how many powers is too many?

[Groundworm]

I'm leveling up a bio/axe tanker and I'm having trouble deciding which powers to skip. Currently, at level 30, I have all of the powers from bio and all of the powers from battle axe except taunt. Which powers can I afford to pass over? If I don't need all of those attacks from battle axe (which I suspect I don't), which ones are the least beneficial overall?

 

Thanks for the advice!

[hakurr]

i have a few Battle Axe characters and i always take Chop  this power is for the most part just to get set bonus i don't ever use it in my rotation unless i am exempted down then i add it in to my rotation. i always take Build Up after that my rotation is normally Axe Cyclone (this is the PBAOE and will draw the enemies in close to you) next is Pendulum (this is AOE with 7' radius) then i use Cleve (this is another AOE but in a 20' Arc) and i finish off with Swoop Single Target. 

 

Hope this helps you can change up what you use as your first power pic based on the types of enhancement sets it can take to make it suit what you need.  

 

also i always put a Force Feedback +Recharge in Axe Cyclone and it proc's i would say about 90% of the time

Edited April 29 by hakurr

[KC4800]

hmmm...I thought you needed just one punch. 😜

[Neiska]

9 hours ago, Groundworm said:

I'm leveling up a bio/axe tanker and I'm having trouble deciding which powers to skip. Currently, at level 30, I have all of the powers from bio and all of the powers from battle axe except taunt. Which powers can I afford to pass over? If I don't need all of those attacks from battle axe (which I suspect I don't), which ones are the least beneficial overall?

 

Thanks for the advice!

 

I can't really speak for axe as I never had one, but you shouldn't skip any powers in Bio because each power you have enhances the others, even if only passively. That's one of the downsides of Bio is you are pretty much locked into taking all of them. For Axe, I think it may depend on your attack chain. If you have excess attack powers you don't find yourself using often in your attack you can likely drop them. But also keep in mind, what powers are skippable and which are not may also depend on your Primary and Recharge levels too.

[Haijinx]

 

For a usual melee set

4 ST attacks

2 melee AOEs

 

Past that and all my slots end up used up.

 

With 6 you can just use purple sets for everything. 

 

A proc build would look different of course

[twozerofoxtrot]

Bio's one shortcoming is that it really needs all the tools in the kit box to work well. You can skip Parasitic Aura and still function, but you can also take it and one-slot it with any number of options¹ and it will serve you very well in those occasions where Carapace is down and you're getting chunked.

 

BA on the other hand.. Drop Beheader. That's worthless. Chop, Gash, and Swoop should do you. Work Cleave into your rotation, it's close enough to ST and has 40' Range so it's got some utility there. Axe Cyclone into Pendulum is your Body-blender Bread'n'Butter so don't skip those.

 

If you plan to actually tank for a team, pick up taunt and learn how to use it to shape your plays. Nothing screams lazy amateur like a tanker who relies on guantlet alone.

 

 

¹Including but not limited to a level 50 Healing IO, a Golgi Hami-O, or whatever the new Heal/Recharge D-Syncs are called. Parasitic Aura has a 1.5 Acc modifier so it needs absolutely no accuracy slotting on most builds using IO sets.

Edited April 29 by twozerofoxtrot

[ZemX]

1 hour ago, Neiska said:

but you shouldn't skip any powers in Bio because each power you have enhances the others

 

Adaptation is the only one that affects the others directly.  That said, there aren't really any stinkers in the whole set.  They're all pretty desirable.  If I had to skip one, I might skip the damage aura.  Wouldn't particularly want to even if I didn't care for the damage because it also does a bit of -dmg debuff.  But if I felt like my survivability was good and wanted room to take, say, an epic ranged AoE... I'd consider it.

[Neiska]

1 hour ago, ZemX said:

 

Adaptation is the only one that affects the others directly.  That said, there aren't really any stinkers in the whole set.  They're all pretty desirable.  If I had to skip one, I might skip the damage aura.  Wouldn't particularly want to even if I didn't care for the damage because it also does a bit of -dmg debuff.  But if I felt like my survivability was good and wanted room to take, say, an epic ranged AoE... I'd consider it.

 

I would say it also depends on if you have the Brute/Tanker/Scrapper version, the Sentinel Version, or the Stalker version. I have never tried the Sentinel or Stalker version of Bio Armor.

[mcdoogss]

I took all Bio powers, and in BA only skip Beheader and Taunt. I'd never recommend skipping parasitic, it's one of the better tier 9s, up every other mob, and in x8 spawns makes you borderline unkillable with massive regen.  If you only want to solo AV/GMs then I guess its not as great, but why Tanker in that case?

