Pet Defense - rank from best to worst please

[Zewks]

So from the idea of "Easiest to hit the defense softcap" to "hardest to hit it", how would you rank the different MM pet groups? IE: Undead, Beasts, Bots, etc).

[tidge]

The "defense softcap" means different things for different tiers of Henchmen, and for different levels of content a MM will be facing.... how easy depends almost entirely on the secondary, not the primary.

[Zewks]

6 minutes ago, tidge said:

The "defense softcap" means different things for different tiers of Henchmen, and for different levels of content a MM will be facing.... how easy depends almost entirely on the secondary, not the primary.

 

The the pets types themselves dont get any inherent bonuses to defense compared to each other?

[Xandyr]

Some pets, like Beasts, Ninjas have inherently higher Defense than others. Are you asking for Base Defense Numbers for each pet?

 Obviously with Pets that have inherent Defense they will be easier to softcap with your secondary. I think those would be Ninjas, Beasts, Bots. Then maybe Necro. But, I don't have those numbers.

[Glacier Peak]

Here's a layout of damage resistances of each Henchmen by powerset. Clicking the name will take you to the specific page entry on City of Data that also shows Defense and other Henchmen status resistance. 

 

Beast Mastery

•  Howler Wolf: +18.675% Dmg Res (Smashing, Lethal, Cold)

•  Howler Wolf: +18.675% Dmg Res (Smashing, Lethal, Cold)

•  Howler Wolf Alpha: +18.675% Dmg Res (Smashing, Lethal, Cold)

•  Lioness: +29.88% Dmg Res (Smashing, Lethal, Cold)

•  Lioness: +29.88% Dmg Res (Smashing, Lethal, Cold)

•  Dire Wolf: +29.88% Dmg Res (Smashing, Lethal, Cold)

Demon Summoning

•  Fiery Demonling: 12.45% Dmg Res (Cold, Toxic), +26.145% Dmg Res (Smashing, Lethal), and +37.35% Dmg Res (Fire)

•  Cold Demonling: 12.45% Dmg Res (Fire, Toxic), +26.145% Dmg Res (Smashing, Lethal), and +37.35% Dmg Res (Cold)

•  Hellfire Demonling: 12.45% Dmg Res (Fire, Cold), +26.145% Dmg Res (Smashing, Lethal), and +37.35% Dmg Res (Toxic)

•  Ember Demon: +12.45% Dmg Res (Cold), +37.35% Dmg Res (Fire), and +24.9% Dmg Res (Smashing, Lethal, Toxic)

•  Hellfire Gargoyle: +12.45% Dmg Res (Cold), +24.9% Dmg Res (Fire), +31.125% Dmg Res (Smashing, Lethal), +37.35% Dmg Res (Toxic)

•  Demon Prince: +19.92% Dmg Res (Cold), +7.47% Dmg Res (Fire), +17.43% Dmg Res (Lethal, Smashing), and +19.92% Dmg Res (Toxic)

Mercenaries

•  Soldier: Unknown

•  Soldier: Unknown

•  Medic: Unknown

•  Spec Ops: Unknown

•  Spec Ops: Unknown

•  Commando: Unknown

Necromancy

•  Zombie: (2.7 * Melee_Res_Dmg)% Dmg Res (Smashing, Cold, Negative Energy, Psionic, Toxic)

•  Zombie: (2.7 * Melee_Res_Dmg)% Dmg Res (Smashing, Cold, Negative Energy, Psionic, Toxic)

•  Zombie: (2.7 * Melee_Res_Dmg)% Dmg Res (Smashing, Cold, Negative Energy, Psionic, Toxic)

•  Grave Knight: +27% Dmg Res (Smashing, Cold, Negative Energy, Psionic, Toxic)

•  Grave Knight: +27% Dmg Res (Smashing, Cold, Negative Energy, Psionic, Toxic)

•  Lich: +33.75% Dmg Res (Smashing, Cold, Negative Energy, Psionic, Toxic)

