Ninjitsu armor set suggestions

[KaizenSoze]

Two suggestions:

Port it to Tankers and Brutes

 

Allow Stalker to pick between Kuji-Sha, the heal, or Seishinteki Kyoyo, the +endurance power. They cannot have both. I strongly prefer Seishinteki Kyoyo or Kuji-Sha.

[Greycat]

The devs mentioned before not wanting to do the pick-a-power thing again, FWIW.

[Vanden]

15 minutes ago, Greycat said:

The devs mentioned before not wanting to do the pick-a-power thing again, FWIW.

 

Better just add the +End effects to Sha, then, that seems fair to me

[Rudra]

6 minutes ago, Vanden said:

 

Better just add the +End effects to Sha, then, that seems fair to me

Why should Stalkers get a heal + toxic resist + endurance power while Scrappers only get the heal + toxic resist? Yes, the Stalker set loses a power to get Hide, but they also get Hide.

[FupDup]

32 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Why should Stalkers get a heal + toxic resist + endurance power while Scrappers only get the heal + toxic resist? Yes, the Stalker set loses a power to get Hide, but they also get Hide.

On the flipside, Scrapper Nin gains perma KB protection, greater resists to all damage, and a stealth crit mechanic that can give it a damage advantage over its close competitor of SR. Stalker Nin doesn't get any kind of crit or damage bonus compared to SR (all Stalkers get hide crits), in fact it does less damage because of lacking the global recharge buff. 

 

If that's not enough, I think it would be fair to reduce the strength of the heal/end effect to compensate for both being present on a single button. My opinion though is that Stalker Nin shouldn't have Caltrops (that's what the +End button should be replacing) because its goes against their purpose. They're a melee class, and Caltrops causes enemies to drop everything and run away outside of melee range immediately, which is kind of annoying for a class that requires enemies to be in melee in order to fulfill its function. 

Edited June 16 by FupDup

[KaizenSoze]

23 minutes ago, FupDup said:

On the flipside, Scrapper Nin gains perma KB protection, greater resists to all damage, and a stealth crit mechanic that can give it a damage advantage over its close competitor of SR. Stalker Nin doesn't get any kind of crit or damage bonus compared to SR (all Stalkers get hide crits), in fact it does less damage because of lacking the global recharge buff. 

 

If that's not enough, I think it would be fair to reduce the strength of the heal/end effect to compensate for both being present on a single button. My opinion though is that Stalker Nin shouldn't have Caltrops (that's what the +End button should be replacing) because its goes against their purpose. They're a melee class, and Caltrops causes enemies to drop everything and run away outside of melee range immediately, which is kind of annoying for a class that requires enemies to be in melee in order to fulfill its function. 

 I consider the Scrapper version the best by far. Sentinel is the worst, crit becomes a +damage buff which using the same crit mechanics. The problem is on a capped damage power, it doesn't add much.

 

Now, if they tanker/Brute version traded Blinding power Caltrops. That would be interesting.

[megaericzero]

55 minutes ago, FupDup said:

My opinion though is that Stalker Nin shouldn't have Caltrops (that's what the +End button should be replacing) because its goes against their purpose. They're a melee class, and Caltrops causes enemies to drop everything and run away outside of melee range immediately, which is kind of annoying for a class that requires enemies to be in melee in order to fulfill its function. 

On the whole, I agree with Caltrops being problematic for a melee character. If I had to guess, the idea might've been that - given the game's AI - it would should give Stalkers an "I need breathing room" power because the mobs become largely concerned with fleeing from the prickly floor.

 

Minor tangent: had Stalker secondaries been designed differently from COV launch, I would've assumed they'd be more like Ninjitsu. That is to say, in addition to dropping their taunt aura for Hide, that their tier 7 and 8 powers would be more CC/utility instead of raw damage mitigation. So in place of Caltrops you'd have fire with a less-potent Bonfire, ice or elec with a sleep, energy with a stun, dark with click version(s) of Cloak of Fear / Oppressive Gloom, etc.

 

--

 

FWIW, Alchemistic and I have postulated a Tanker-Brute version of Ninjitsu here (Alch) and here (me).

[FupDup]

For the Brute/Tanker variant, a cool/fun idea for it might be to have an altered Smoke Bomb that stealths all of your nearby allies but not the user, on the grounds that you're trying to make yourself the center of attention/aggro. Have it replace Blinding Powder I guess?

[Greycat]

Interesting, but I could see it being rather frustrating for other teammates who don't want to be stealthed (especially if it happens to hit someone who's got a hostage/rescuee following them.) Plus, after all, brutes and tanks have taunt already...

[KaizenSoze]

2 hours ago, megaericzero said:

On the whole, I agree with Caltrops being problematic for a melee character. If I had to guess, the idea might've been that - given the game's AI - it would should give Stalkers an "I need breathing room" power because the mobs become largely concerned with fleeing from the prickly floor.

