Does Dark Regeneration need a balance pass?

[SeraphimKensai]

Lately I've been replaying Dark Armor, and I'm wondering if Dark Regeneration needs a balance pass.

 

I think it's safe to agree that most people believe that Dark Armor is a very endurance intensive powerset, due to all its toggles. It was originally designed as a scrapper armor set to pair with Dark Melee (which has dark consumption as an end recovery tool). The set was later proliferated to the other melee ATs.

 

Dark Regeneration is a pbaoe minor neg damage that provides healing based on the density surrounding the player.

• 20 feet  radius
• 562 hp/target
• caps out at 10 targets
• base recharge is 30 seconds
• end cost of 33.8.

 

I might be wrong, but I don't believe there's a single power in the game that requires more base endurance to us. That is a huge endurance tax on one of the most endurance heavy powersets in the game.

 

As a solution, I would suggest lowering the endurance per use cost of Dark Regeneration and also provide an endurance per target to refill the player's end bar.

 

Similar powers that achieve this are Stygian Circle (albeit that works on dead targets only, its base recharge is 30 seconds as well), DNA Siphon, or Radiation Therapy.

 

Most people suggest slotting a theft of the essence proc into the power, but in play testing this doesn't provide for a dependable endurance boost, especially in relation to that endurance cost of the power itself.

 

What do you think about Dark Armor and more precisely Dark Regeneration?

 

As always thanks.

 

 

Edited April 15 by SeraphimKensai

[FupDup]

The reason it has such extreme endurance cost is because it has extreme healing, like several health bars worth per click. It's complete overkill, so even reducing the heal a bit in exchange for reducing the end cost would probably be a net buff most of the time. 

[PoptartsNinja]

35 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Lately I've been replaying Dark Armor, and I'm wondering if Dark Regeneration needs a balance pass.

 

I think it's safe to agree that most people believe that Dark Armor is a very endurance intensive powerset, due to all its toggles. It was originally designed as a scrapper armor set to pair with Dark Melee (which has dark consumption as an end recovery tool). The set was later proliferated to the other melee ATs.

 

Dark Regeneration is a pbaoe minor neg damage that provides healing based on the density surrounding the player.

• 20 feet  radius
• 562 hp/target
• caps out at 10 targets
• base recharge is 30 seconds
• end cost of 33.8.

 

I might be wrong, but I don't believe there's a single power in the game that requires more base endurance to us. That is a huge endurance tax on one of the most endurance heavy powersets in the game.

 

As a solution, I would suggest lowering the endurance per use cost of Dark Regeneration and also provide an endurance per target to refill the player's end bar.

 

Similar powers that achieve this are Stygian Circle (albeit that works on dead targets only, its base recharge is 30 seconds as well), DNA Siphon, or Radiation Therapy.

 

Most people suggest slotting a theft of they essence proc into the power, but in play testing this doesn't provide for a dependable endurance boost, especially in relation to that endurance cost of the power itself.

 

What do you think about Dark Armor and more precisely Dark Regeneration?

 

As always thanks.

 

 

Slot the accurate healing chance for +end into it and it's also (usually) a blue bar reset after use.

[SeraphimKensai]

15 minutes ago, PoptartsNinja said:

Slot the accurate healing chance for +end into it and it's also (usually) a blue bar reset after use.

In the very post you quote I already mention that proc. It is not that reliable. Stand in a group of mobs and fire off dark regen and see how often it actually procs.

[SeraphimKensai]

46 minutes ago, FupDup said:

The reason it has such extreme endurance cost is because it has extreme healing, like several health bars worth per click. It's complete overkill, so even reducing the heal a bit in exchange for reducing the end cost would probably be a net buff most of the time. 

The heal is ridiculously powerful. At lvl 50, it takes 6.2 mobs affected to heal the tanker HP cap. It affects up to 10 targets, so at no time whatsoever are the final 3 targets ever used for actual healing as they are over healing, and that's before slotting it for any kind of heal enhancement.

 

Stygian Circle I think is much better power IMO on the same base recharge for only 15.6 base end cost. It's healing scales based on the enemy rank, but relies of the enemies to be dead. I think if Dark Regeneration worked similar it would resolve pretty much all of Dark Armor's issues in one go.

