somehow favoring and promoting bigger bases as better when we have bent over backwards to make all types and sizes of bases on equal ground for this, and we’ll have no “runner ups” or second place bases; all categories will have a top base and all titles are the same, but it seems clear from commentary that you seem alone in this interpretation. Also I realize, we can’t and won’t please everyone; and fortunately there will be other contests. 
 

Out of my inherent curiosity, how would you set up categories so as to cover the most bases possible without favoring one type over another? Also out of curiosity, did you in fact look at the rubric?

 

-Dacy

 

(Upon reflection that I should have done before posting, I realize my tone was a bit saltier than I meant for it to be, and I apologize for that. I realize you are just communicating your perspective, and that’s good to do. )

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4 hours ago, Dacy said:

It’s a bit annoying to have someone insist that we are somehow favoring and promoting bigger bases

 

cave de novo foro usuario qui tendunt ad conflictum incitandum

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If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they may be on ignore.

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Some players know that I have them on ignore and are likely to make posts knowing that is the case.

But the fact that I have them on ignore won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it. There is a group that have banded together to target forum posters they don't like. They think that this behavior is acceptable.

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Well, the number is somewhat arbitrary. We had thought maybe 10,000, which is half, but we realized that most bases were not that big. In truth, we didn’t have much reference for the sizes of bases that were impressive. And this is a contest. We are looking for the most impressive bases, and we were trying to come up with categories that gave several different types of bases a place to shine.  Just a note, of the winners where I know the number of items from the last contest, they are all over 10 K.  So 7K seem like a good number of items, but yet under the number where most bases were when they won last time, which gives people who limit themselves on item placement a place to shine, without restricting it too much.  
 

-Dacy

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1 hour ago, Dacy said:

Well, the number is somewhat arbitrary. We had thought maybe 10,000, which is half, but we realized that most bases were not that big. In truth, we didn’t have much reference for the sizes of bases that were impressive. And this is a contest. We are looking for the most impressive bases, and we were trying to come up with categories that gave several different types of bases a place to shine.  Just a note, of the winners where I know the number of items from the last contest, they are all over 10 K.  So 7K seem like a good number of items, but yet under the number where most bases were when they won last time, which gives people who limit themselves on item placement a place to shine, without restricting it too much.  
 

-Dacy

thats cool I was just wondering, I know plot size mine are on the smaller size, so i couldn't imagine 7k in any of them (one only has 321, and sits on the original 2x2 entrance)

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21 hours ago, Dacy said:

And this is a contest. We are looking for the most impressive bases, and we were trying to come up with categories that gave several different types of bases a place to shine.

 

I would make at least 1 category that is for bases that don't build "outside"/"on top" of the base.

 

 

If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they may be on ignore.

(It seems I'm involved with so much at this point that I may not be able to easily retrieve access to all the notifications)

Some players know that I have them on ignore and are likely to make posts knowing that is the case.

But the fact that I have them on ignore won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it. There is a group that have banded together to target forum posters they don't like. They think that this behavior is acceptable.

Ignore (in the forums) and /ignore (in-game) are tools to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using them.

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13 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

I would make at least 1 category that is for bases that don't build "outside"/"on top" of the base.

 

 

I'm not saying that it's a bad idea but I'm curious why you think that distinction is needed.

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3 minutes ago, Wravis said:

I'm not saying that it's a bad idea but I'm curious why you think that distinction is needed.

 

I think that there are probably more base builders that don't build outside of the base than do and obviously someone that builds outside of a base is building a  more "impressive" base to many base viewers/tourists.

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If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they may be on ignore.

(It seems I'm involved with so much at this point that I may not be able to easily retrieve access to all the notifications)

Some players know that I have them on ignore and are likely to make posts knowing that is the case.

But the fact that I have them on ignore won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it. There is a group that have banded together to target forum posters they don't like. They think that this behavior is acceptable.

Ignore (in the forums) and /ignore (in-game) are tools to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using them.

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5 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

I think that there are probably more base builders that don't build outside of the base than do and obviously someone that builds outside of a base is building a  more "impressive" base to many base viewers/tourists.

I'm not sure how obvious or true that is! There's nothing inherently more impressive about it, is there? The only real instant benefit is outdoor bases not having walls around everything. But you trade those walls for endless void.

