Code of Conduct Amendment: External Liability

[Tyrannical]

Hello all, not often I make a post these days, especially here.

Apologies in advance if this is a tired, contentious or otherwise provocative subject, but I feel as though it is prudent to address this issue in a more public platform moving forward. I am not going to divulge the information that has led me to make this post, nor do I intend this to be a statement in regards to any reports, ongoing or otherwise. I will state, however, that having been a confidant to many people in an ongoing incident that more needs to be done to protect this community moving forward.

The current iteration of the code of conduct, while clear and concise in most of its wording, is impeded by an oversight which has routinely been exploited. This exploit is in regards to what the Homecoming team consider actionable platforms in regards to incidents and reports, and the reach of jurisdiction in these regards.

At present, the Homecoming team are limited to policing only what are considered 'official' platforms, such as the Homecoming forum, the CoH: Homecoming Discord, and of course the game servers themselves. However, with todays focus on personal Discord groups and other such platforms, it is increasingly common for groups to detach themselves from these official channels and reduce their liability in regards to the code of conduct.

Now, personal chatrooms are not bad, but the way Homecoming approaches them is.

 

For example; if you are in a supergroup's personal Discord channel, and you are aware that somebody is perpetuating or advocating violations of the code of conduct, this is not actionable. And this make sense, because Homecoming are not and should not be able to dictate what people do in their own public servers, and it is up to the admins of those servers to enforce the rules themselves.

However, what if the admins themselves are the ones ignoring or violating the code of conduct?

This presents a new dilemma. The community are free to join this Discord, and subsequently may be involved in the code of conduct violations themselves, knowingly or not. Or worse, these people could be harassed, manipulated or otherwise put into an uncomfortable or compromising position, and the GMs can't intervene. Now, as mentioned before, Homecoming cannot police matters in these servers, even though they may be public knowledge or accessible via Homecoming's own channels. This is a problem, because we have a scenario where groups can remove themselves from Homecoming's jurisdiction, but are still able to promote themselves on their platforms.

So, in order to counter that, and address this situation, I propose a new amendment to Homecoming's policies and code of conduct;

 

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Any supergroup or social club that wishes to advertise or recruit on official Homecoming channels, such as the Homecoming forum, the CoH: Homecoming Discord, or any of the public channels within the game itself must uphold the Homecoming code of conduct internally.

This includes;

• Discord servers
• Web pages
• Social media platforms

This does NOT include;

• Direct messages on Discord or social media
• Emails or text messages
• Private correspondence of any kind

Administrators of these public channels are expected to inform their community of the Homecoming code of conduct clearly in their platform, and in the event of any violations are to caution them accordingly. Any code of conduct violations reported within groups listed in official channels may be investigated and actioned as though they are an extension of Homecoming's platform.
 

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So what does this hope to achieve? Well, for the most part it's there to protect the community from groups that may violate Homecoming's code of conduct and user policies outside of Homecoming's jurisdiction, but are still freely able to promote themselves on the official channels. This ensures that players that find groups via the official channels are still subject to the same protections those official channels provide, and in turn means that in order to promote these groups at all, they must uphold the code of conduct or risk being unable to promote at all, and may risk further action if there are consistent or large scale violations.

Now, I understand that this is likely going to cause a lot of push against Homecoming being able to dictate what social groups do in their own channels, so I'll reiterate; this does not mean GMs are going to be able to control your personal channels. This just means that if you promote on the official platforms, you accept that your group is subject to the code of conduct laid out by Homecoming, and any violations can be actioned by the HC team if evidence of such is present and reported. The most the HC team could really do is action any violations on their side of things with warnings or suspensions for individuals within HC the platforms, not the group as a whole (unless its that bad).

So with all this in mind, I took some time to consider a few questions people might have about this change, and did my best to provide answers;
 

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How will this change in policy benefit me as a player?

If you join a supergroup or social club through any of the official platforms (HC Discord, forum or game client), you are not protected by the code of conduct. With this change, any such group that advertises through these official platforms will have to uphold the code of conduct, and reports can be made to the HC team regarding harassment, content violations or other misconduct.