 

Minor tangent: had Stalker secondaries been designed differently from COV launch, I would've assumed they'd be more like Ninjitsu. That is to say, in addition to dropping their taunt aura for Hide, that their tier 7 and 8 powers would be more CC/utility instead of raw damage mitigation. So in place of Caltrops you'd have fire with a less-potent Bonfire, ice or elec with a sleep, energy with a stun, dark with click version(s) of Cloak of Fear / Oppressive Gloom, etc.

 

--

 

FWIW, Alchemistic and I have postulated a Tanker-Brute version of Ninjitsu here (Alch) and here (me).

My bad. Didn't see that one. Much better thought out.

[megaericzero]

1 hour ago, KaizenSoze said:

My bad. Didn't see that one. Much better thought out.

No, no; you're good. Don't be sorry. The discussion and flow of ideas is good.

[Alchemystic]

1 hour ago, KaizenSoze said:

My bad. Didn't see that one. Much better thought out.

 

Honestly it helps gauge interest in the topic if anything, more push is always good, and fresh perspectives are always welcome

[Uun]

23 hours ago, Rudra said:

Why should Stalkers get a heal + toxic resist + endurance power while Scrappers only get the heal + toxic resist? Yes, the Stalker set loses a power to get Hide, but they also get Hide.

Scrappers currently get both heal/toxic resist and +end powers. Stalkers lose the stealth power for Hide, +end power for Caltrops and kb protection for Smoke Flash. The stalker version definitely needs help.

 

The issue in porting Ninjitsu to tanks/brutes is that you have to drop a power to add Taunt plus you have to add a taunt aura. The logical power to drop for Taunt would be Blinding Powder. The taunt aura could be added to one of the armors (similar to Energy Aura). You probably have to lose the stealth crit with the taunt aura.

Edited June 17 by Uun
Brain Fart

[Rudra]

4 hours ago, Uun said:

Scrappers currently get both heal/toxic resist and +end powers. Stalkers lose the stealth power for Hide, +end power for Caltrops and kb protection for Smoke Flash.

I know this part. The part my question was aimed at is combining what are 2 different powers into 1 for Stalkers. If people want to have Caltrops replaced with the +END power, then they can make that suggestion. I will of course oppose that on the grounds that they are taking away a power that others use, but I am not one of them, so at least my opposition won't be as dogged as normal.

 

4 hours ago, Uun said:

The stalker version definitely needs help.

That is a matter of opinion, though I do admit that Scrappers with their added on version of Ninjitsu did get a better version. (Edit: My MA/Nin Stalker at level 50 with no incarnate stuff even started was clearing BAF spawns alone twice as fast as the rest of the team I left behind that were working together, and at much less risk back on Live. [Edit again: And they had incarnates with them. And I still solo cleared 4 of the crates before the team caught up to me.] Though I have yet to get that same character back to 50 here on HC.)

Edited June 17 by Rudra

[megaericzero]

5 hours ago, Uun said:

you have to drop a power to add Taunt plus you have to add a taunt aura

Taunt goes in melee sets, not armor.

[Alchemystic]

27 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

Taunt goes in melee sets, not armor.

 

On Tankers and Brutes, there is always a power that has a taunt aura. Sometimes it's tacked onto other powers, others its a new power completely.

 

The idea I dabbled with used the Sentinel version of Ninjitsu, but with Blinding Powder swapped out for a -ToHit/Taunt aura instead.

 

Edited June 17 by Alchemystic

[megaericzero]

5 minutes ago, Alchemystic said:

 

On Tankers and Brutes, there is always a power that has a taunt aura. Sometimes it's tacked onto other powers, others its a new power completely.

 

The idea I dabbled with used the Sentinel version of Ninjitsu, but with Blinding Powder swapped out for a -ToHit/Taunt aura instead.

 

Uun said "add Taunt plus you have to add taunt aura" then listed dropping Blinding Powder for Taunt but also adding a taunt aura to another power, which read to me as them thinking armor sets have both Taunt and a taunt aura. My mistake if I'm misreading their post.

[Alchemystic]

14 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

Uun said "add Taunt plus you have to add taunt aura" then listed dropping Blinding Powder for Taunt but also adding a taunt aura to another power, which read to me as them thinking armor sets have both Taunt and a taunt aura. My mistake if I'm misreading their post.

 

Ahah I get your meaning now, I think I interpreted them as one in the same, but you're correct Taunt is a melee requirement, Taunt Aura is an armor requirement.

[Riverdusk]

Combining two powers into one does have precedent, so it isn't an unrealistic request.  That would be Invulnerability.  Invuln Stalkers get environmental resistance which combines resist elements and resist energies into one.

 

Personally Bo Ryaku is the one I miss the most on the stalker Ninja armor set, more than the endurance power.  Having that 7.5% resistance to all is a good base to build on that gives breathing room for when your defense fails you.  The built in kb protection doesn't hurt either.

[Uun]

2 hours ago, megaericzero said:

Taunt goes in melee sets, not armor.

Sorry, brain fart.

[MsSmart]

Mmm

 

   I wish tankers and Brutes could have Ninjutsu, love the power set. As regarding to the Stalker, I wish it had both the heal and endurance abilities like the others, frankly, I see no reason for the stalker version to be any different than the scrapper as in power abilities available.

 

Hugs

 

Sue