 

Some folks skip Gash but I don't know how you'd have a decent ST attack chain without it (and exemping would be pretty rough).  You'd really be relying on FF recharge procs, plus Gash is a good attack in its own right.  BIO/Axe is an awesome combo with great synergy imo but it's a tight build due to so many good powers.  Tanker (Bio Armor - Battle Axe).mbd

Edited April 29 by mcdoogss

[SeraphimKensai]

Definitely want all the bio powers. As far as Axe goes, my experience with it is mostly prior to the revamp, but if I had to maybe pick one between beheaded/chop. Otherwise you given that you get swoop/cleave, I could probably ditch gash as well.

 

I would take taunt, because you're a tank, and that -range debuff is fantastic.

 

That should leave you with 6 powers remaining to choose.

 

Hasten, Travel Power, Kick, Tough, Weave, Maneuvers.

 

That doesn't leave room for any epic/patron powers. You could forgo a travel power and use a travel power from the P2W vendor, which then gives you a 1 choice dip into an epic. Maybe Gloom?

[tidge]

Don't skip Taunt!  You can mitigate not having it while solo, but IMO a Tanker without Taunt should probably just be rerolled as a Scrapper. I don't like tanks that rely on aura as their means of grabbing aggro... even with Axe Cyclone in the toolbox.

 

I don't have a Bio Tanker, but I agree that you will benefit from having almost all of the powers from the primary. Luckily, Adaptation gets no slots, and a few others don't require many slots. I would probably skip/delay Genetic Contamination. I wouldn't skip Parasitic Aura, but I might not take it until much later in the build than when it is first available. It has a long inherent recharge time and I feel that you ought to be able to Tank most of the game's content without relying on a T9 power.

 

My /Battle Axe Tanker IIRC took:

 

Spoiler

Level 1:                 Chop    

 (A) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge: Level 50

 (*) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50

 (*) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50

 (*) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance: Level 50+5

 (*) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage (Negative): Level 50

 (*) Hecatomb - Damage: Level 50+5

 

Level 4:                 Gash     

 (A) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50

 (*) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Damage/RechargeTime: Level 50

 (*) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime: Level 50

 (*) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50

 (*) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50

 (*) Superior Gauntleted Fist - RechargeTime/+Absorb: Level 50

 

Level 16:              Taunt   

 (A) Mocking Beratement - Taunt

 (*) Mocking Beratement - Taunt/Recharge

 (*) Mocking Beratement - Taunt/Recharge/Range

 (*) Mocking Beratement - Accuracy/Recharge

 (*) Mocking Beratement - Taunt/Range

 (*) Mocking Beratement - Recharge

 

Level 20:              Pendulum          

 (A) Multi-Strike - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50+5

 (*) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage

 (*) Force Feedback - Chance of Global Recharge

 (*) Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage

 (*) Superior Might of the Tanker - Recharge/Chance for +Res(All): Level 50

 (*) Explosive Strike - Chance for Smashing Damage

 

Level 28:              Axe Cyclone      

 (A) Fury of the Gladiator - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Fury of the Gladiator - Chance for Res Debuff

 (*) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage

 (*) Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage

 (*) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage

 (*) Explosive Strike - Chance for Smashing Damage

 

Level 30:              Cleave 

 (A) Armageddon - Damage: Level 50+5

 (*) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Armageddon - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance: Level 50+5

 (*) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage

 

Level 32:              Build Up              

 (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up

 

 

A few comments about my Axe choices. My build is a Shield/BA. Shield plays differently than Bio, but I feel like each has similar powers that offer "offense" despite being a Tanker primary.

 

1) Yes, %proc. I don't often include the Force Feedback +Recharge (global), but on my build I had some longish recharge powers that I felt could benefit from a little more recharge. See comment by @mcdoogss above.

 

2) I delayed Build Up, and also opted to not add any recharge to it for this build... I needed the slot to get some more Toxic/Psi resists. I like to have Build Up available ASAP, but for my /BA tanker I found it to be less important than on other builds. I don't think Bio would benefit that much from it either. My Tanker thinking on Build Up is basically this: I want it to put my tanker in a position to one-two-shot a Paragon Protector that has gone Moment of Glory.... this means the build has to have massive ToHit without Build Up and significant high damage fast attacks. YMMV

 

3) Don't skip Taunt. It's a key early piece of the Tanker toolkit that remains useful across all content. There will be enemies that won't be moved by your attacks; there will be spawns that are widely spread out and won't be within a Tanker's AoE. I 6-slot Mocking Beratement on Tankers, I feel that the set bonuses are extremely synergistic for Tankers. If you are allergic to Taunt, you can get by without dedicating any extra slots to it beyond Threat/Recharge and no one will be any wiser about your choice. Teammates will know if you aren't taunting.