 

Will this change in policy affect how I run my supergroup or social club?
Unlikely. All players are expected to abide by the code of conduct, this merely ensures it remains as such. Unless a group is actively going out of its way to try and violate the code of conduct, then nothing will change. The most that could happen is somebody gets suspended, and if that somebody is an administrator, it could open the group as a whole to investigation.

What if I don't advertise my group on any official platforms?

If your group doesn't advertise on official HC platforms, then there is no grounds for the HC team to get involved. People are still expected to follow the code of conduct, but if they aren't appearing in official channels, the HC team are unlikely to hold any jurisdiction. It's an unfortunate but necessary parameter of this change to ensure HC can only action public groups active in official platforms.

Does this mean that if I use in-game channels to advertise, I have to link the code of conduct?
Not necessarily. As you're advertising in game, that means you are already using one of HC's official platforms and as are your target audience, which means everyone already accepted the user agreement when logging in. However, if you advertise a link to a Discord channel or other platform outside of HC's own, it must still be provided and enforced.

What if somebody's Discord handle is different to the one they use on the forums or in-game?
Thankfully, your discord username (seen as "Username#XXXX") remains the same regardless of what handle you change it to. If you join the CoH: Homecoming Discord, people are able to see this username, and it will be the same in any other group you join. That means if a report is made against somebody going by a different alias in another server, if they are present in Homecoming's own discord, the username will be identical for both.

What if I want to action something on a web page or social media?
The same logic applies, though it is a little trickier. Most web services will require an email address to use, just like Homecoming does. If you mean to report somebody on those platforms, the HC team may be able to see from their email address that it's the same person registered on Homecoming services. However, its likely not going to be easy to verify, unfortunately.

Will this change in policy be retroactive?
Assuming this policy change is even implemented, it is a decision that the HC team will have to make. I expect there are several pros and cons that the HC team will have to consider before making a final decision, and a lot of potentially unforeseen consequences of going either way. It is my hope that it is made retroactive, but I'd understand if a decision was made for it not to be.

Can't people just fabricate this kind of stuff?
They can. This is another reason why this should only be enforced on groups operating publicly in HC's official platforms An open-invitation on HCs doorstep means a member of the HC team, if available, might be able to verify the information first hand. However, if that isn't a possibility, they might contact the administrator to see if they will provide logs. Naturally, an administrator could just say no, and that would be the end of it, but I would hope that most would be willing to cooperate with the HC team to protect members of their shared community.

What if I'm reporting a group or an administrator?

That's where it gets complicated. I feel in most situations if an administrator or their group doesn't want somebody around, they would simply remove them from their platform, but that isn't always the case. If the group or its acting administrator are reported for code of conduct violations, then again, there would have to be a first hand investigation. However, any supporting evidence from other members could help corroborate the case if necessary.

 

What if I joined a group through a third party?

If you joined a group through a third party, such as a curated supergroup index, or a Discord server with a recruitment channel, it may be that this group is already promoting itself in one of the official Homecoming channels already, and are therefore still liable for upholding the code of conduct. In the event a group is not on any official channels, it would likely be exempt from the same oversight of those that are.

Do you really expect the HC team to police all the other channels out there?
Not at all, no. What people do in private spaces is up to them, and if something said or done isn't related to Homecoming itself, it shouldn't be up to the Homecoming team to police them. This is strictly about public groups engaging on official HC platforms.

 

Does this mean the Homecoming team have administrative control over my platform?

Absolutely not, Homecoming cannot dictate how you curate your platform. In most cases there wont even need to be any direct interaction from the HC team, if there is it would likely be to ask for logs or suggest changes, which an administrator can ultimately decline if they so choose.

 

Does this mean all content on my platform will be looked into for violations?

I shouldn't think so. GMs are not likely to be actively monitoring any other platforms for violations, and while some parts of the code of conduct, specifically the content guidelines, have been scrutinised for their ambiguity, I believe this change will focus on the more severe policy violations.

 

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For now, that's all I can think of. I'm sure in the comments people may have their own arguments for an against a change like this, pointing out flaws or improvements, things I didn't consider or considered a bit too much, and no doubt the current proposal for this amendment may change in response to feedback both positive and negative.