 

[Videra]

To be quite frank, it's also all Dark Armor really has outside of capped res (mostly) across the board. Which you can only reliably achieve on tankers without sacrificing massive amounts of damage potential. That and Cloak of Darkness - which is pretty strong.

Dark Regen IS Dark Armor, in this case. Make cloak of fear a good power, give Dark the same level of status resist as, say, Rad - and then deal with the endurance issue. Then, you can make Dark Regen equivalent to, say, Rad Therapy.

Edit: Changed Post Structure.

Edited April 15 by Videra

[Indystruck]

It's basically the one cool tool it has. What else are you gonna do, occasionally mag 2 stun or fear something?

[SeraphimKensai]

10 minutes ago, Videra said:

Outside of OG, anything passed Cloak of Darkness on the power list is a dud.

I agree in this regard as Cloak of Fear although interesting from a conceptual standpoint it doesn't really seem to fit a resistance based armor set like Dark Armor as the tohitdebuff is fairly negligible.

 

Soul Transfer I think would work so much better if it could also be used be alive, but even then it could probably have the immobilize and stun toned down, the untouchable removed, and be given a -regen to target and a +absorb to the player.

[Indystruck]

14 minutes ago, Videra said:

give Dark the same level of status resist as, say, Rad 

 

 

a fucking CRUMB of KB protection so I'm not the only melee motherfucker bouncing like a doofus ass kid in a inflatable castle when doing Hami raids as every other melee armor set (besides fire armor i guess) just walks through it with 0 issue

[ScarySai]

High base values and dark regen is basically all dark armor has.

 

Videra echos my response: Dark regen is the soul of the set, and PH has made it clear they wouldn't reduce the end cost without essentially gutting the power.

 

Personally, after what she did to dark armor? I'd rather they leave it the hell alone, they've proven by now that the one and only thing they can do right with sets is overtune them. Anything short of that they drop the ball and make it worse.

 

Look what they did to fire armor, imagine if they reduced dark regen's end cost, nuked it's healing/recharge, and then gave dark armor a paltry one point of knock protection to balance it out. I'd scream.

Edited April 15 by ScarySai

[Videra]

3 minutes ago, Indystruck said:

 

 

a fucking CRUMB of KB protection so I'm not the only melee motherfucker bouncing like a doofus ass kid in a inflatable castle when doing Hami raids as every other melee armor set (besides fire armor i guess) just walks through it with 0 issue

 

Granted. Frankly, I'm of the mind that every armor set that doesn't should have at least 4kb Prot baseline. Preferably 8.

[ScarySai]

No KB protection for dark armor, because again, it's been asked, and the ultimatum was "No kb protection, or we nuke the best power in the set."

 

I can struggle and cram some kb protection into a dark armor build, nothing I can do could salvage a gimped dark regen.

[Indystruck]

in the same pass that they filled up damage holes for Invuln they shoulda given fire/dark KB prot/res, straight up

[macskull]

People will point to Rad and Bio as examples for why DA and Fire can be offense-oriented and not have any real holes, but I feel like that argument is counterproductive because I'm sure those two sets are on the "no fun allowed" short list. Instead, let's compare them against another offense-oriented set that has no real holes and was turned into a top-tier set by the HC powers devs - Stone Armor. Any argument for not giving Dark and Fire actual KB protection went right out the window with the Stone Armor overhaul.

[ScarySai]

9 minutes ago, Indystruck said:

in the same pass that they filled up damage holes for Invuln they shoulda given fire/dark KB prot/res, straight up

 

Considering the spreadsheet wizards we're dealing with, they probably look at the potential of dark regen's healing and consider it way more valuable than it actually is, considering how even unslotted, hitting 3-ish targets is more than enough to fill the health bar of a non-max hp brute/tank/scrapper twice over.

 

Like after 2k healing anything past that point is basically a flex. 

 

We're dealing with a set here that requires a lot of toggles and a really well made io build to really work, has a heal that requires a tohit check and a pissload of endurance, a t8 that doesn't work, and a self rez for a t9. Granted, the best rez in the game, but still.  The idea that dark armor has to sacrifice ANYTHING for basic needs of a modern set is laughable.