Ninjas

•  Genin: None

•  Genin: None

•  Genin: None

•  Jounin: None

•  Jounin: None

•  Oni: +52.29% Dmg Res (Fire) and +26.145% Dmg Res (Smashing, Lethal)

Robotics

•  Battle Droid: +18.75% Dmg Res (Lethal, Cold, Psionic)

•  Battle Droid: +18.75% Dmg Res (Lethal, Cold, Psionic)

•  Battle Droid: +18.75% Dmg Res (Lethal, Cold, Psionic)

•  Protector Bot: +25% Dmg Res (Lethal, Cold, Psionic)

•  Protector Bot: +25% Dmg Res (Lethal, Cold, Psionic)

•  Repair Drone: +26.145% Dmg Res (Lethal, Cold, Psionic)

•  Assault Bot: +31.25% Dmg Res (Lethal, Cold, Psionic)

Thugs

•  Thug: None

•  Thug: None

•  Arsonist: +26.145% Dmg Res (Fire)

•  Enforcer: +26.145% Dmg Res (Lethal)

•  Enforcer: +26.145% Dmg Res (Lethal)

•  Bruiser: +6.549% Dmg Res (Fire, Cold, Toxic) and +26.145% Dmg Res (Smashing, Lethal)

Edited February 25 by Glacier Peak

[Zewks]

Seems to be some overall lack of balance between some of the pets based on those values.

 

Specifically with Ninjas

 

But thats just on first glance

[tidge]

4 hours ago, Zewks said:

 

The the pets types themselves dont get any inherent bonuses to defense compared to each other?

 

I think there is an argument to be made that the henchmen (not pets) primaries that include a summonable pet attack (e.g. Hell on Earth, Gang War) which can slot the Global +Defense pieces have an easier time of achieving higher defense numbers (than primaries that do not). IIRC Beast includes an actual +Def power. Protector Bots will Bubble other henchmen (and the MM) for a hefty amount.

 

As I wrote above: as for Defense, it is pretty much the secondary where Defense numbers will come from.

[Maelwys]

Thug Enforcer Maneuvers and Protector Bot Bubbles add substantial amounts of Defence; and the 'Bot Bubbles will buff the MM.
(Bots *used to* buff other pets as well... unfortunately no longer, but they now apply almost instantly and the value is a good bit higher: ~22% Def to everything when slotted up)

Generally I find Bots easiest to hit Softcap - technically with Incarnate slots them hitting 40-45% defence doesn't even require any powers from your secondary at all.
They also have decent self-healing potential between the Protector Bots and the Repair Drone.
Bot Damage Resistances are definitely a bit of a mixed batch though (Lethal is OK, but Cold and Psionic are very situational) so if you're fighting anything that manages to get through all that defence they'll tend to get one-shot rather than chipped to death.

The likes of Demons have a far better spread of Damage Resistances; especially with the LT pet's "Ember Shield" buff... but you'll definitely need to strongly leverage your secondary to softcap their defence.

For general hardiness without factoring in secondary, I'd go with something like Bots > Thugs/Mercs > Demons/Beasts > Necro > Ninjas.
Bots have sky-high defence and self-healing. Thugs have good defense and resistance and Gang War, Mercs have good resistance and self-healing and Serum; Demons/Beasts have decent resistance and self-healing. Necro has debuffs and limited self-healing. Ninjas have... caltrops and smoke bombs and halitosis?
_{(OK, dig at the Katana Cosplay brigade aside: They get 13.5% Defence to Melee/Ranged and 18% to AoE, plus a weak self-heal on a 45s timer. Now compare that with Necro's much quicker self-healing, at least half-a-softcap's worth of ToHit debuffs plus Soul Extraction and a semi-decent spread of Damage Resistances.)}

EDIT: also - Base Numbers for Mercs:
Soldier/Medic/Spec Ops = 26.145% Damage Resistance (Smashing, Lethal)
Commando = the above plus +6.549% Damage Resistance (Fire, Cold, Toxic)
 

Edited February 26 by Maelwys

[WumpusRat]

16 hours ago, Zewks said:

Seems to be some overall lack of balance between some of the pets based on those values.

