Renewal of Light vs. Return to Battle

[Techwright]

From the S.T.A.R.T. vendors, two resurrection abilities to acquire, both similar in that they rez you with roughly half your hit points and endurance as well as providing temporary immunity and about 20 seconds of XP debt protection. Both are on a 1 hour recharge timer.  They differ in that:

 

• Renewal of Light blasts nearby opponents, knocking them down, giving you a chance to get away or regain control of the battle.
• Return to Battle activates a bunch of level 3 inspirations on your character for accuracy, damage, defense, damage reduction, and effects resistance.

 

I'm curious if

• any have come to the conclusion that one is the better choice over the other, and the reason(s) why?
• is that conclusion based on "scientific" testing, or gut feeling?
• if one is inferior to the other, what might you suggest for a better balance?

 

 

 

[Luminara]

17 minutes ago, Techwright said:

any have come to the conclusion that one is the better choice over the other, and the reason(s) why?

 

Your set bonuses/level shifts/temp powers aren't restored instantly when you rez (even auto powers have an activation interval and duration, so when they're disabled due to defeat, they can take 0.5-10s to turn back on), which means Renewal of Light only has base hit chance (75%) and comparatively unimpressive damage (even with all three pulses, it won't defeat minions).  Plus, it slows enemies, so they're actually forced to stay near you instead of giving you some breathing room if they aren't knocked away (that boss or EB with massive KB resist isn't really what you want to be still teabagging you after you rez).

 

Return to Battle's inspiration dump is more tactically sound and immediately useful.  Those inspirations make it a lot easier and faster to clean up the spawn and let you get your feet back under you.  You're protected from a lot of incoming damage after the Untouchable effect expires, and you're hitting harder and less likely to miss.  Return to Battle means you don't have to run away or worry about being put back down, you can just get back up and kick ass like nothing happened.

 

14 minutes ago, Techwright said:

is that conclusion based on "scientific" testing, or gut feeling?

 

Testing.  Different characters, but since everything's zeroed out on defeat and not reactivated immediately, essentially a level test platform.

 

16 minutes ago, Techwright said:

if one is inferior to the other, what might you suggest for a better balance?

 

If set bonuses, temporary powers and other effects which persist even when you're defeated were immediately applied to Renewal of Light, it'd be a better rez.  Removing the Slow would also bring it closer to parity.

[Ghost]

I always figured Renewal was more for support toons who may be situated away from the battle, while Return is for melee toons who usually still have enemies standing on their heads after death.

[Doomguide2005]

     I've found both annoying and have virtually given up using them.  I'm just as likely to survive 'waking' if I've use a small Awaken.   In fact I don't know if it's lag or an impossibly long unlucky streak but I feel like I'm dead again before the animation finishes never mind any supposed "untouchable" period.  Kind of pointless if I need to wait for all the foes to be dealt with first before I rez.

 

     This, as of the moment is all subjective.  But I now include the seconds on my timestamps and maybe I'll catch the rez in the act of failure.   

[kelika2]

Return to Battle is better.  The tier3s alone tops Light.

And Light just scatters enemies

[Yomo Kimyata]

Return to Battle is superior for my purposes for two reasons.  The first reason is that you can buy Light of Renewal from the Candy Keeper for 20 candy canes and 5k inf.  This lasts 8 days real time, and I believe it is equivalent to Renewal of Light, although I haven't spent three minutes checking this in City of Data (all hail Uberguy).

 

The second reason is a secret.

 

[Zombra]

I tried Renewal of Light and not only do you float up in a halo of holy light, you actually sprout angel wings for a moment as you do it.  Maybe fine for very certain characters buuuuuut not appropriate for most of mine.  I haven't seen the special effects of Return to Battle yet.

[High_Beam]

I am a Renewal of Light person in general because often, my corpse is being camped by the mob that was clearly overpowered, and cheating and possibly on Angel Dust and blowing them up and away is both functional and infinitely more satisfying.

