Help with SR/Savage end drain.

[Agonisis]

Hello all. Working on my 16th tank, currently at level 30 and am having an issue I haven't really had to deal with. And that's end drain to complete toggle shut off. I have gone through my build and cant come up with anything that doesn't completely destroy it. Any advice would be great. Here is the build:

View This Build In MRB

Tanker_Super_Reflexes_-_Savage melee.mbd

Edited June 29, 2023 by Agonisis

[Thrax]

You mean end drain attacks detoggle you?  Or you’re running out of end while doing stuff?

[Agonisis]

2 hours ago, Thrax said:

You mean end drain attacks detoggle you?  Or you’re running out of end while doing stuff?

running out while doing stuff

 

[Major_Decoy]

Honestly, I'd say part of your problem is Hasten. You don't particularly need it. I mean it cuts about two seconds off of Savage Leap and .6 seconds off of Vicious Slash but none of your survival powers are time reliant. I know that 15 endurance every two minutes doesn't seem like a lot, but it was noticeable on my Time Defender.

[Thrax]

Turning off superspeed helps too.  I have no idea how you're running out of end though.  There has to be something else going on.  My main is savage/inv and he has absolutely no end issues.  I have many SR toons and they are all super easy on end.  You have two performance shifters and the panacea proc.  Should be able to run non-stop forever.  Do you play with superspeed and sprint both on all the time maybe?  Dropping hasten will help too but should still be fine with it.  There has to be something else going on, it isn't the build.  

[Major_Decoy]

7 minutes ago, Thrax said:

I have many SR toons and they are all super easy on end.  You have two performance shifters and the panacea proc.  Should be able to run non-stop forever.  Do you play with superspeed and sprint both on all the time maybe?  Dropping hasten will help too but should still be fine with it.  There has to be something else going on, it isn't the build.  

 

Level could be part of it. Willpower is notorious as a "more endurance than you know what to do with" build, but I recall my Willpower/Super Strength tank having endurance issues from mid 20's to early 30's, only stopping when I sat down to do a proper build of it. I kind of had a similar issue with my Super Reflexes/Claws and I actually still can't run maneuvers all the time yet. I don't recall having that problem with my Super Reflexes/Staff tank, but that could be because of the endurance reduction mastery mode.

 

And those are characters that I use /bind r for the travel powers so I can turn them off during combat. (which is also something I do for the time defender, even with a Panacea, Power Shifter, and a Miracle slotted)

[Sanguinesun]

16 hours ago, Agonisis said:

Hello all. Working on my 16th tank, currently at level 30 and am having an issue I haven't really had to deal with. And that's end drain to complete toggle shut off. I have gone through my build and cant come up with anything that doesn't completely destroy it. Any advice would be great. Here is the build:

View This Build In MRB

Tanker_Super_Reflexes_-_Savage melee.mbd 52.77 kB · 8 downloads

 

Your issue is primarily your level.   Most characters leveling up suffer end issues.  Your build is your post 50 build which is not congruent to your current state at level 30. 

 

If you want to have better end while you level:

 

1. Make sure you have end redux standard IO's in your toggles.

2. Make sure you have 2-3 slots of End Modification in your stamina.

3. Dont run your travel toggles all the time.  If you're in a mission, you're typically not needing to run super speed, sprint and the p2w run at the same time.  Just run sprint or the pw2 run as you need or not at all.

4. If you're being the tank on a team, you do not need to constantly be using each and every single attack power that you have while its up.  Pace and manage your attacks so that you are pacing and managing your end better. This is the number 1 way your end drops.

