Dual Pistols vs Assault Rifle

[TheOtherTed]

I have a character concept (former enforcer from the western part of the Pacific Rim (the region, not the movie)) that could use either set, but I can't quite decide between them for the dumbest of reasons:  Style.  Pistols has it in spades, but AR seems a bit deficient in that area (though the relatively long range snipe does add significant coolness factor).  Conversely, AR seems to deliver significantly more damage than Pistols, but I could be convinced that this is just my imagination.

 

In either case, I'd pair it with Martial Combat or Ninja Training.  I haven't given NT a fair shake, really, so I'm leaning in that direction.  Seems like the combo could have some "professional" coolness to it (i.e., an air of always-prepared, no-nonsense competence), but I can't deny lure of Pistols/MC.  That said, I already have MC on my Archer, and I have this dumb thing about repeating powersets among my characters.

 

Anyway, starting to ramble.  Would appreciate any feedback wrt style or damage while I go take my pills.

[Hyperstrike]

If you're looking for "warrior", go DP.

Unfortunately "rifle" implies "enforcer" or "goon"

Saint John of Woo has done yeoman work in this field.

 

[ryokoryu]

8 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

If you're looking for "warrior", go DP.

Unfortunately "rifle" implies "enforcer" or "goon"

Saint John of Woo has done yeoman work in this field.

 

This is entirely subjective.

[FupDup]

Assault Rifle gives off "commando" type vibes, like Rambo, Terminator, Duke Nukem, or Serious Sam. A big macho dude (or dudette) who's got an entire arsenal in their pocket. 

 

DP is more edgy assassin sneaky stuff like the Matrix, John Wick, Deadpool, Bayonetta, or Reaper from Overwatch. 

 

For gameplay, AR has a lot of cones which could mean a lot of repositioning to line them up after using melee attacks. DP only has one cone so it has much better synergy with melee-intensive playstyles. And if you did DP/Nin that's basically Deadpool. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by FupDup

[biostem]

10 hours ago, TheOtherTed said:

I have a character concept

How strongly are you set on this character being a blaster?  I have a 50 DP and a 50 AR sentinel, (dp/nin & ar/invuln, respectively).  Further, I have a 50 "Crabbermind" SoA which also uses his AR, and it's a very formidable character.  Could you elaborate upon what you are looking to get out of this character?  Cheers!

[TheOtherTed]

34 minutes ago, FupDup said:

And if you did DP/Nin that's basically Deadpool.

Aw, jeez, you know, why'd you have to say that? 🤢

 

Point taken about the difference in AR and Pistols vibe, though - none of those rifle models could be called "subtle."  The question is, can Pistols hold a candle to AR in terms of damage output and/or utility?  If not, I may  reconsider my original intent and run with one of the sleeker sci-fi looking AR models.

 

25 minutes ago, biostem said:

Could you elaborate upon what you are looking to get out of this character?

One of twin characters inspired by Melinda May from S.H.I.E.L.D. and the cheesier than cheese Hong Kong movie "The Heroic Trio."  I've got the melee side covered with MA/Ninjutsu, but still haven't figured out the ranged counterpart.  Both are "street level" Naturals.  The original intent was to have them start in The Zig and eventually go "hero" (or at least not completely irredeemable).

 

That said, I'm now thinking of starting the Blaster in Praetoria as the alternate world counterpart to the already existing Scrapper.

[biostem]

1 minute ago, TheOtherTed said:

One of twin characters inspired by Melinda May from S.H.I.E.L.D. and the cheesier than cheese Hong Kong movie "The Heroic Trio."  I've got the melee side covered with MA/Ninjutsu, but still haven't figured out the ranged counterpart.  Both are "street level" Naturals.  The original intent was to have them start in The Zig and eventually go "hero" (or at least not completely irredeemable).

Hmm... DP/Nin seems like a natural fit, then.  I find AR to be too "gimmicky", even taking into account DP's flashy animations.  Have you considered a bane spider leaning heavily into the AR attacks?  You could dip into the mace attacks if you wanted and leverage the rifle butt and bayonet attacks.  

[UltraAlt]

11 hours ago, TheOtherTed said:

Pistols has it in spades

 

 

I tend to go with martial arts with Dual Pistols, but I do have a DP/ninja blaster that I've had some fun playing.

 

11 hours ago, TheOtherTed said:

AR seems a bit deficient in that area (though the relatively long range snipe does add significant coolness factor).

 

 

With Chiba, I could see it going AR/MA or AR/Ninja.