And again, I reiterate, this isn't a statement on any reports that have been or are being made for whatever reasons, this is an insight into the process behind them, and how to best improve and adapt it for today's modern methods of communication. 

If you've gotten this far, then I thank you for your time reading this, and hope for your support. 😊

 

 

Edited June 2 by Tyrannical

[Ruin Mage]

The City of Roleplay (Discord) Admin Team fully supports this suggestion and hopes that the HC team will consider implementing it.

Edited June 1 by Shadeknight

[Crystal Dragon]

As part of the administrator team of City of Roleplay on discord, I do believe that this is something of a matter that should be given serious consideration by the staff of HC to amend to the current CoC to protect users against organized harassment and abuse through outside platforms. There's been at least several cases to my knowledge in my time playing here that this has caused issues for fellow players, and I do feel that this amendment may help lock down this problematic behavior with careful consideration. I support this.

[Veracor]

As a raid leader of the Everlasting TFs community I fully support this suggestion to amend the Code of Conduct, and I think the other raid leaders would agree as well.  During my four years of leading content I have witnessed organized harassment, rule-breaking, and even scamming from Discords that advertised themselves on Homecoming.  Instead of being confined to only what happens in in-game channels, giving the GMs the option to pursue external evidence of misconduct in public servers, and to verify them for consideration, would bring a much-needed outreach on the processing of Harassment and Code of Conduct reports.

 

Many game developers already do this (regardless if they have a stated policy or not), and it isn't uncommon for their support teams to take action on game accounts verified to be linked to rulebreaking in private Discords and forums.  For most it's just another tool to stop RMT, but it can also put an end to a lot of organized harassment and brigading.

[Bionic_Flea]

I have no idea what may have happened to create this concern.  But as expressed I disagree. 

 

While I loathe any hate group's ideas, let's say the KKK, they are free to make a COH Discord and be as racist, homophobic, antisemitic, and vile as they want on their server.  But as soon as they log into the HC game server they are bound by the Code of Conduct and any such hate speech and actions  are prohibited.  What they say on their Discord is not actionable by HC GMs nor should it be.  However, if they are concocting some weird plan to bring their hate to the game servers I think the GMs should at least be informed so that they can be prepared to act if and when they cross a line in the game.

 

If the rule breaking occurs on HC but was discussed on a private Discord, I see no reason why the GMs could not use private Discord screenshots to support their disciplinary actions.  Again, this assumes that there was an actual violation in the game.

 

I also think it is unfair to ask the GMs to take on policing additional areas. 

Edited June 1 by Bionic_Flea

[Tyrannical]

3 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I have no idea what may have happened to create this concern.  But as expressed I disagree. 

 

While I loathe any hate group's ideas, let's say the KKK, they are free to make a COH Discord and be as racist, homophobic, and vile as they want on their server.  But as soon as they log into the HC game server they are bound by the Code of Conduct and any such.  What they say on their Discord is not actionable by HC GMs nor should it be.  However, if they are concocting some weird plan to bring their hate to the game servers I think the GMs should at least be informed so that they can be prepared to act if and when they cross a line in the game.

 

If the rule breaking occurs on HC but was discussed on a private Discord, I see no reason why the GMs could not use private Discord screenshots to support their disciplinary actions.  Again, this assumes that there was an actual violation in the game.

 

I also think it is unfair to ask the GMs to take on policing additional areas.

Hello Flea, happy for your input.

While I do agree with you that it would be ideal if the Homecoming team were able to action in-game incidents based on recorded evidence in third party platforms, it is unfortunately not part of their current policy to do so.

I also agree that this kind of jurisdiction should not extend to people's private discords or other personal spaces regarding incidents that are unrelated to the game itself, as it should not be up to Homecoming to police these matters.

What I do want to promote here is that any incidents of HC related conduct violations, specifically regarding public groups on official channels (eg. those that advertise on the HC discord, forum or game client), should be actionable as though they are an extension of the official channel itself.

I hope that this helps clarify things! 🙂
 

Edited June 2 by Tyrannical

[ArchVileTerror]

I may have misread your proposal, but if I've got it right, then I immediately see a big issue:  If the GMs do not have administrative control over the external non-Homecoming communication media, they do not have the means to verify the identities of the people using those media, and harassers could simply masquerade as the people they want targeted by the GMs.