[Elizabeth Ashlee]

Neither of them seems to work properly, just as @Doomguide2005 stated. I've tested both on Brainstorm and live multiple times the past 6 or so months and found them to never provide the effect of "Untouchable" listed. If others are around you may live, if you're the first to revive or solo you are instantly killed every single time without fail. They'll do everything besides provide the brief protection.

[Elizabeth Ashlee]

Return to Battle is likely the superior choice in nearly every situation, just be aware if there are more than a few enemies around and you're alone, you're instantly dead again, oh and you WILL get debt, it doesnt protect from that either if you suffer the instant kill on rez.

[Techwright]

On 6/21/2024 at 8:09 PM, Doomguide2005 said:

     I've found both annoying and have virtually given up using them.  I'm just as likely to survive 'waking' if I've use a small Awaken.   In fact I don't know if it's lag or an impossibly long unlucky streak but I feel like I'm dead again before the animation finishes never mind any supposed "untouchable" period.  Kind of pointless if I need to wait for all the foes to be dealt with first before I rez.

 

     This, as of the moment is all subjective.  But I now include the seconds on my timestamps and maybe I'll catch the rez in the act of failure.   

 

2 hours ago, Elizabeth Ashlee said:

Neither of them seems to work properly, just as @Doomguide2005 stated. I've tested both on Brainstorm and live multiple times the past 6 or so months and found them to never provide the effect of "Untouchable" listed. If others are around you may live, if you're the first to revive or solo you are instantly killed every single time without fail. They'll do everything besides provide the brief protection.

 

Does anyone know if this lack of promised "untouchable" has been reported as a bug at some point in the past?

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, Techwright said:

Does anyone know if this lack of promised "untouchable" has been reported as a bug at some point in the past?

The issue seems to be that you are rezzed, and then the Untouchable effect is applied, because it has no effect on a downed character -- so you have to be alive before it can be applied. And it has a non-zero (albeit small) activation time, so if you draw the attention of mobs by rezzing, a mob that does not otherwise have its attacks on cooldown can -- and if you're the only one standing at that point, will -- draw fire before the Untouchable activates. The fix would be to make Untouchable usable on a defeated target, and apply it first, before the rez, so that you rez as untouchable.

[Uun]

10 hours ago, Techwright said:

Does anyone know if this lack of promised "untouchable" has been reported as a bug at some point in the past?

I believe it has, and this issue exists with most (if not all) self-rezzes.

[Elizabeth Ashlee]

14 hours ago, srmalloy said:

The issue seems to be that you are rezzed, and then the Untouchable effect is applied, because it has no effect on a downed character -- so you have to be alive before it can be applied. And it has a non-zero (albeit small) activation time, so if you draw the attention of mobs by rezzing, a mob that does not otherwise have its attacks on cooldown can -- and if you're the only one standing at that point, will -- draw fire before the Untouchable activates. The fix would be to make Untouchable usable on a defeated target, and apply it first, before the rez, so that you rez as untouchable.

 

I was thinking the same thing, however I have noticed the inspirations are applied just fine in the combat log before any enemy attacks have been attempted, and the untouchable just never seems to occur. If you do manage to survive with team members around you can and will still be taking damage right away from enemies though allies can not heal/buff you.

[lemming]

1 hour ago, Elizabeth Ashlee said:

I was thinking the same thing, however I have noticed the inspirations are applied just fine in the combat log before any enemy attacks have been attempted, and the untouchable just never seems to occur. If you do manage to survive with team members around you can and will still be taking damage right away from enemies though allies can not heal/buff you.

I think it's similar to a Fake Nemesis putting up his shield.  If you hit them with a high DPS, they go thru the animation with a bubble starting, and then they die.  So they get the effect, but it's too late.

[kanga]

normally if i need to use these, I am instantly defeated before the renewal of light animation has even finished, Always use return to battle.