 

Specifically with Ninjas

 

But thats just on first glance

The ninjas don't have any resists to speak of (other than the oni), but they have high defense and a self-heal once you get their upgrades slotted up.

 

The Train Ninjas power gives the genin around 17% defense, the jounin 23% defense, and the oni 29% defense, and all get about 5-10% more vs aoe, as well. Combine that with the auras, maneuvers, secondary sets' +def powers, etc, and the ninjas can hit the defense cap pretty quickly depending on the secondary you have.

 

My nija/empathy MM's pets are at 49% melee/range and 70% aoe for the genin, 55% m/r and 93% aoe for the jounin, and 61% m/r and 86% aoe for the oni, due to having enough recharge in the build to keep fortitude on all six pets at once.

Edited February 26 by WumpusRat

[Zewks]

3 hours ago, WumpusRat said:

The ninjas don't have any resists to speak of (other than the oni), but they have high defense and a self-heal once you get their upgrades slotted up.

 

The Train Ninjas power gives the genin around 17% defense, the jounin 23% defense, and the oni 29% defense, and all get about 5-10% more vs aoe, as well. Combine that with the auras, maneuvers, secondary sets' +def powers, etc, and the ninjas can hit the defense cap pretty quickly depending on the secondary you have.

 

My nija/empathy MM's pets are at 49% melee/range and 70% aoe for the genin, 55% m/r and 93% aoe for the jounin, and 61% m/r and 86% aoe for the oni, due to having enough recharge in the build to keep fortitude on all six pets at once.

 

Nice, this is great info!

 

Do you find ninja's struggling with no resists even though their defenses are soft capped? 

 

And for keeping Fortitude up on all 6 pets... thats basically having to buff a unique pet at least every 20 seconds if not sooner. Did you set up any sort macro to help out with this?

[Maelwys]

2 hours ago, Zewks said:

And for keeping Fortitude up on all 6 pets... thats basically having to buff a unique pet at least every 20 seconds if not sooner. Did you set up any sort macro to help out with this?

If you haven't already, I'd strongly recommend setting up Numpad text file binds for targeting, commanding and buffing your henchmen individually.


Personally I've used largely the same bind/macro setup for my MMs since issue6, and they look something like this (example given is for Robots):
 

Spoiler

[robot_pets.txt]
numpadenter "bindloadfile c:\Games\coh\mm\robot_team.txt"
numpad1 "bindloadfilesilent c:\Games\coh\mm\alpha1.txt$$petselect_name Alpha 1" 
numpad2 "bindloadfilesilent c:\Games\coh\mm\alpha2.txt$$petselect_name Alpha 2" 
numpad3 "bindloadfilesilent c:\Games\coh\mm\alpha3.txt$$petselect_name Alpha 3" 
numpad4 "bindloadfilesilent c:\Games\coh\mm\delta1.txt$$petselect_name Delta 1" 
numpad5 "bindloadfilesilent c:\Games\coh\mm\delta2.txt$$petselect_name Delta 2" 
numpad6 "bindloadfilesilent c:\Games\coh\mm\assault.txt$$petselect_name Epsilon 1"
numpad7 petcom_all Attack 
numpad8 petcom_all Follow 
numpad9 petcom_all Goto 
subtract "powexec_name Equip Robot" 
add "powexec_name Upgrade Robot"
decimal petcom_all Stay 

The text files referred to in numpad1 - numpad6 are each something like this:

[file alpha1.txt]
numpad7 petcom_name "Alpha 1" Attack 
numpad8 petcom_name "Alpha 1" Follow 
numpad9 petcom_name "Alpha 1" Goto
decimal petcom_name "Alpha 1" Stay 

(the other files just replace "Alpha 1" with the various other respective pet names)

Then the finishing touch is numpadenter, which is the only one that does NOT load silently; so that you get feedback in the chat window telling you which mode it's in.

