Dark melee/?

[bigmarty]

Howdy folks. I was wanting to give dark melee a whirl but can’t decide between /ice or /stone for the secondary. I have a concept for both. Which would you choose?

[twozerofoxtrot]

Both are really strong choices. Similar in a lot of respects and likewise similar synergistically with Dark Melee. So a tough call, down to preference really.

 

For me, two things would swing to Stone:

1. The Immob on Mud Pots isn't strong, but it does prevent minions from running at the least, letting you focus down bosses and LTs without having to worry about them shooting off and getting lost. The double Auras on Ice are gonna cause runners, which sucks for Dark Consumption and Soul Drain.
2. Brimstone Armor's procs provide a little more Oomph to Dark, which to me feels like one of the softer-hitting Melee sets.

 

[Blackjoy]

Dark Melee is definitely weak in on the DPS side.  So much so, I the tried to buff it in a patch at some point.    The problem, as I see it, is that the developers lowered Dark's baseline DPS because it provides a greater amount of survivability/utility  as compared with other primaries.  I think Dark is also downgraded on account of Soul Drain.  At max boost and recharge, I think SD outperforms the Build-Up.  So to compensate Dark has a lower base damage.  The problem is that solo, you're not hitting the SD cap and you're severely underperforming on damage.  

 

IMO, Dark is better paired with a secondary that can boost its damage, like Fire or Shield.  I'm not familiar with Ice or Stone, but if one of them as a +dmg aura, I would go with that.

[Bellicose]

13 minutes ago, Blackjoy said:

IMO, Dark is better paired with a secondary that can boost its damage, like Fire or Shield.  I'm not familiar with Ice or Stone, but if one of them as a +dmg aura, I would go with that.

 

Of the two presented, I can speak to Ice paired with Dark. Mine was a Tank, not a Scrapper. It was very resilient, but the damage was low. I would concur with the above, that Dark/Shield is a strong and synergistic pairing.

[bigmarty]

Would it be better to try it as a stalker? I’ve just never been a fan of /shield.

[twozerofoxtrot]

51 minutes ago, bigmarty said:

Would it be better to try it as a stalker? I’ve just never been a fan of /shield.

 

There's nothing wrong with your choices in the OP. 

 

Don't be dissuaded by people who haven't played these armor sets on Scappers. Give Stone a try. Stick with it till at least 30 (or start there if that's your pref) and see how it performs damage-wise with everything toggled on.

 

Bring blue insps.

 

[Ashford]

Hard to say how it would do on a scrapper in the current balance, Dark is more of a Tanker pick but on a Scrapper? Maybe Dark/rad/soul and see if it outperforms the tanker variant. or just dark sheild

Edited May 16, 2023 by Ashford

[Nyghtmaire]

On 5/14/2023 at 7:29 PM, Blackjoy said:

At max boost and recharge, I think SD outperforms the Build-Up.  So to compensate Dark has a lower base damage.  The problem is that solo, you're not hitting the SD cap and you're severely underperforming on damage.  

I don’t quite understand this contention. It’s quite possible I’m missing something, but it looks like against even one target Soul Drain is still superior to Build Up.

 

* Soul Drain is a 30 second, 50% damage buff that can be made perma with a recharge-focus build. 2.508 arcanatime. Every additional mob increases the bonus by 10%.

 

* Build Up is a 10 second, 100% damage buff that cannot be made permanent under any circumstances, even with external buffs capping global recharge. 1.33 arcanatime. 

 

For the same 30 seconds Soul Drain is active, Build Up would be equivalent to 33% +damage. Both can slot the Gaussian proc. The gulf between the two widens the closer Soul Drain is to permanent. I suppose a relevant question is what opportunity cost there is from the longer Soul Drain cast time. But a higher recharge build to take advantage of Soul Drain also increases the likelihood of needing a filler attack (Siphon Life). Certainly attack chain-dependent. /stone would make a sweet pairing with the recharge bonus from Minerals (likewise /SR, /EA, /Elec, and /Rad).
 

Not arguing that Dark Melee’s attacks don’t lack a certain something. But Soul Drain is kinda baller in design. Again happy to learn if I’m missing something.

[DyingLegacy]

I have a dark/stone scrapper full t4 incarnate and slotted.  Really good.  The t9 with mud pots will immobilize bosses and keep them in place.  Recommend putting the critical strikes proc in shadow maul

[InvaderStych]

8 hours ago, Nyghtmaire said:

Certainly attack chain-dependent. /stone would make a sweet pairing with the recharge bonus from Minerals (likewise /SR, /EA, /Elec, and /Rad).

 

Dark/Stone is a solid combo. DC and SD trigger Brimstone on use (Brimstone doesn't take +dmg from buffs like SD/BU/etc though). That was one of my test toons when the /Stone revamp/port was in Beta.

 

Almost rolled one for Live, colored it green and called it The Dank Crystal, but I'm not a teenager anymore so I went another direction. 🤣

 

 

... of course that "other direction" ended up being a Stalker with an only slightly more thinly veiled Scotch whiskey based theme, so clearly I'm not that far removed from my inner teenager either. 🤣

Edited May 30, 2023 by InvaderStych

[Blackjoy]

9 hours ago, Nyghtmaire said:

* Soul Drain is a 30 second, 50% damage buff that can be made perma with a recharge-focus build. 2.508 arcanatime. Every additional mob increases the bonus by 10%.

 

* Build Up is a 10 second, 100% damage buff that cannot be made permanent under any circumstances, even with external buffs capping global recharge. 1.33 arcanatime. 

First off, looking at City of Data, Dark Melee doesn't look to have lower base damage than say Martial Arts or Ice Melee.  So my statement that DM is lower base damage isn't universally true.  

 

So why does DM seem to feel like  a weaker damage set? Probably two major reason :

 

1.  Shadow Maul, Touch of Fear, and Midnight Grasp are DoT.

 

2.  It may be due to the way SD works vs Build Up.  SD may look better on average, but this is a case where averages may be deceiving.   Build Up is giving you 100% damage boost....up front.  Front loaded damage is key.  This allows you to cycle a Primary's most damaging attacks immediately.   I can fire BU right before getting into a spawn, zero in on the boss or LT and take them out with one or two shots. 

 

Contrast that with SD, you have to get into the group, wait for the animation time to complete, then take an alpha from the boss and others, and then attack at like  a 60-70% boost if you're solo.   Also, if we're talking near Perma -SD, then BU is going to be ready every spawn.  You can get into a off cycle with SD where you're having to re-fire it and then stand their rooted in the middle of combat.  This makes DM feel slow on top of performing lower.

 

Anyone else do actual game numbers on DM, pre-Incarnates and Set bonuses?

 

[DyingLegacy]

The downside to soul drain is that it has a tohit check.  If it misses you’re just out of luck for 30 seconds or so