[TheZag]

Im sure the intentions are noble and those in support are as well but this would represent a huge overreach on homecoming's part.  No one is required to join a 3rd party discord or other platform to play on homecoming and no one is required to remain on one to play here either.  If someone is getting harrassed or otherwise witnesses what would constitute a violation if it were ingame,  they are free to leave that platform.  They should get a screenshot or chat log and it should be allowed in support of a claim if the activity migrates over to homecoming but out of game chat on an out of homecoming platform shouldnt be required to follow homecoming's code of conduct.

 

All that said,  i think an opt in program could be a solution.  Something along the lines of 'if a non homecoming platform chooses to enforce the homecoming CoC on their platform then screenshots and chat logs from those platforms are valid for enforcement of offenses.  It must be clearly visible upon entering the platform that the homecoming CoC is in effect.'

 

Even that may be excessive though.  Ive never heard of a game that requires players to follow their rules while not on their servers.  Maybe some exist but ive never played them. 

 

[PeregrineFalcon]

Absolutely not!

 

Look, I don't post much on the Homecoming forums anymore simply because everything that I say pisses someone off. I was tired of getting suspended from the forums and concerned that eventually they might even decide to suspend my game account.

 

Now you're here advocating a policy change that will allow some rando to photoshop up a pic of me saying something on some fake discord server and submit it to the GMs, and then I'll get perma-banned from the forums and/or game because of something that I never even did. And don't bother telling me that's not what you're advocating for because if what you want does get implemented that is what will happen. To someone, if not necessarily me.

 

On top of that, who went and made you or the mods here the moral arbiters of what's ok to say and/or do on the internet? You all are operating an illegal server based on code that was stolen from its lawful owner. So don't try to sit here and act like you all are wearing white wings and halos. Dress it up however you want, but don't act like "we're just trying to do the right thing", you all are pirates.

[Enchantment]

Hello, I am Aquarica, one of the two Co-Leaders of Prevail, a SG on Everlasting.

 

My reaction to this is mostly positive. We had advertised prior on the HC Discord, and while we have since gone private/invite-only, I would definitely entertain following suit with other HC player organizations in posting and implementing the Code of Conduct on Prevail's Discord. That said, I see two major points to bring up, and one minor:

1) The first is regarding this section of the Code of Conduct:
 

Quote

There are three overarching ground rules that must be followed at all times: 1) Anything an Administrator or Game Master says overrides anything else in this document - if they give you an instruction, please follow it.

While I believe this is appropriate for the trio of Homecoming community offerings, I believe implemented upon the various supporting Discords this would be an overstep and unwarranted. It simply gives them too much power, in sub-societies that they do not understand as well as HC itself. What I would suggest is when implementing this concept, thought be given to either removing this overarching ground rule from EXTERNAL enforcement, or establishing a much tighter Code of Conduct document for implementation in SGs and other HC-centric organizations.

2) Upon reexamination of the Code of Conduct for how it would specifically apply to Prevail and other organizations like ours, I specifically noted this section:
 

Quote

Conduct Guidelines

1. Do not abuse or harass others
   1. This includes players, Homecoming staff, and players or staff from other communities

Nowhere in the context of that guideline is there an actual stipulation that the abuse and harassment needs to have occurred on a HC property, unlike in the Content Guidelines. The closest is within the opening statement where they state they aim to maintain a clean, welcoming, and fun environment. I believe this already gives them the ability to act outside of Homecoming's properties. Because there is no limiting jurisdiction stated, this Conduct Guideline could be interpreted to allow all platforms to be actionable by HC's staff. - in other words: with the correct interpretation, an External Liability Amendment may be unnecessary.

Finally, the minor point I wanted to make: when designing the verbiage for the External Liability Amendment, I would ask that all forms of interaction in which an organization is represented within HC be included, not just recruitment. This should also extend to those advertising social events such as costume contests, dance clubs, RWZ raids, etc. Close that loophole before it gets started.

