Add a Bit of Wiggle Room to 'On the Ground' Powers

[TheZag]

There are a bunch of powers out there that require either the player or the target to be on the ground.  There are also a bunch of times when enemies are on a slope or their hitbox is otherwise a few pixels off the ground and players are prevented from using 'target must be on the ground' abilities,  even when the enemy is standing on the ground.  To further complicate matters,  some powers that require ground such as foot stomp will work if you are flying near the ground but others wont work,  making players whose movement power choice is fly or mystic flight problematic with their powerset.

 

The game seems to be able to tell if you are on the ground or near the ground since some powers work while flying near the ground.  I suggest to make all powers that require the player to be on the ground to work while flying near the ground and powers that require the enemy to be on the ground to work if they are slightly (or maybe even several feet) above the ground.

 

This should help prevent targeting issues when an enemy is quite clearly standing on the ground and continue with the thematic purpose of 'this ground based powerset requires you to be on the ground'.  There are also a few times when powers like group fly are used that suddenly prevents several of your powers from working or an enemy jumps right when you tried to cast your power that required them to be on the ground.  'I know you are super but let me foil your powers with my super secret ability to lift my feet off the ground for short periods of time.'

 

[biostem]

Unless powers that require the enemy or player be "on the ground" have a significant bonus to compensate for that requirement, I say get rid of the restriction altogether...

[Rudra]

I'm more in favor of @TheZag's OP. Some attacks just make sense for the character or target to be on the ground to use. There should be some leeway for it though, like with Foot Stomp. As long as you are hovering at the ground, you can use it. Works for me. I love that change. Taking away that restriction though? Could mean my foot stomping brute can hover 100 feet above the ground and still stomp it to cause a harmful tremor.*

 

The addition of "wiggle room" to abilities that require the user or the target to be on the ground would fix the problem @TheZag described, where you go to use such a power because you obviously can, but the game tells you that you can't because reasons. The target somehow isn't actually on the ground despite him/her standing on a slope. You're somehow not on the ground because you are standing on a slope. Other silly glitches. (Targets jumping and evading the ground-based attack though? I'm fine with them doing that. Just means my timing sucked at the time.)

 

I'm all for the OP. Not so much about just taking the requirement away though.

 

Edit:

* - If my character is surrounded by flying foes 100 feet in the air, I shouldn't be able to blast them with an earth tremor attack like Foot Stomp since there is no ground anywhere near us for it to work on. If I'm fighting in the water and do that? Then I'm standing on a sand bar, a shallow reef, or similar.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Rudra

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

If my character is surrounded by flying foes 100 feet in the air, I shouldn't be able to blast them with an earth tremor attack like Foot Stomp since there is no ground anywhere near us for it to work on. If I'm fighting in the water and do that? Then I'm standing on a sand bar, a shallow reef, or similar.

Here's the problem with that logic - you never have to reload your firearms, replenish your arrows, can use fire attacks while in the water, and so on.  If we're going for realism, then do so across the board and more consistently,  If not, then let players use their powers freely...

[honoroit]

an extra toggle to let you hover, but sink to the ground as if anti flown, would be nice. geavity toggle, basically.  you could still hop about but if you stop pressing space bar... down you go.  its help with trying to use earth powers as a flying type.

[Rudra]

46 minutes ago, biostem said:

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

If my character is surrounded by flying foes 100 feet in the air, I shouldn't be able to blast them with an earth tremor attack like Foot Stomp since there is no ground anywhere near us for it to work on. If I'm fighting in the water and do that? Then I'm standing on a sand bar, a shallow reef, or similar.

Here's the problem with that logic - you never have to reload your firearms, replenish your arrows, can use fire attacks while in the water, and so on.  If we're going for realism, then do so across the board and more consistently,  If not, then let players use their powers freely...

