Why Blapper Over Scrapper?

[Rinwen]

Hi, folks,

 

Again, I apologize for showing my ignorance, but... why Blapper over Scrapper? 

 

If your intent is to combine some ranged with a majority of melee, I get it... but if you're really just wanting melee, isn't the Scrapper a far better choice?

 

Is it a value to a team thing? A better at solo thing? Or just a concept thing?

 

The Scrapper now has pretty much all the same power options: Fire, Ice, Rad, Energy, Psi, Dark, Electric, etc, so I don't think it's a, "Gee, I wish I could have a Rad melee toon, guess I need to roll a Rad Blapper."

 

Do the Blapper melee attacks do more damage? 

 

Given the, (better?), defenses of the Scrapper aren't they the better "up close, in your face" option?

 

No, this isn't a troll thread. Yes, I tried some Google searches, but didn't find any threads on this, or the Reddit, forum discussing this comparison. 

 

I appreciate your insight, thank you. 

 

 

[biostem]

I don't think you can look at a blaster's melee attacks in isolation;  They do their best work when combining both ranged and melee attacks.

 

You can get a rough idea of the damage scales for each AT here, but that doesn't give you the whole picture;  Blasters get stacking damage buffs for each of their primary or secondary powers they use, so that has to be factored in as well.  Further, if you combine that with many blasters having access to both aim & buildup, not to mention being able to deal damage the entire time they are closing to melee range, things add up pretty quickly.  Don't get me wrong, scrappers also deal great damage, but they trade some of it away for that added degree of safety.

Edited August 28, 2023 by biostem

[Etched]

My pick is a blaster all the way. Why need to worry about super def/resist when you can take out the bad guy from a far. Most blasters secondary has some sort of resist/def/recov/regen in it. Add in the Fighting pool and Leadership and you can handle most Ranged/AoE/Melee. Not great resist/def but enough to keep you killin.

 

@Etched

[Lusiphur Malache]

I play blappers because back in the day on Live my main was a blaster, then I seen my first blapper and became obsessed.  Popular opinion back then was that blasters stayed at range and melee was in case of emergency if a mob ran up on you.  Blappers  laugh in the face of that theory, not only am I going to get in there with the scrappers and tankers, but I'm going to show that I belong there.

 

Consequently I also try to get 3 or 4 ranged attacks on scrappers cause I'm lazy and don't like to chase.

[Without_Pause]

I can't recall the last time a Scrapper joined the team, and I noticed. You'll notice when a Blaster is added. I've been on teams with two, and I feel like they should leave more for the rest of the team. 😀 End game Blasters are incredibly good right now.

[High_Beam]

45 minutes ago, Lusiphur Malache said:

Popular opinion back then was that blasters stayed at range and melee was in case of emergency if a mob ran up on you.

I was of that philosophy on live and even HC initially until I rolled a DP/MC and a DP/Ninja and they are Blaptastic and super fun.  Blasters are by design meant to fire primarily from range, their primaries mandate that.  The Secondaries and play style is where Blapping comes in, as well as Set IO slotting.  Some have more melee attacks while others have some attacks and some tools to enhance melee attacks, those are Blapper-centric.  Others, they are not conducive to mixing it up and now we are in the "only in an emergency zone".

 

MC for example is all powers awesome on the secondary for melee engagement and survivability while Devised is the opposite end of the spectrum, the Anti-Blap.

[Rinwen]

I guess I may just roll up a couple/few lv 50 Blappers on Test, kit 'em out in sets from relatively basic/easy to get to multi-billion inf trust fund babies to see if I like them enough to warrant rolling a "real" one(s) on the regular server.

 

So, is the basic play style to draw them in with a ranged attack or two, then melee them... or just jump into the midst and melee away ala a Scrapper? 

[Onlyasandwich]

The most compelling reason is aoe damage. Blasters do way more of it, even without the nuke. Also nuke!

 

Some blasters just jump in and pretend their blasts area all melee. This works fine if built sturdily enough and with clever application of controls in your secondary, but can hit a wall against certain content. 

 

There is also the old art of "jousting," for which @Nemu has a great guide. This allows you to more safely employ melee.

