IO Set question

[Wolfboy1]

I am quite sure this has been answered before somewhere but is most likely buried after years, my question is this:

 

If I put a, hypothetically, Luck of the Gambler (Defense/Global Recharge Speed) on a power that I never plan to use directly...will it still confer the bonus even if I never actually click on said power?

[Frostbiter]

It's a global bonus, so it should apply to any power you use that is effected by your recharge bonus.

[Herotu]

I know where you're coming from tho. The system has lots of weird quirks to ensure that things that might be cool/OP, don't work as you might think. 

I think the enhancement system could do with some clarifications or warnings or somethings - WHEN you're using it.

[Wolfboy1]

2 minutes ago, Herotu said:

I know where you're coming from tho. The system has lots of weird quirks to ensure that things that might be cool/OP, don't work as you might think.

 

Yeah I couldn't remember if it was like that or not.

 

8 minutes ago, Frostbiter said:

It's a global bonus, so it should apply to any power you use that is effected by your recharge bonus.

 

Your right, it does.  Thanks for the answer! 😄 

[Sunsette]

4 hours ago, Wolfboy1 said:

I am quite sure this has been answered before somewhere but is most likely buried after years, my question is this:

 

If I put a, hypothetically, Luck of the Gambler (Defense/Global Recharge Speed) on a power that I never plan to use directly...will it still confer the bonus even if I never actually click on said power?

 

Your question has been answered, but let me go into things a little more in detail. There are two or three categories of special enhancements: globals, procs, and on-use.

 

A global is always active under any circumstance as long as you have not exemplared below the level at which the enhancement which grants it could be nominally slotted. For example, if your enhancements are level 50, the globals on those enhancements will function as long as you are level 47 or higher. IO set bonuses are globals. Most globals are passive and consistent benefits, though the Preventative Medicine +Absorb effect is reactive. You can only benefit from up to 5 of the same global, even if it comes from different sets. Luck of the Gambler's +7.5% recharge bonus is considered a separate global from IO sets that provide +7.5% recharge time, but that's the only psuedo-exception I can think of to the rule of five.

 

The next two types can be considered as one being a special case of the other if you think taxonomically, but their reliability is wildly different. Both check for a trigger when a power is activated, or if an auto-power or toggle, every 10 seconds. Both always work regardless of what level you have exemplared to or what level the enhancement is.

 

A proc triggers under extremely complex percent chance calculations that max at 90%, based on your slotted recharge (including from the alpha slot) and the power's natural animation and recharge times, among many other factors. Procs have a wide variety of effects, but will always have a tooltip description that says they will trigger "roughly X times per minute". If a proc buffs the user, the buff generally does not stack from multiple activations.

 

An on-use special enhancement always triggers when a power is used. These are usually passive benefits that have a duration of 120 seconds from the last time they were triggered.

Edited March 8 by Sunsette

[Wolfboy1]

Appreciate the detailed explanation @Sunsette 🙂

[Frostbiter]

Being functionally a set bonus, the rule of five also applies.

[Scarlet Shocker]

2 hours ago, Frostbiter said:

It's a global bonus, so it should apply to any power you use that is affected by your recharge bonus.

 

Fixed it for you, for effect.

[SuperPlyx]

53 minutes ago, Sunsette said:

. Luck of the Gambler's +7.5% recharge bonus is considered a separate global from IO sets that provide +7.5% recharge time, but that's the only psuedo-exception I can think of to the rule of five.

I have wondered if there was another bonus that worked like this. Like the Impervium Skin Psi resist, anybody ever slot 5 of those and Had a IO set with 6%Psi resist. 

Yes I just slotted a Invul tank, 😛

[Sunsette]

5 minutes ago, SuperPlyx said:

I have wondered if there was another bonus that worked like this. Like the Impervium Skin Psi resist, anybody ever slot 5 of those and Had a IO set with 6%Psi resist. 

Yes I just slotted a Invul tank, 😛

 

From looking on City of Data, I think that should be fine and stack. The easiest way to test would be to check combat attributes; if the effects have different names under the breakdown of your psi resistance, you're good.

Edited March 8 by Sunsette

[Riverdusk]

I just call LoTG +7.5% a set bonus myself as that is what the game itself labels it as.  You can look in game under Menu-Personal Info-Powers and you'll see the "LoTG: recharge speed" shows up under your character's list of "Set Bonuses", and it works exactly as a set bonus.  So, I've always wondered why people call them a separate term of a "global"  Most if not all of the other ones as well that people describe as "globals" are also actually just single piece "set bonuses".   If any IO you've slotted shows up on that list as a set bonus, then you know it is an IO that works under the same rules of a set bonus.

 

I've definitely gotten some big time flack in help channel before on this same question when I respond that the LoTG +recharge works as a set bonus and people yelling at me "it isn't a set bonus, it's a global!"   

 

I suppose it is confusing to some people that there can be single IO's that are a "set" bonus, but personally I'd rather stick to what the game itself labels them.

 

I've also seen some people describe the "on-use" ones as globals as well, so that just makes the term even more confusing to me personally, if I didn't know already how they work anyway.

 

Really good breakdown of how each works by @Sunsette though.

 

 

[Sunsette]

 

26 minutes ago, Riverdusk said:

I've definitely gotten some big time flack in help channel before on this same question when I respond that the LoTG +recharge works as a set bonus and people yelling at me "it isn't a set bonus, it's a global!"   

 

Hate when people do that, you have my sympathies. I occasionally get yelled at similarly when I'm distinguishing what I call on-use vs. procs even when the point of discussion is someone confused about the two.

 

I definitely see your logic in using 'set bonus' to describe LotG. I'm not picky about terminology except as it provides clarification, and City of Heroes built its lexicon in fairly myopic and confusing ways so there aren't any good choices really, lol. I'm happy to bow to whatever's dominant wording. 