5. Be mindful of what you're fighting. Some mobs drain end too.

6. If you are still sucking end, see point 4 and reduce what you're doing even more. 

7. Blue skittles are your friend.  Even consider making a macro to convert other ones to blues if you think it'll help.

 

etc etc etc

 

 

[biostem]

16 hours ago, Agonisis said:

Hello all. Working on my 16th tank, currently at level 30 and am having an issue I haven't really had to deal with. And that's end drain to complete toggle shut off. I have gone through my build and cant come up with anything that doesn't completely destroy it. Any advice would be great. Here is the build:

Without knowing more about your actual play style, it's hard to pin down how best to help you, besides what others have already suggested.  I have a 50 SR/DM tanker, and can tell you that smart management of toggles and having some end redux in powers, (both attacks and toggles), and without the Cardiac Incarnate, it absolutely isn't a problem.  My educated guess on the matter, though, is even with the built-in end redux from savage melee, if your build does include hasten, and you are attacking as fast as possible without care for excess/overflow damage, you will bottom-out rather quickly.  Efficient use of your powers, as well as knowing when *not* to exhaust yourself by consuming the 5 stacks of blood frenzy, is key...

[Wimbochismo]

To add to all of this.

 

I've been giving any new character I make about 5 million to to buy odds and ends p2w stuff. The recovery/defense etc temporaries are cheap at level 1 and have lasted some of my guys until the 30's.

 

You can slot miracle, panacea, perf shift pretty early in levels. Buy em and slot em asap.

 

SR runs several toggles. On my SR Sent in the early levels, I only ran with the ranged def toggle and acted like a ranged Blaster. Here you could only run the melee def toggle and that should be all you need.

[biostem]

8 minutes ago, Wimbochismo said:

SR runs several toggles.

I find that the 3 toggles SR has aren't generally the issue - it's also trying to run tough, weave, maybe some leadership toggles, and practiced brawler firing off, (if you have it on autofire), that lead to unexpected "oh sh!t" moments.  SR also not having any end drain protection, (besides not getting hit), means any sort of autohit power is going to ruin your day...

Edited June 30, 2023 by biostem

[Doomguide2005]

On 6/30/2023 at 11:42 AM, biostem said:

I find that the 3 toggles SR has aren't generally the issue - it's also trying to run tough, weave, maybe some leadership toggles, and practiced brawler firing off, (if you have it on autofire), that lead to unexpected "oh sh!t" moments.  SR also not having any end drain protection, (besides not getting hit), means any sort of autohit power is going to ruin your day...

This.

The basic positional toggles are almost certainly not the issue.

Using a single attack once will cost you more endurance than running all 3 toggles over the same period ... with endurance enough to run another toggle in all likelihood.

 

For example, Rending Fury - a single attack every 14 secs will burn 13.52 end.  Over the same period the 3 toggles are (3× 0.260 × 14 = 10.92 end).  Hasten plus recharge enhancement to Rending Fury (global or the power itself) will only make this disparity greater if used as soon as cooldown is up.  At 100% recharge (Hasten plus a single recharge SO and you're over 100%) you've effectively doubled that cost from 13.52 end to 27.04 end in 14 seconds.  The toggles meanwhile are the same cost regardless of recharge.

 

Does this mean no endred is necessary in toggles, of course not.  But it does mean ensure you've got solid endred in the attacks and elsewhere first.

 

• Grab +end accolades asap.
• Various temp buffs from base empowerment, day job, p2w etc. are available.  
• Be wary of how much endred any sets you are using provide.  Obliteration is sweet set.  It's endred value sucks.
• Pace yourself, nothing wrong with using Rest.
• Make sure you've got enough accuracy to land those attacks ... whiffing with Rending Fury is expensive right.  Dropping a Kismet somewhere in the build maybe very helpful if you observe to hit rolls of 90+ missing rather than 95+  No access to opening Mids to check the build so maybe you already have one or enough accuracy and to hit to reach 95+

Hope this helps.

 

PS:  Hasten also has a crash.  No cost up front when clicked it the proceeds to help burn through your endurance via faster attacking then as you've burned that candle hard for 120 seconds it crashes dropping your end 15 further points ... 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Doomguide2005

[Outrider_01]

Your level 30, slot some endreduc and call it a day. My Dark/Savage Tank with 90% resit all but energy and toxic runs all dark toggles but the fear/stun (useless most of the time), tough, weave, and Acrobatics with CJ has no problem after slotting.  Super jump can be maintained without being in combat.

Build allows me to run at 30 with 45% s/ls software cap and max resists and at 25 with max resist and 35% defense.