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Dacy... It’s aaaaall good my beautiful person, it's aaaall gonna be ok :D *smiles big and reaches out for a big hug.* I bring no ego to the table to bruise. We all know this is a game, right?. RL that is. What, you thought I was talking about the game? I understand it's hard enough tryna put this thing together without some KNUCKLEHEAD (me) walkin up in here throwin a monkey wrench in everything. That was absolutely not my intent, and I'm sorry. And yes I’m the minority here. I’m always the minority. That’s my job in life.

It is also not my intent as a new forum user to incite conflict (wink).

I was not going to post again here due to the above. However, since you asked, I guess I will (everybody groans). I also realized, or remembered, yesterday there are these little clicky things down at the bottom of our posts where you can help or hurt someone without actually saying anything. Weeeiiird. I’m reminded of the telepathic mutants, made so by BA (Before Apocalypse, terrible times those) human toxicity, in Planet of the Apes 2 up there chanting, ‘Guilty! Guilty! Guilty!

In order to answer them, however, and in case some of our readers needed a TLDR, I will recap. Is this not the best place to have such a discussion? If not, are you fluent in smoke signals? Okay good:

1. Item number does not equal size. Plot size does.

2. Item number does not equal quality.

3. Item number does not equal builder skill.

4. We all have access to the same stuff, and everything is free. Therefore, and finally,

5. No one has any clear advantage over anyone else.

 

(Note ‘size’ to the casual walk-in observer will also depend on how the builder has leveraged his or her interior and exterior space, but this is all you got).

Therefore, to answer your question, I would have... no categories.

 

And yes your rubric is well done, thank you :).

As a leader, Dacy you will or already have learned you will not please everyone, no matter how hard you try. That's life! So stop trying, And they'll get over it, or not. Just look at me, this is only my fourth post and already I’ve racked up a few Guilties from the toxic mutants (from the show, of course), while your display of anger as CR earned you multiple Not Guilties, lol. Such is the nature of human social media, and why I avoid it.

However, if suggested by the community, I would have SEPARATE CONTESTS for maybe these categories (you decide, you're the master, I just dabble :)). Gives us something to do doesn't it?:

Bases Above a Certain Plot Size Threshold

Bases Below a Certain Plot Size Threshold

Pure Works of Art

Pure Utilitarian

Both (including anywhere in-between)

RP (whatever THAT is (I'M KIDDING, maybe))

Scottish Ox Farming

Alien Landing Sites and Communication (primer a definite plus)

Formal Speed-Walking

Superhero Comedy Stand-Ups, with Props, and finally and most importantly,

Napping
...

I think that about covers everything you need.

Kinda like maybe...

"Goooood day ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, heroes and villains, supers and dupers, it is TIIIME to announce next month’s Super Duper Base Contest! Yes indeed all my good superbuilders out there step right up step right up! (Watch it kid ya crowdin me, careful with that pencil, there ya go).

 

"Aaaaand the moment you’ve all been waitin for! Next month’s Base Contest category will BE...drum roll please? “Patumptptptptptptptptptpt CRASH! Bow bow bow boink!” (Drum rolls across the stage, bounces and falls to the floor while the announcer eyes it…silence...).

 

Ahem... Next month’s Base Contest category will BE!… Pure Works of Art UNDER Plot Size blah blah blah! (Trumpets ring out tada! And crowd cheers).

 

Thaaat’s right lackeys and gentlesupers, if you’ve ever groaned under the wicked onus of placing those troublesome toilets (and who HASN’T amirite?), those worrisome workbenches, and those vexing vendors, why NOW’S your time to shine my one-in-a-million friend. Thaaat’s right THIS contest is straight from YOUR twisted mind and ONLY yours to us the ever-so-fortunate judges! So sign up today! (Yeah son, sign right there, n- no kid righ… yeah right there, on the dotted line, GIMME that, and the pencil too, yeah, no pay no attention to the tiny print behind the curtain, that’s just an eye test. Right).

 

What’s that you say? This contest is not for you? Whyyyyy worry not my muscle-brained meta type there’s another Super Duper Base Contest coming to a Void near you faster than you can say SHAZAM!”

Or something like that, probably less stupid. I don't know. Will you satisfy some people? Sure. Will you mess somebody's day up? Probably.

K let me get up outta here so y'all can get back to work. I have not been as attentive (for me) as usual as I have a new friend, a cat! So she and I are getting used to the new situation :).

