Normalize Sentinels' epic pool powers

[Silverado]

There are a few patterns we can see when looking at the epic pools available to sentinels. Namely the elemental-themed ones, Ice, Fire, and Electricity, share some similarities in terms of function, but their AoE immobilizes are not aligned with the original versions of those powers. 

 

Frostbite from Ice Mastery, and Fire Cages from Fire Mastery, have a property that says "100.00 knock protection for 10.00s on target" which prevents targets affected by the immobilize to be knocked down. The original versions of these powers from Ice and Fire Control don't have those properties (anymore), but the Sentinels' versions do. This proves problematic for a whole bunch of reasons, which means Sentinels are potentially sabotaging their team by using these powers. 

 

They should all be standardized, so that they behave similarly to the powers they were based on.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Silverado

[Chance Jackson]

Usually KB protection on immobs just prevents KB still allowing targets to be KD

 

 

Edit: It appears I confused Protection for Resistance

Edited July 12, 2023 by Chance Jackson

[Greycat]

Ice's AOE immob doesn't have that currently because it actively negated another primary power in the set, Ice Slick. (It does allow KD.) Fire has the same thing with Bonfire, though that at least still did damage if nothing was getting knocked down.

 

I don't see an issue with sentinels versions - they're getting them late, for one, and for another, I'd wager they help more than harm by being able to immob stuff while still in a group - it's less a power issue than a player-paying-attention issue.  They don't have the same issue the control versions do - if the Sentinel fire mastery had bonfire, for instance, there'd be more of an argument for changing it, as we'd be back to "actively sabotaging itself."

 

I'm not necessarily *against* this, but it isn't in the same place as the control versions were - and is kind of hard to sell the "sabotaging the team" when high level teams of most sizes just plow through most content these days.

[Burk]

8 hours ago, Chance Jackson said:

Usually KB protection on immobs just prevents KB still allowing targets to be KD

 

You are confusing KB protection with KB resistance. Fire Cages for Sentinels does 10000% KB resistance and mag -100 KB protection while for Controllers it just does the 10000% KB resistance. What resistance does is a multiplier on any incoming knockback, and for that large of resistance it will reduce it to the cap of 1% distance. However the protection straight up subtracts from the knockback and if that difference hits zero or less it outright negates the knockback.

 

Hence for a controller, a fire caged enemy that is hit by a 50 mag knockback will have that reduced to 0.5 mag which is a postive number less than 1 and thus results in a knockdown. For a sentinel that same 50 mag knockback will be reduced to 0.5 mag by the resistance and then have 100 subtracted from it, resulting in a very negative -99.5 magnitude and no knockback/down at all.

[Rudra]

52 minutes ago, Burk said:

 

You are confusing KB protection with KB resistance. Fire Cages for Sentinels does 10000% KB resistance and mag -100 KB protection while for Controllers it just does the 10000% KB resistance. What resistance does is a multiplier on any incoming knockback, and for that large of resistance it will reduce it to the cap of 1% distance. However the protection straight up subtracts from the knockback and if that difference hits zero or less it outright negates the knockback.

 

Hence for a controller, a fire caged enemy that is hit by a 50 mag knockback will have that reduced to 0.5 mag which is a postive number less than 1 and thus results in a knockdown. For a sentinel that same 50 mag knockback will be reduced to 0.5 mag by the resistance and then have 100 subtracted from it, resulting in a very negative -99.5 magnitude and no knockback/down at all.

To the best of my knowledge, they don't stack like that. Resistance and Protection I believe get checked separately, one to see if it happens at all (protection) and the other to see how much (resistance.)

 

Edit: So to use your example, the fire caged enemy is hit with a Mag 50 KB but has 100 KB protection and 10,000% KB resist. The Mag 50 KB is less than the 100 KB protection, so no KB occurs at all. The target stays put. Resistance doesn't even get applied (for all intents and purposes). Now if the KB had been Mag 101, it would have exceeded the KB protection, and the full Mag 101 KB would then be subjected to the 10,000% KB resistance. With the Controller however, with no KB protection, the full Mag 50 KB is reduced by the 10,000% KB resistance, resulting in a KD.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to change "technically" to "for all intents and purposes" since the resistance would still be calculated.

[Burk]

Hmm, seems kind of weird for it to not stack like that, but it would explain a couple of things.

 

Main thing was that the AoE immobs should not have the protection, just the resistance so that Knockdown isn't completely removed.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Burk