 

Don't underestimate the control power of the secondary though, especially aoe knockdowns. A cheat at high levels is to pick up bonfire with a kb to kd IO. 

[Without_Pause]

I still pick 2 ST attack and 2 AoEs + nuke from the primary. There simply might be some missions it is better to stay at range due to mezzes or the diff setting is a bit over your head. Carnies will drain End when they die so being at range can do wonders for your End bar. I'll pick the melee attacks I find useful. Anything with a mezz or AoE are easy adds.

[Lusiphur Malache]

1 hour ago, Rinwen said:

So, is the basic play style to draw them in with a ranged attack or two, then melee them... or just jump into the midst and melee away ala a Scrapper? 

Either is the right way.  My dark/martial snipes the biggest target, then uses burst of speed to get up close and personal.  My ice/ice just jumps in because I slow everything down around me and it only gets worse from there.

 

Martial is a very good secondary for a blapper, reaction time and burst of speed are must haves and ki push is so much fun.  I would pair martial with Electric, Dark, or Radiation very easily.

[carroto]

7 minutes ago, Lusiphur Malache said:

I would pair martial with Electric, Dark, or Radiation very easily.

 

Mine is Rad/Martial and I agree with everything you said.  Martial is made for being in melee range and has a unique feel.  Anyone who likes Blasters and hasn't tried it is missing out.

[Zect]

Blapping is an option for blasters to increase DPS by replacing weaker ranged attacks with stronger melee ones, and/or leveraging powerful pbaoes and damage/debuff auras.

 

Most blaster 2ndaries have access to a T2 (eg. fire sword) and T9 (eg. golden dragonfly) attack, or equivalent. Not only are these attacks typically stronger than the T1 and T2 ranged blasts of blasters, they offer the opportunity to add additional purple damage procs or other unique procs. Soundsplitter, for example, adds 2 purple damage procs to your rotation that you otherwise won't have. Furthermore, some 2ndaries reward melee play by offering damage auras or buff/debuff auras, such as /rad.

 

Some have also taken to blapping as a playstyle, challenging themselves to survive in close range without the defenses of an armored AT.

 

2 hours ago, Rinwen said:

So, is the basic play style to draw them in with a ranged attack or two, then melee them... or just jump into the midst and melee away ala a Scrapper? 

 

This comment has a disappointing lack of murderous intent. Are you certain a blaster is the right AT for you?

 

The basic blaster playstyle is:

• Slot the gaussian chance for build up proc in either aim or BU.
• Press both aim and BU. You are now nearly damage capped. (100% base + 100% BU + 80% gaussian's + 62.5% aim + 120% enhancements and musc alpha + 20% IO set bonuses and assault hybrid passive component = 482.5%, cap is 500%)
• Press the nuke and delete 90% of the spawn. You may need to move close to the enemy first.
• Clean up the survivors of nuclear bombardment two surviving half-health bosses with whatever attacks you have, melee or ranged.

The melee AT's do more ST dps under optimal conditions, but blasters as a whole are hideously overpowered in the modern coh meta.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Zect

[High_Beam]

My technique with my DP/MC Blapper is target the Boss, use Burst of Speed which is slotted with Procs, then unload Hail of Bullets with the defense buff.  Then snap off Burst of Speed two more times to get extra bump damage, then execute Eagles Claw while flipping backwards out of the mob then unloading Empty Clips then Bullet Rain.  Very little remains standing is at all.  With Ninja, I don't have BoS but its generally the same, swapping Eagles Claw with Golden Dragonfly.  Very defensible especially with Set IOs and leveraging the +DEF from Hail.  Di Di Guns and Two Gun Trixie have very few problems.

[Without_Pause]

1 hour ago, Lusiphur Malache said:

Martial is a very good secondary for a blapper, reaction time and burst of speed are must haves and ki push is so much fun.  I would pair martial with Electric, Dark, or Radiation very easily.

Dark uses cones enough to where I would rank something like DP higher. 

[Panache]

The Blaster secondaries have a bunch of different options for a very different gameplay experience from Scrappers. One of my favorite characters on Live was a Sonic/Energy Blapper who leaned a lot on Power/Range Boosted Sirens Song, Stun and Screech; basically leveled it like a Stalker.

 

Double "Build Up" is sometimes reason enough to blap.