 

I think I only have a AR/devices at this point. (Seems I'm thinking more about making another AR this week at any rate, so I might end up making an AR/? Soon^tm) 

When I take AR, I always end up getting some kind of stealth (Field Operative for devices) and that is built in with ninja (Shinobi), so I might go that route.

That AR/Devices was based on the Punisher. I don't know if I can really equate devices with the Punisher, but it seems to fit more than the other secondaries available at this point. I think Street Justice would be the way to go, but that isn't a blaster secondary yet.

 

Looks like this one might be a character conception based on build vs build based on character conception, but Golgo 13 here looks like a starting point.

 

11 hours ago, TheOtherTed said:

Anyway, starting to ramble.

 

 

[carroto]

AR will be better for damage without a doubt.  DP has more style, AR has more damage.  Your pick.  Every time I've played with DP in Mids' I end up scrapping the idea.  Haven't made one to this day after years of play.  You have to want that style badly enough.

[Psyonico]

DP has enough damage IMO... I've got 50s with DP with both Dev and MC.  Much like AR, it is an AoE set.

 

I haven't thoroughly tried out AR since the revamp (my AR/dev is only 27, I do have an AR/TA corr at 50, but haven't played him since the change), but I've never found AR to be that big of a damage powerhouse. 

 

I think you'll do fine with either choice.

[Ringo]

AR isn't a damage powerhouse but it does have quick cycling cone attacks for days (plus M30 grenade), and leveraging those cones for a screen full of orange numbers is one of the best parts of the set.  IMO trying to use the melee in your secondary with AR is going to feel a bit clunky.  I have a 50 AR/Pain Corr and jumping in and out of melee for the Pain Buff/Debuff targeting was only fun because my Corr was Resistance based and so getting hit (and not dying) was part of the excitement.

 

So it can be done, and Martial has that teleport-like power to potentially make it easier, but it's going to be a more active playstyle than just blasting away

[Hyperstrike]

11 hours ago, ryokoryu said:

This is entirely subjective.

Hello?

Character concept based on media influenced by eastern cinema.

They're not looking for a BUILD.

OF COURSE IT'S SUBJECTIVE.

[TheOtherTed]

1 hour ago, Hyperstrike said:

They're not looking for a BUILD.

Approximately 77.325% true.  However, my attempts to launch a Pistols character in the past have always felt unsatisfying, in spite of the animations.  Maybe I'll dig around for some guide to the set that isn't filled to the brim with Mids-type builds.

 

That said, if I go Pistols (and I kind of want to, at this point), what secondary Blaster set (besides Devices) would synergize well with it and still stay in the "highly trained human in street clothes" thing?  Doesn't necessarily have to be a strictly "natural" set.  On Live, for example, I ran an natural Archery / EM character and justified the energy pom-poms as contact gauntlets powered by a Rikti battery.  In other words, one item of conveniently explanatory and not-too-far-out-there super-tech isn't out of the question.

 

However, I draw the line at the "not magical because its aliens / mutants / cosmic energy" sort of thing.

 

Also, thanks to everyone who has posted so far.  I can feel this taking shape and, hopefully, I'll burp something out pretty soon.

[Psyonico]

1 hour ago, TheOtherTed said:

 what secondary Blaster set (besides Devices) would synergize well with it and still stay in the "highly trained human in street clothes" thing? 

You originally mentioned /Martial and /Ninja... my DP/Nin is only in the 20s, so the planned build I have for it is just that, planned, not tested.  But here are my builds for DP/Martial and DP/Ninja... note, I like tanky blasters

Dual Pistols - Martial Combat.mbd Dual Pistols - Ninja Training.mbd

[Frozen Burn]

AR lends itself to stay at range because of all the cones, while /Martial and /Ninja lend themselves to be better in melee range.  DP also lends itself to function well in melee range and has better synergy with /Martial and /Ninja than AR.  

[lemming]

DP/Martial does seem to be a popular combo. (I have one as well)  Martial is one of my favorite blaster secondaries though.

 

I also have the typical AR/Dev Blaster.

 

They play different, but both are fun.  Like others have said, AR is more range, DP is close in.    I'm not sure which one is the higher DPS since they're both still being kitted out.  The AR is a later build, so it's a bit more planned.  And when I'm solo, the AR can be risk free just with a few trip mines.  On teams, I rarely bother with the mines.