Bye,
Monk of Indom

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6 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I think that there are probably more base builders that don't build outside of the base than do and obviously someone that builds outside of a base is building a  more "impressive" base to many base viewers/tourists.

 This is definitely not something I want to feed into.

And, of the last winners in order of placing: Grimmsel College, inside the base. Simulacrum, outside the base.  Invincible Ones, both in and around the base. Rat City, at that time entirely inside the base, currently has some parts outside the base. Paragon Galleria, inside the base. The Pagoda, outside the base. So, 2/3s of the winners had the bulk of their base inside the base.

 

Personally, while I've built both inside and outside the base, I prefer inside, when I can. The greatly reduced base shift and lighting advantages are hard to give up! Plus, I enjoy the challenge of disguising the base walls.

 

-Dacy

 

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On 2/25/2023 at 1:41 PM, Sun said:

Dacy... It’s aaaaall good my beautiful person, it's aaaall gonna be ok 😄 *smiles big and reaches out for a big hug.* I bring no ego to the table to bruise. We all know this is a game, right?. RL that is. What, you thought I was talking about the game? I understand it's hard enough tryna put this thing together without some KNUCKLEHEAD (me) walkin up in here throwin a monkey wrench in everything. That was absolutely not my intent, and I'm sorry. And yes I’m the minority here. I’m always the minority. That’s my job in life.

It is also not my intent as a new forum user to incite conflict (wink).

I was not going to post again here due to the above. However, since you asked, I guess I will (everybody groans). I also realized, or remembered, yesterday there are these little clicky things down at the bottom of our posts where you can help or hurt someone without actually saying anything. Weeeiiird. I’m reminded of the telepathic mutants, made so by BA (Before Apocalypse, terrible times those) human toxicity, in Planet of the Apes 2 up there chanting, ‘Guilty! Guilty! Guilty!

In order to answer them, however, and in case some of our readers needed a TLDR, I will recap. Is this not the best place to have such a discussion? If not, are you fluent in smoke signals? Okay good:

1. Item number does not equal size. Plot size does.

2. Item number does not equal quality.

3. Item number does not equal builder skill.

4. We all have access to the same stuff, and everything is free. Therefore, and finally,

5. No one has any clear advantage over anyone else.

 

(Note ‘size’ to the casual walk-in observer will also depend on how the builder has leveraged his or her interior and exterior space, but this is all you got).

Therefore, to answer your question, I would have... no categories.

 

And yes your rubric is well done, thank you 🙂.

As a leader, Dacy you will or already have learned you will not please everyone, no matter how hard you try. That's life! So stop trying, And they'll get over it, or not. Just look at me, this is only my fourth post and already I’ve racked up a few Guilties from the toxic mutants (from the show, of course), while your display of anger as CR earned you multiple Not Guilties, lol. Such is the nature of human social media, and why I avoid it.

However, if suggested by the community, I would have SEPARATE CONTESTS for maybe these categories (you decide, you're the master, I just dabble :)). Gives us something to do doesn't it?:

Bases Above a Certain Plot Size Threshold

Bases Below a Certain Plot Size Threshold

Pure Works of Art

Pure Utilitarian

Both (including anywhere in-between)

RP (whatever THAT is (I'M KIDDING, maybe))

Scottish Ox Farming

Alien Landing Sites and Communication (primer a definite plus)

Formal Speed-Walking

Superhero Comedy Stand-Ups, with Props, and finally and most importantly,

Napping
...

I think that about covers everything you need.

Kinda like maybe...

"Goooood day ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, heroes and villains, supers and dupers, it is TIIIME to announce next month’s Super Duper Base Contest! Yes indeed all my good superbuilders out there step right up step right up! (Watch it kid ya crowdin me, careful with that pencil, there ya go).

 

"Aaaaand the moment you’ve all been waitin for! Next month’s Base Contest category will BE...drum roll please? “Patumptptptptptptptptptpt CRASH! Bow bow bow boink!” (Drum rolls across the stage, bounces and falls to the floor while the announcer eyes it…silence...).

 

Ahem... Next month’s Base Contest category will BE!… Pure Works of Art UNDER Plot Size blah blah blah! (Trumpets ring out tada! And crowd cheers).