I subscribe to the Hollywood/Anime school of video game logic. For simplicity, firearms have infinite ammo. Thermal weapons and fire attacks aren't hindered by the presence of water. Electrical attacks/lightning still shoots straight instead of dispersing in water. Causing the ground to shake to harm my foes requires them to at least be near the ground. There is only so much I can suspend disbelief for before I just throw my hands up and say 'this is pure nonsense'.

 

(Edit: Note that being able to hover off the ground and use things like Foot Stomp is fine with me. You are still near the ground and the upheaval could theoretically affect foes also hovering near the ground. Like I said though, making the ground shake and rumble to hurt my foes fighting me 100 feet in the air goes well beyond suspension of disbelief.)

 

(Edit again: Also, please note the differences in what I posted. Firearms having infinite ammo for instance. They have the ammo they need to function, they just don't run out. Thermal weapons and fire attacks working normally underwater. The attack source is still capable of generating the thermal/fire attack, it has the ability to function. It however, disregards being underwater as completely shutting down the ability. The electrical/lightning attack not being dispersed underwater. The source is still functional, it is capable of producing the attack on its own, but the added hindrance of being underwater is ignored. Using an earth tremor attack to affect something not even near the earth however, is lacking its attack source: the ground. It isn't that the attack is an earth-based attack being done in mid-air. Earth blast attacks are fine because the character is the source of the power. It is that is a ground-based attack, and being mid-air takes away its primary source: the ground.)

Edited August 1, 2023 by Rudra

[TheZag]

If it didnt already exist,  i doubt ground based powers would ever have been added.  But we have it and a complete removal also isnt likely.  Generally its the thematic reasons that are stated for ground based powers functionality and that doesnt make it incorrect. 

 

My electric armor brute can radiate electricity several feet from his body but loses his protections from Grounded the moment he leaves the ground - he has been knocked over because moving quickly over uneven ground will constantly leave you 'airborne' for fractions of a second.  To me,  its thematic for powers like that to work while several feet off the ground just based on the range of the electric aura and a general quality of life improvement for all ground powers to work while flying near ('touching') the ground.

  

[biostem]

Dumb question, but how does the game track "on the ground", and is it capable of, say, calculating "10' from the ground" instead?

[Rudra]

6 minutes ago, biostem said:

how does the game track "on the ground"

No clue. Good question.

 

6 minutes ago, biostem said:

is it capable of, say, calculating "10' from the ground" instead?

Foot Stomp says yes, it can. (Edit: So does Lightning Rod, which used to require you to be on the ground, but now just requires you to be near it.)

Edited August 1, 2023 by Rudra

[Akisan]

6 hours ago, Rudra said:

Edit:

* - If my character is surrounded by flying foes 100 feet in the air, I shouldn't be able to blast them with an earth tremor attack like Foot Stomp since there is no ground anywhere near us for it to work on. If I'm fighting in the water and do that? Then I'm standing on a sand bar, a shallow reef, or similar.

Edited 3 hours ago by Rudra

 

I would pay money to see a superhero attempt to Foot Stomp a sandbar without a) flying/hovering or b) sinking up to their knee in sand. Oh, and, c) obliterating the sandbar doesn't count either. (nice try, you Rules Lawyers out there)

 

As for the OP, I'd be ok with a lot of those restrictions being lifted.  Many of the other, strangly restrictive stuff's been tweaked (like being rooted by Unyielding).  As  @Rudra mentioned though, some have very strong thematic reasons to be grounded, but not all.  (Some could simply get alternate, mid-air animations though!)

[Troo]

@biostem@TheZag I thought there was some wiggle room. I know improvements have been made to a number of ground powers over time.

 

Example:

"Powers that could only affect players on the ground will now affect all players above them as well as standing on them. This is to fix a PVP exploit making ground based powers ineffective. Powers fixed: Tar Patch, Bonfire, Ice Patch, Ice slick, Quicksand, Caltrops, and Volcanic Gasses." -Patch Notes/2008-05-20

 

Grounded may be an exception as grounding requires touch. Though the description says 'near'

 

Grounded

You are Grounded and naturally very resistant to Energy and Negative Energy damage. You also have added resistance to Endurance Drain effects. Additionally, Grounded provides Immobilize and Knockback protection, but only applies when you are near the ground. This power is always on and costs no Endurance.