Edited April 16 by ScarySai

[Rudra]

14 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

I agree in this regard as Cloak of Fear although interesting from a conceptual standpoint it doesn't really seem to fit a resistance based armor set like Dark Armor as the tohitdebuff is fairly negligible.

Negligible? Cloak of Fear's -5% ToHit is only 0.63 weaker than Dark Melee's attacks and can affect up to 10 targets (in its 8 feet radius).

[Videra]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

Negligible? Cloak of Fear's -5% ToHit is only 0.63 weaker than Dark Melee's attacks and can affect up to 10 targets (in its 8 feet radius).

 

It also costs a fucktillion endurance and is tied to a mag 2 terrorize.

 

Cloak of Fear is beans.

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, Videra said:

 

It also costs a fucktillion endurance and is tied to a mag 2 terrorize.

 

Cloak of Fear is beans.

I agree the END cost is high, but the Mag 2 terrorize isn't bad. It just doesn't affect anything higher than a lieutenant. For reducing the amount of hate my Dark/Dark Scrapper takes though? It works well.

[ScarySai]

7 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Negligible? Cloak of Fear's -5% ToHit is only 0.63 weaker than Dark Melee's attacks and can affect up to 10 targets (in its 8 feet radius).

 

Yeah dude, all the dark armor mains that have skipped it for the last twenty years just don't get the true power of a -5% tohit debuff for .50 end/s on a set that already hard struggles with end.

 

Honestly, how is this relevant? At some point you gotta stop trying to look at the positives and admit that the turd is a turd. 

Edited April 16 by ScarySai

[A.I.D.A.]

Cloak of Fear will forever be worthless unless its pulse rate is reduced to equal Oppressive Gloom's pulse rate, so it could mag-stack the terrorize to affect more than just minions. As it stands, it's a hard skip. Just, a waste of a power pick. Could be taking literally anything else. At all.

 

And even then, it would still just be a worse version of Oppressive Gloom. Terrorize breaks on hit, Stun does not.

 

Edited April 16 by A.I.D.A.

[Videra]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

I agree the END cost is high, but the Mag 2 terrorize isn't bad. It just doesn't affect anything higher than a lieutenant. For reducing the amount of hate my Dark/Dark Scrapper takes though? It works well.

 

If you like Cloak of Fear, cool. It's a horrible power, though. A 5% ToHit debuff on a res set that cost .50 end/s? On a set that struggles with end? And also has no DDR for the measly defense it has?

It's not a good power, the debuff is of little value.

[Rudra]

3 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

 

Yeah dude, all the dark armor mains that have skipped it for the last ten years just don't get the true power of a -5% tohit debuff for .50 end/s on a set that already hard struggles with end.

 

Honestly, how is this relevant? At some point you gotta stop trying to look at the positives and admit that the turd is a turd. 

 

2 minutes ago, A.I.D.A. said:

Cloak of Fear will forever be worthless unless its pulse rate is reduced to equal Oppressive Gloom's pulse rate, so it could mag-stack the terrorize to affect more than just minions. As it stands, it's a hard skip. Just, a waste of a power pick. Could be taking literally anything else. At all.

I disagree. I have it on my Dark/Dark Scrapper and I leave it on most times. Yes, Dark Armor is END heavy and I wish it wasn't, but it does work for me. (Edit: Then again, I'm used to running the set from before Fitness became inherent.)

Edited April 16 by Rudra

[A.I.D.A.]

Just now, Rudra said:

 

I disagree. I have it on my Dark/Dark Scrapper and I leave it on most times. Yes, Dark Armor is END heavy and I wish it wasn't, but it does work for me.

 

That just means you have a bad build.

[Indystruck]

It costs more end than Focused Accuracy on a set that has a power that costs 33 end that you want to be casting fairly often.

 

source: i have several dark armor tanker/scrapper/stalkers

 

it mezzes the least problematic enemy type to immediately delete.

[ScarySai]

Just now, Rudra said:

I disagree. I have it on my Dark/Dark Scrapper and I leave it on most times. Yes, Dark Armor is END heavy and I wish it wasn't, but it does work for me.

I promise you, your scrapper with cloak of fear isn't doing a single thing my brute without OG or cloak of fear can't.

 

I don't understand why people defend terrible powers. I really don't. We both benefit from a buff.