[ryokoryu]

13 hours ago, TheOtherTed said:

Approximately 77.325% true.  However, my attempts to launch a Pistols character in the past have always felt unsatisfying, in spite of the animations.  Maybe I'll dig around for some guide to the set that isn't filled to the brim with Mids-type builds.

 

That said, if I go Pistols (and I kind of want to, at this point), what secondary Blaster set (besides Devices) would synergize well with it and still stay in the "highly trained human in street clothes" thing?  Doesn't necessarily have to be a strictly "natural" set.  On Live, for example, I ran an natural Archery / EM character and justified the energy pom-poms as contact gauntlets powered by a Rikti battery.  In other words, one item of conveniently explanatory and not-too-far-out-there super-tech isn't out of the question.

 

However, I draw the line at the "not magical because its aliens / mutants / cosmic energy" sort of thing.

 

Also, thanks to everyone who has posted so far.  I can feel this taking shape and, hopefully, I'll burp something out pretty soon.

Martial is great and you can always go ninja also.  The dart immobilise gives a little bit of gadget feel to it without being full blown supertech like devices.  This would fit with many akimbo themed anime/manga archetypes.  Ninja also has that built in defense in its stealth to slot as an LOTG mule.  Bonus if you stick stealth in sprint and actually get to sneak places if you want but it is a nice little damage boost out of stealth.  Channel the inner Doaks and there are enough skins for the sword powers to make it not look like a ninja blade or Katana and even look like a survival knife if you want it to.  

[ryokoryu]

also curse you for giving me more alt ideas, I have so many I can't keep up 😃

[TheOtherTed]

12 hours ago, ryokoryu said:

also curse you for giving me more alt ideas, I have so many I can't keep up 😃

Just remember, if you're going the "Heroic Trio" route, you'd best be prepared to fight in stiletto heels.

 

So I went with Pistols / Nin, and the phase 1 playtest felt better than previous attempts.  Not sure why - could be the venue (I'm fighting ghouls and cops instead of snakes - sooo many snakes...), or it could be the character's outfit (the "alternate reality" of Praetoria helps me be more open to costume options that I wouldn't give a second look at in Atlas Park or the Isles).

 

My only regret so far is that there are no Yakuza tattoo options for gloves (that I could see), and that the Yakuza chest options don't allow asymmetry - you have to tattoo both upper arms, or pick something else.

[SwitchFade]

I got this, peoples...

 

AR has one gun,

 

Pistols has two guns.

 

Solv'd.

[Doomguide2005]

Calling @Linea who i know at least was a fan of DP.  Not sure how much has changed over time but if remember correctly one of their earlier ITF solo characters was a DP.  The damage is there at least enough that the difference between DP and AR shouldn't matter to someone looking strongly for style and flavor over pure raw min max.

[Linea]

*shrug*

DP takes a proc build nicely.   No idea what the current state of proc builds is.  Raw DP is/was middle-tier at best, but is still good enough to solo a +4x8 ITF.

I had a DP/Nin I ran a great deal "Just for Fun", she soloed a +4x8 ITF.   /MC is also a good pick for this one.

 

AR has been improved over the years. 
Also did a triple snipe build, but I think that one was Beam/Eng. However, AR would work too.   I'd do this one /Eng or /Nin.  /MC just doesn't "feel" right with AR to me.

 

 

 

[Ringo]

Triple Snipe Build?

[ryokoryu]

2 hours ago, Ringo said:

Triple Snipe Build?

Primary snipe, secondary snipe, Epic snipe

[Linea]

19 hours ago, Ringo said:

Triple Snipe Build?

Alpha +Range, Power Boost, Clarion +Range, Boost Range, ... Primary Snipe +Range +KB, LRM Snipe/Nuke, Judgement Snipe/Nuke (Range Boosted Fire), Primary Snipe, Range boosted Nuke. 

 

You hit your target, KB/KD it, LRM nuke the area, about the time it tries to stand up another snipe or nuke hits .. it starts running toward you and you snipe or nuke it again, then as it gets about half way there you nuke it again.  It and it's buddies are mostly dead, so you snipe the left overs KB/KD them ... and it's done.  Then you let it all recharge, and start stalking your next target and calibrating the various ranges so you can do it all over again.  I have a list of ranges written down somewhere for when I was playing with this one.

 

The hardest part was figuring out the various ranges and the fire order (which is probably incorrect above as it's been ages).   Your range ends up exceeding maximum entity draw distance, and even exceeding maximum pve targeting distance.  You can literally shoot stuff from so far away you can't even see it.  A fun but otherwise pointless build.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Linea