[Frostbiter]

2 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

Fixed it for you, for effect.

 

I honestly don't know why effect and affect are different words. I'll never keep them straight.

[Scarlet Shocker]

10 minutes ago, Frostbiter said:

 

I honestly don't know why effect and affect are different words. I'll never keep them straight.

 

the way you write affects the effect you wish to convey

 

Useful linkage https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/affect-vs-effect-usage-difference

 

 

Edited March 8 by Scarlet Shocker
linky

[Frostbiter]

5 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

the way you write affects the effect you wish to convey

 

I'm not high enough for this. Can I sit in the back and stick pencils in the ceiling?

[Riverdusk]

21 minutes ago, Sunsette said:

 

 

City of Heroes built its lexicon in fairly myopic and confusing ways so there aren't any good choices really, lol. I'm happy to bow to whatever's dominant wording. 

 

Nah, CoH uses perfectly consistent terminology.   That's why to this day you still have to buy "Snare duration" common IO's instead of them being called slow.   Not to mention how often "stun" and "disorient" are used in different places.  😄

[Grouchybeast]

2 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

the way you write affects the effect you wish to convey

 

Funnily enough, 'the way you write effects the affect you wish to convey' would also be a valid sentence.

[Major_Decoy]

5 hours ago, Sunsette said:

Luck of the Gambler's +7.5% recharge bonus is considered a separate global from IO sets that provide +7.5% recharge time, but that's the only psuedo-exception I can think of to the rule of five.

It has a different name. All 10% recharge bonuses are Ultimate Improved Recharge Time Bonus, and that power will stack up to 5 times.

The 7.5% recharge bonus from Basilisk's Gaze is named Huge Improved Recharge Time Bonus and that power will stack up to 5 times.

The 7.5% recharge bonus from Luck of the Gambler is named Luck of the Gambler: Recharge Speed and that power will stack up to 5 times.

 

Thunderstrike has a six piece bonus +2.5% Ranged Defense named Moderate Increased Ranged/Energy/Negative Energy Def Bonus.

Superior Winter's Bite has a five piece set bonus +2.5% Ranged Defense named Ultimate Increased Energy/Negative Energy/Ranged Def Bonus.

Despite the fact that they both give +2.5 Ranged Defense, you can stack 5 Thunderstrike with the Superior Winter's Bite bonus because they have different names and are thusly treated as different powers.

[Sunsette]

9 minutes ago, Major_Decoy said:

It has a different name. All 10% recharge bonuses are Ultimate Improved Recharge Time Bonus, and that power will stack up to 5 times.

The 7.5% recharge bonus from Basilisk's Gaze is named Huge Improved Recharge Time Bonus and that power will stack up to 5 times.

The 7.5% recharge bonus from Luck of the Gambler is named Luck of the Gambler: Recharge Speed and that power will stack up to 5 times.

 

Thunderstrike has a six piece bonus +2.5% Ranged Defense named Moderate Increased Ranged/Energy/Negative Energy Def Bonus.

Superior Winter's Bite has a five piece set bonus +2.5% Ranged Defense named Ultimate Increased Energy/Negative Energy/Ranged Def Bonus.

Despite the fact that they both give +2.5 Ranged Defense, you can stack 5 Thunderstrike with the Superior Winter's Bite bonus because they have different names and are thusly treated as different powers.

 

This one's actually fine -- they're two different set bonuses and only part of their functions overlap. One is +5 En/N D, +2.5 R D, the other is +2.5 R D, +1.25 En/N. By CoX standards, that's actually very clear and distinguishable. While the different name thing is correct, outside of the combat attributes window it's hard to learn the name of any buff, so I don't use that point when trying to explain the system to newbies very much -- many people are not even aware the combat attributes window exists.

Edited March 9 by Sunsette

[Wolfboy1]

Haha, I certainly didn't think this would turn into such a debate.  🙂

[Scarlet Shocker]

1 hour ago, Wolfboy1 said:

Haha, I certainly didn't think this would turn into such a debate.  🙂

 

If enough people pile in it will be a mass debate!

[Scarlet Shocker]

6 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

 

Funnily enough, 'the way you write effects the affect you wish to convey' would also be a valid sentence.

 

Very true, but effectively archaic and might affect the reader's perception of your age! 🤣

[JasperStone]

11 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

It has a different name. All 10% recharge bonuses are Ultimate Improved Recharge Time Bonus, and that power will stack up to 5 times.

The 7.5% recharge bonus from Basilisk's Gaze is named Huge Improved Recharge Time Bonus and that power will stack up to 5 times.

The 7.5% recharge bonus from Luck of the Gambler is named Luck of the Gambler: Recharge Speed and that power will stack up to 5 times.

 

Thunderstrike has a six piece bonus +2.5% Ranged Defense named Moderate Increased Ranged/Energy/Negative Energy Def Bonus.

Superior Winter's Bite has a five piece set bonus +2.5% Ranged Defense named Ultimate Increased Energy/Negative Energy/Ranged Def Bonus.

Despite the fact that they both give +2.5 Ranged Defense, you can stack 5 Thunderstrike with the Superior Winter's Bite bonus because they have different names and are thusly treated as different powers.

Oh ... wow

I looked at the first part, not the second,  when slotting.

Thank you

[tidge]

16 hours ago, SuperPlyx said:

I have wondered if there was another bonus that worked like this. Like the Impervium Skin Psi resist, anybody ever slot 5 of those and Had a IO set with 6%Psi resist. 

Yes I just slotted a Invul tank, 😛

 

Even more that Invulnerability, I find that Energy Aura is a set with a bigger "Psi Hole", because the lack of inherent positional defenses. Slot away with Psi resists!