 

Thaaat’s right lackeys and gentlesupers, if you’ve ever groaned under the wicked onus of placing those troublesome toilets (and who HASN’T amirite?), those worrisome workbenches, and those vexing vendors, why NOW’S your time to shine my one-in-a-million friend. Thaaat’s right THIS contest is straight from YOUR twisted mind and ONLY yours to us the ever-so-fortunate judges! So sign up today! (Yeah son, sign right there, n- no kid righ… yeah right there, on the dotted line, GIMME that, and the pencil too, yeah, no pay no attention to the tiny print behind the curtain, that’s just an eye test. Right).

 

What’s that you say? This contest is not for you? Whyyyyy worry not my muscle-brained meta type there’s another Super Duper Base Contest coming to a Void near you faster than you can say SHAZAM!”

Or something like that, probably less stupid. I don't know. Will you satisfy some people? Sure. Will you mess somebody's day up? Probably.

K let me get up outta here so y'all can get back to work. I have not been as attentive (for me) as usual as I have a new friend, a cat! So she and I are getting used to the new situation :).

Bye,
Monk of Indom

( ° ͜ʖ °)

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On 2/25/2023 at 10:19 AM, Wravis said:

I'm not sure how obvious or true that is! There's nothing inherently more impressive about it, is there?

 

You asked why I made a suggestion. I answered.

You did not like my answer to you questioning my suggestion. You are arguing with my opinion with your opinion.

 

I didn't ask for your opinion. You asked for mine.

 

I made a suggestion. The Community Leaders can think about it. They are the ones that will make the decision.

 

 

 

 

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If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they may be on ignore.

(It seems I'm involved with so much at this point that I may not be able to easily retrieve access to all the notifications)

Some players know that I have them on ignore and are likely to make posts knowing that is the case.

But the fact that I have them on ignore won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it. There is a group that have banded together to target forum posters they don't like. They think that this behavior is acceptable.

Ignore (in the forums) and /ignore (in-game) are tools to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using them.

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On 2/25/2023 at 4:44 PM, Dacy said:

This is definitely not something I want to feed into.

 

You are one of the Base Community Reps.

I think you would get more participants if the next base building contest has category divisions for all inside bases, but you make the calls.

 

I made a suggestion.

If you want people to make suggestions, maybe respond to the suggestions rather backing someone that nitpicking with some making a suggestion. 

 

In what way is making separate categories for inside and outside base and/or a mixture of the two taking away from a base contest?

I don't see it as any different than having separate categories for item counts.

If these 2 or three categories were options in the contest you indicated then those same bases would have won in the respective inside, mix, and outside categories.

 

I'm not sure how this is taking away from anything or causing contention other than poster questioning me on why thought it was a good idea arguing with me.

I said how I felt about the situation. There are those that are going to agree and disagree with me.

 

It's a matter of how inclusive and how exclusive that base contest is going to be.

If people think the bar is too high, they aren't even going to try.

 

That being said I love to check out the bases in the base contests.

 

And I'll bow out of this thread.

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If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they may be on ignore.

(It seems I'm involved with so much at this point that I may not be able to easily retrieve access to all the notifications)

Some players know that I have them on ignore and are likely to make posts knowing that is the case.

But the fact that I have them on ignore won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it. There is a group that have banded together to target forum posters they don't like. They think that this behavior is acceptable.

Ignore (in the forums) and /ignore (in-game) are tools to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using them.

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27 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

You asked why I made a suggestion. I answered.

You did not like my answer to you questioning my suggestion. You are arguing with my opinion with your opinion.

 

I didn't ask for your opinion. You asked for mine.

 

I made a suggestion. The Community Leaders can think about it. They are the ones that will make the decision.

 

 

 

 

There's no need to get belligerent. This is a forum. People discuss things.

You gave your opinion and I wanted clarification on why you think there's a benefit of building out of the base. I even thumbed up your post because I thought it is potentially a good point. But instead of clarifying you threw a fit. 🤷‍♂️

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Geeze... I came to check out the newest entries and got excited when I saw this forum was up to three pages. Then I start reading...

Dacy and EB are trying to do something nice for us, you guys. They put A LOOOOOOT of work into this, and they didn't have to. Maybe we should just... you know... be nice to each other and be thankful that this event is happening at all? This is all for fun. Let's enjoy it together, yeah? ^-^

Just a thought from a random person on the internet.

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7 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

I made a suggestion.

If you want people to make suggestions, maybe respond to the suggestions rather backing someone that nitpicking with some making a suggestion. 