 

[Herotu]

11 hours ago, biostem said:

Here's the problem with that logic - you never have to reload your firearms, replenish your arrows, can use fire attacks while in the water, and so on.  If we're going for realism, then do so across the board and more consistently,  If not, then let players use their powers freely...

I like the idea of freely, but I prefer the idea of circumstantial restrictions and use of environment.

 

Variety makes thing interesting. If it's always the same, there are no stories to tell.

 

I feel like the players' desire for "freedom" really homogenises a lot of this game. Maybe that's what they wanted. I am not so sure.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Herotu

[Herotu]

8 hours ago, biostem said:

Dumb question, but how does the game track "on the ground", and is it capable of, say, calculating "10' from the ground" instead?

Makes you wonder, doesn't it? If it can track 10 from the ground, why can't it calculate "stuck in a wall"? #BringBackKnockBack

Edited August 1, 2023 by Herotu

[Tha-Antmann]

Have they fixed the glitch with foot stomp+hover yet? Because if they're not even on that yet, gl with anything more advanced for that or other similar powers.

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Tha-Antmann said:

Have they fixed the glitch with foot stomp+hover yet? Because if they're not even on that yet, gl with anything more advanced for that or other similar powers.

What do you mean? I've been able to hover at the ground and use Foot stomp all I want. Same with Lightning Rod.

[Frozen Burn]

Hmm... missed this thread this past summer.  Glad it was brought back up.  

 

I too would like to see some wiggle room added for ground-based powers.  Well... at least what i really want is Titan Weapon T9 power, Arc of Destruction to NOT be ground-based - there really is no reason it should be, but I'm guessing it's that way due to animation.  So, it could at minimum have the Foot Stomp leeway of being able to hover over the ground... that would be wonderful.

 

I have a small (not mini) fairy character that carries a Titan Weapon sword and is always flying/hovering a chest height of normal mobs when fighting.  I can't use my T9 power at all unless I have to turn off flight and drop to the ground.  I think that's excessive for swinging a weapon in a down ward arc.  I'm already swinging this giant thing around in every other which way - why is this one ground-based?? 

 

Anyway, I would settle for hitting the X button to sink lower a few feet if I had to.  Just please please please... either lift the restriction completely for the power, or give it Foot Stomp's hovering leeway.

[Rudra]

42 minutes ago, Frozen Burn said:

Hmm... missed this thread this past summer.  Glad it was brought back up.  

 

I too would like to see some wiggle room added for ground-based powers.  Well... at least what i really want is Titan Weapon T9 power, Arc of Destruction to NOT be ground-based - there really is no reason it should be, but I'm guessing it's that way due to animation.  So, it could at minimum have the Foot Stomp leeway of being able to hover over the ground... that would be wonderful.

 

I have a small (not mini) fairy character that carries a Titan Weapon sword and is always flying/hovering a chest height of normal mobs when fighting.  I can't use my T9 power at all unless I have to turn off flight and drop to the ground.  I think that's excessive for swinging a weapon in a down ward arc.  I'm already swinging this giant thing around in every other which way - why is this one ground-based?? 

 

Anyway, I would settle for hitting the X button to sink lower a few feet if I had to.  Just please please please... either lift the restriction completely for the power, or give it Foot Stomp's hovering leeway.

Arc of Destruction seems to be ground required because it is apparently a ground conducted/transferred attack. I do agree that it should be treated the same as Foot Stomp and Lightning Rod for simply needing to be near the ground though.

[Tha-Antmann]

On 1/28/2024 at 4:08 PM, Rudra said:

What do you mean? I've been able to hover at the ground and use Foot stomp all I want. Same with Lightning Rod.

Still glitched. Yes, you can use it, but the character motion-freezes until you use another skill. Lovely to be stuck flying around in combat stance.