[robot_team.txt]
numpadenter "bindloadfile c:\Games\coh\mm\robot_pets.txt"
numpad1 "team_select 1" 
numpad2 "team_select 2" 
numpad3 "team_select 3" 
numpad4 "team_select 4" 
numpad5 "team_select 5" 
numpad6 "team_select 6" 
numpad7 "team_select 7" 
numpad8 "team_select 8" 
numpad9 petcom_all Goto 
subtract "powexec_name Equip Robot" 
add "powexec_name Upgrade Robot"
decimal petcom_all Stay 

The upshot is that I can tap NumpadEnter to switch between "select my teammates" mode and "select my henchmen" mode.
When in team select mode, tapping numpad1 through numpad8 individually targets/selects each of my current team members.
When in henchmen select mode, tapping numpad1 through numpad6 individually targets/selects my henchmen, and numpad 7/8 issue them the Attack/Follow commands.
The numpad9 and numpad "." are always GOTO and STAY commands (for either the selected henchman or all henchmen) and numpad+ and numpad- always activate the equip and upgrade abilities.

That leaves the numpad "0", "/" and "*" keys for other regularly-used ally-targeted buffs/heals; such as Fortitude, Clear Mind and Heal Other; and they can be applied to whatever individual henchmen/ally you wish with just two button presses.

I typically also bind the "B" key to Follow/Defensive [Bodyguard], the "G" Key to [AGgressive] and the "H" key to Follow/Passive [Heel].
The "V" key is a mixture of Defensive and Aggressive [Variable] - typically 1-2 tougher henchmen = aggressive, the rest = defensive; AKA "lazy autopilot mode".
After all that, the only pet commands I need on the actual power tray is an "Attack my current target" override command; plus the summons themselves.
 

Edited February 26 by Maelwys

[Ringo]

With Ninjas having lower resist values they tend to pair best with secondaries that buff their defense or debuff enemy to-hit.  Forcefield, Cold, Dark, Storm, Traps, Time, Rad, and Trick Arrow.

 

*and Empathy, but that's definitely a lot of Fortitude spam

Edited February 27 by Ringo

[WumpusRat]

23 hours ago, Zewks said:

 

Nice, this is great info!

 

Do you find ninja's struggling with no resists even though their defenses are soft capped? 

 

And for keeping Fortitude up on all 6 pets... thats basically having to buff a unique pet at least every 20 seconds if not sooner. Did you set up any sort macro to help out with this?

 

They definitely struggled a bit early on, since it takes a while for Empathy to really reach the point where you can start juggernaut-ing your way through stuff on the power of fortitude and regen aura. My goal for this particular build was to get as close to the recharge cap as I can, to leverage Regen and Recovery Aura as much as possible. I'd tested the idea out a few times with other pet builds, and it worked pretty well, so I was curious how it'd do with ninjas, since their damage output is so high they can chew through enemies in seconds.

 

Overall, the only time I really struggle is against particular EBs or AVs who can one-shot the pets despite their defense, or ones who spam caltrops or other such things (I'm glaring at YOU, Silver Mantis) since that's always been a huge issue for MM pets in general. A lot of times I don't even bother putting fortitude on all of them since mobs die so fast and their defense without it is enough to that most mobs can't get past my healing. I generally only NEED fortitude against EB/AVs. 

 

And yeah, if I want to keep fortitude on all of them it DOES require tossing it out pretty often. Mine's on a 17s recharge, so I've got a bit of leeway in terms of "must cast on cooldown". But if I'm trying to keep it going on all of them I have to pay attention to the cooldown pretty closely. Though the oni can definitely get along fine without it, as he's got 43% m/r def and 68% aoe before fortitude. The damage buff is nice though. 

 

It's definitely not my strongest MM build, but it's a lot of fun and Empathy is actually a decent choice for soloing as a MM, as you have a premade team with you to benefit from the buffs.