 

4) Battle Axe is a slow-ish set for attack chains. I did not put Hasten in my build; once I had set bonuses etc. the chain smoothed itself out without Hasten. I also added a few other tricks from pool powers to fill in gaps while leveling; those tricks are still valuable to me even with the level 50 build.

 

If you don't need more Toxic/Psi, drop the FF +Recharge piece from Pendulum and move the %Fire from Cleave into it. This frees up a slot to put more Recharge into Build Up... or wherever. Come to think of it... I may have done exactly this!

 

[Gobbledigook]

 

 5 is just right and 6+ too many.  That is how many fingers i have on one hand, the other hand is for steering. 🙂

[Zect]

From bio you need to take everything. Paragon in its dying days tried very hard to make sure that no power was skippable, and in the case of Bio, they succeeded.

 

From BA: the rule of thumb for a melee set is you take 3 ST attacks (typically the 3 highest DPA ones), as many aoes are you need/want, and your dps buff power (follow up etc.) There are sets that deviate significantly from this rule, but following it will always serve you well.

 

Taunt has always been a polarizing subject. You will meet some people who have very absolutist views on taunt, and their rationale is always along the lines that if you don't take taunt you should reroll scrapper. However, modern tanks are extremely efficient dps toons when built correctly, and there is nothing wrong with playing them as a dps. You do not need a tank (the MMO role, not the AT) for 99% of this easy ass game.

[Sovera]

On 4/29/2024 at 3:16 AM, Groundworm said:

I'm leveling up a bio/axe tanker and I'm having trouble deciding which powers to skip. Currently, at level 30, I have all of the powers from bio and all of the powers from battle axe except taunt. Which powers can I afford to pass over? If I don't need all of those attacks from battle axe (which I suspect I don't), which ones are the least beneficial overall?

 

Thanks for the advice!

 

Axe demands four powers to have a gapless attack chain. Or skip Cleave which immediately eases up on the recharge demands. But Cleave hits very hard despite the slow animation so it is a hard sell.

 

That said you don't need ALL powers from Axe. T1 and T2 ? One of the two can go.

 

Taunt is niche and good for niche content. If you're doing niche content then take it. If you're just leveling, be it solo or otherwise, or doing regular level 50 content then it's skippable and no one will notice not having it. Lets be honest that most things die in 5 seconds flat in a team and what's left can and will be punchvoked. Anything that can punchvoke back is sturdy enough to take the hits.

 

Certain powers from Bio can be pushed back like Inexhaustible that can be taken in the 30s if not more as DNA Siphon does the heavy lifting (slot a Theft of Essence proc in it).

[Duckbutler]

My BA scrapper skips the tier 1 and the provoke, since it's a scrapper and it's an inferior taunt.

 

The 3 ST attacks rule works with BA.  You can then use cleave as your 4th attack. Cleave is a funny power. It hits hard but because it's so slow the DPA is lower than Swoop/Gash/Chop. The DPA on cleave is higher than than the DPA on beheader. It's also technically the highest DPA AoE attack, however, it tends to hit as if it's single target on the scrapper. Getting even a second target is lucky. A tanker might see it differently between the improved AoE and proc builds.

 

Taunt is a solid choice for tanks and I always take it and do so early. The tanker role in general seems to be less about traditional tank and spank MMO mechanics (still useful, though) and more about herding and rounding up enemies. The range penalty it imposes coupled with the fact it's a ranged attack really helps with pulling mobs in closer. The lack of an endurance cost is also nice in the early levels when you lack the endurance management tools. That taunt makes things attack you instead of your team is almost tertiary since you also have gauntlet to punchvoke and damage/taunt auras in your primary.

[Lusiphur Malache]

Bio is one of my favorite armor sets.  I don't take everything, I usually leave off either DNA Siphon or Parasitic Aura.  I agree you have to take Taunt, even if you don't put any slots into it.  Have fun with Bio, 6 slot Ablative Carapace, and put it on auto.

[mcdoogss]

I dunno, i’d never skip either DNA nor PA on a Bio tank.  The former is a source of -regen (and a decent proc bomb if you into those kinda things), the latter is every-other-mob-immortality when soloing, enemy independent. I might skip PA on a scrapper though because the regeneration doesn’t have the same impact

Edited May 19 by mcdoogss

[PLVRIZR]

7 hours ago, mcdoogss said:

I dunno, i’d never skip either DNA nor PA on a Bio tank.  The former is a source of -regen (and a decent proc bomb if you into those kinda things), the latter is every-other-mob-immortality when soloing, enemy independent.

Agree 100%