[cranebump]

43 minutes ago, Zect said:

...blasters as a whole are hideously overpowered in the modern coh meta.

Yes they are. You get enough of them all kitted out, all running on the same team, it's just a snoozefest. BOOM! BOOM! BOOM! BOOM! (my turn again?) BOOM! (Hey--someone wanna snipe that runner the...thanks...)

Edited August 28, 2023 by cranebump

[High_Beam]

58 minutes ago, cranebump said:

Yes they are. You get enough of them all kitted out, all running on the same team, it's just a snoozefest. BOOM! BOOM! BOOM! BOOM! (my turn again?) BOOM! (Hey--someone wanna snipe that runner the...thanks...)

And sometimes, never use your alpha, anyone.

[Shred Monkey]

Blappers trade More DPS, for less survivability.  The logic is that if you're not dying anyway, why not hit harder?  Not to mention, having Nukes and other big AoE's on top of that ST DPS is a lot of fun.

 

Also, Blasters get top tier endurance recovery powers, so that brings with it some benefits as well.

[catsi563]

Blappers are interesting because while they dont have the take the hit survivability of a scrapper they are fully capable of dishing out every bit of punishment the scrapper can and often at all ranges unlike the scrapper who has to close the distance from short to point blank

 

interestingly enough with the additions of ninja and martial combat blappers became even more viable my own DP MC blapper is a near whirlwind in combat and is effective at every ranger short of long ranger where other buids with sniper shots excell

 

A blapper really just needs to make sure to utilize their ranged advantage and be ready to use their melee when people get close also dont be afraid to hit someone with a total focus or burn patch at need it can be devestating

[Solarverse]

As a Tank, stay out of my mobs...

There are too many players in melee range as it is, far too many. You get shoved all over the place by the collision mechanics, always fighting for position. Add Blasters who think they are scrappers to that mix, the problem becomes even worse. When that happens, I stop taunting and turn off taunt auras and watch the so called blappers die.

 

Seriously though, please stay out of melee, it's too crowded already.

[Rinwen]

5 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

As a Tank, stay out of my mobs...

There are too many players in melee range as it is, far too many. You get shoved all over the place by the collision mechanics, always fighting for position. Add Blasters who think they are scrappers to that mix, the problem becomes even worse. When that happens, I stop taunting and turn off taunt auras and watch the so called blappers die.

 

Seriously though, please stay out of melee, it's too crowded already.

 

Well, I wouldn't be a fly in your ointment since I'm exclusively a solo player 😁

[Spaghetti Betty]

13 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

As a Tank, stay out of my mobs...

There are too many players in melee range as it is, far too many. You get shoved all over the place by the collision mechanics, always fighting for position. Add Blasters who think they are scrappers to that mix, the problem becomes even worse. When that happens, I stop taunting and turn off taunt auras and watch the so called blappers die.

 

Seriously though, please stay out of melee, it's too crowded already.

I'll make sure to exclusively join your teams on my Blappers from now on!

[Spaghetti Betty]

Why Blappers? Because Blasters get access to Seismic Smash and Knockout Blow for some reason.

[Frozen Burn]

17 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

As a Tank, stay out of my mobs...

There are too many players in melee range as it is, far too many. You get shoved all over the place by the collision mechanics, always fighting for position. Add Blasters who think they are scrappers to that mix, the problem becomes even worse. When that happens, I stop taunting and turn off taunt auras and watch the so called blappers die.

 

Seriously though, please stay out of melee, it's too crowded already.

 

On a team, they aren't your mobs - they are the entire team's.  On a team, the tank's role is one of control - keep the mobs from looking at your teammates.  Gathering/herding can be a part of this to leverage gauntlet and your ranged taunt to make foes look at you easier - but again, that is your role to control the mobs in that way, so your teammates can do their part, - defeat them, buff/debuff, add further control, etc.  If you want them to be "your" mob only - then solo.  😛  

[Frozen Burn]

Blappers Always & Forever!  Blasters have higher damage scale.  They don't have to chase down foes as they try to run (if they survived) - just shoot them!  Not having a shield set makes it more fun and challenging - best defense is a strong offense!  ....and other Rah Rah Rah!  Yippees!  and Banner waving!  😄