Overall, I believe you are working towards the right direction, and have an excellent proposal.

[luficia]

21 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Absolutely not!

 

Look, I don't post much on the Homecoming forums anymore simply because everything that I say pisses someone off. I was tired of getting suspended from the forums and concerned that eventually they might even decide to suspend my game account.

 

Now you're here advocating a policy change that will allow some rando to photoshop up a pic of me saying something on some fake discord server and submit it to the GMs, and then I'll get perma-banned from the forums and/or game because of something that I never even did. And don't bother telling me that's not what you're advocating for because if what you want does get implemented that is what will happen. To someone, if not necessarily me.

 

On top of that, who went and made you or the mods here the moral arbiters of what's ok to say and/or do on the internet? You all are operating an illegal server based on code that was stolen from its lawful owner. So don't try to sit here and act like you all are wearing white wings and halos. Dress it up however you want, but don't act like "we're just trying to do the right thing", you all are pirates.

 

Hi, I can tell you as a former admin in another space, anyone with a brain can easily verify a fake discord log to a real one. Simply ask both parties to submit the same log. You can also look at the photo's data and see the photoshop. 

 

But I am 100% in support of this. This abuse has gone on long enough and amendments need to be made. I'd even wager a suggestion that leader of SGs personally leading any harassment in personal DMs in discord and using it to bypass punishment should absolutely be punished as if breaking the TOS in game. 

 

They represent their groups and just because its in a discord shouldn't mean they should hide behind a third party to get away with harassment. 

 

Changes need to be made. 

 

I support this. End the harassment loop hole. 

[Tyrannical]

I feel I need to reiterate to avoid any further confusion.

 

This does not mean that GMs will have any administrative control over your private platforms.

 

This merely allows GMs to use information from public groups that are advertised on their official platforms when investigating reports.

 

A GM can not force you to provide logs or access to locked channels if you decline.

 

It is unlikely that a GM will even interact with the platform itself, and would probably contact its moderators directly if needs be.

 

 

Edited June 2 by Tyrannical

[Xanatos]

I don't think the CoC needs changing for everyone just because two Everlasting RP supergroups and one Everlasting RP discord can't all play nice together.
 

I get that you all can't see the forrest for the trees right now, because you're all in the middle of a big bloody feud, but none of these concerns have any ingame impact. In six months time you're all still going to be playing the game with your friends and you're all going to be fine.
 

Block/ignore and move on with your life.

 

I've been with CoH since 2001, used to run a 36,000-strong community website called CoHGuru.con, and was heavily active/present in the live RP Community on Virtue. I ran RP events, RPVP events, Hami Raids, the lot. I was also the victim of A LOT of harassment campaigns. 4chan even once came after me!
 

I learned pretty early on that policing people outside of the game was pointless. For every novella-length report I sent in, my Sworn Enemies would send in one too. The GMs undoubtedly looked at these two sets of reports,  saw two teams of raging lunatics sharing their "irrefutable proof" that the opposing team was Literally Satan, and decided both sides were as bad as each other.

 

This made me realize that the best thing I could do, as a community leader, was to focus my energies on ensuring the place I could police was rad as hell, and to completely shut my eyes to what went on outside it.

 

I suggest the people running community discords on Everlasting do the same. Focus your energies on making your discords great. Forget what others are doing on theirs.

[GM Crumpet]

Locking this thread as it serves no purpose. The CoC is clear enough and anything not specifically mentioned is covered by the "comply with a GM's instructions" clause. What happens on private discord servers stays on private discord servers, unless it impacts on players in the game, our forum or our discord that we run and moderate. We have no intention or desire to police or otherwise interfere with any outside discussion channels, we are only interested in what players say or do within the confines of our sphere of influence. Want to chat about how bad I am as a GM? Feel free. If it's on our discord or our forum I have a right of reply and even then will recuse myself from any actions taken as I'm involved. Want to chat about how bad a GM I am on your own private channels? Go ahead, it doesn't bother me. It won't affect how I treat you or the aid I give if you need it.

 

There will always be drama and clashes on private discussion channels. It's up to the individual if they wish to continue interacting with them. My only concern or interest is the official channels and game stay as drama free as possible.