 

Well, Ultra, you are right, I did ask for suggestions. And I was responding; not the way you liked, obviously, but you make a valid point in that I did not make your suggestion feel valued, and for that, I apologize. I think I was fine until you went on about how a base built outside the bounds was somehow more impressive, which, as I indicated, I do not agree with at all.  That made it less about building in or out of bounds and more about separating the types of bases because one was better than the other. Which is not a concept I'm comfortable with, nor is it one I wish to promote.

 

For me, categories are to help with judging. We have so many unique and inventive concepts out there! (This group rocks the creative HARD). Sometimes it is difficult, personally, to think of comparing, say, a city section with a fantasy setting, or a hugely complex base built to function, with an intricate work of art. So, I make distinctions. I make categories. This helps with judging so I'm comparing apples to apples, so to speak, and it helps with who will win prizes, because the judge who likes apples also has to rank the oranges, and oranges aren't better or worse than apples, they're just...oranges, not apples.

 

So, as to making categories for builds inside or outside of a base, I personally don't see enough of a difference to make that category make sense to me; hopefully that makes sense.  I hadn't ever considered it a real difference, but I will think on it as a suggestion.  After having several people express various negatives about item count divisions, I'm going to be thinking hard about future categories. I'm quite sure we will never make everyone happy, but I want to make sure that we're not unintentionally making a statement we don't actually mean to, either.

 

I did not want to discourage participation (although I could wish that the discussion was happening in a different thread so this one could be more for entries.)

 

-Dacy

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7 hours ago, Wravis said:

This is a forum.

 

I'm no longer participating in this thread.

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If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they may be on ignore.

(It seems I'm involved with so much at this point that I may not be able to easily retrieve access to all the notifications)

Some players know that I have them on ignore and are likely to make posts knowing that is the case.

But the fact that I have them on ignore won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it. There is a group that have banded together to target forum posters they don't like. They think that this behavior is acceptable.

Ignore (in the forums) and /ignore (in-game) are tools to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using them.

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3 hours ago, Dacy said:

 

(although I could wish that the discussion was happening in a different thread so this one could be more for entries.

 

-Dacy


Agreed.  Hopefully players coming to just check out the contest entries, will be patient enough to skip over all the discussion/debate posts to find the entries. 

Perhaps next contest have a discussion thread and an entry thread.


 

Edited by Emerald Fusion
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Several? You're talking to...other monks? Great! :). Also, maybe not a bad idea to make an actual 'Discussion' thread, up to you. (The more I think about this the more I agree Dacy). GM, consider this, if you would. Let's have two threads, a clean registry, and a discussion.

 

I feel both UltraAlt and Wravis make valid points regarding building bases in, out, around, and round about the borders of Fantasia. On the one hand Ultra makes a valid suggestion about maybe creating categories for each, and he asks a fair question. And on the other Wravis certainly states a good point that in the end it doesn't matter, that maybe your 110 floor skyscraper ain't no better than my grandma's kitchen garden. And on the final point Dacy want's to steer clear of such a distinction, much like I advised her to steer clear of the item number thing, because it is essentially meaningless and of the prejudice it might foster, and I absolutely honor that. I'm with her on that one. (Forgive me guys if I put words in your mouth).

 

What about this y'all: Have a core set of categories (if you must) which kinda remain the same, then have a couple 'Special of the Month™! (with purchase)' categories for fun and stuff. Like inner, outer bases, and themes, like my Napping.

 

Please remember this guys: While Dacy and Easter Bunny have tried their honorable BEST to write a rubric that is fair, comprehensive, and objective (I see their desire to attain that meta view of equality in their work) these kinds of contests, just like a CC, are about the judge, not YOU, not your skirt, and not your dad jokes. So don't get your shorts in a bunch if she doesn't pick your forty two thousand-piece model of the Mayflower run aground in the Secret Cow Level as A-Number-One. That's life! So you're off the hook! You can now sit back and enjoy the show :). And if the master walks in, takes a look around, and happens to select yours as a winner, then you can rightly and justly feel honored. Because her passion, her mastery, her talent, and her unconditional commitment to our community is... mighty.

 

Mighty.

 

(Get a hold of that temper though girl, you is a CR now :)),

Monk of Indom

Edited by Sun
I forgot a period.
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The Monkpath is the path of Love and compassion. I invite you to see what's around the next bend. - Monk

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