REQUEST: A Little More Storage for SG Bases

[BlackSpectre]

Well, I've done it... I've run out of storage space in my SG base.  Would it be possible to raise the storage item limit from 18 to 20? 

 

Just 2 more salvage storage racks would make a world of difference in my base! 

 

If that's not possible, how about doubling the amount of salvage a storage rack can contain, from 100 to 200?  This would solve my problem too, and free up 6 more storage racks if I ever needed them as an added bonus.

[Force Redux]

This 

/Signed

[Greycat]

Not sure if there are any technical limitations to it that might prevent it. There are (or were) limits to how much "stuff" can go into a base to begin with, and I believe there's some behind the scenes shenanigans with storage tracking, but honestly I don't recall the details at the moment.

 

I would say "if you're storing white salvage, probably don't, it's cheap enough to pick up at need." But other than that...

[UltraAlt]

5 hours ago, BlackSpectre said:

Well, I've done it... I've run out of storage space in my SG base.

 

Gratz!

 

Sound like time to make another SG base.

 

You can make a SG base per character.

Making a "storage only" base doesn't take any time.

Add a big room, dump the storage in.  You don't even need to decorate it if you don't want to (all my bases are themed and decked out to the limited level of my ability in base-crafting)

 

Trick is you can hold a supergroup base with a single character and use /invitealt to move characters around from one base to another one with that one character holding the base.

You can even hand the base off to a level 1 mule once a level 10+ has created the supergroup.

 

When I started playing on Homecoming I joined a friend's supergroup. The storage filled and then I reached the point that I felt that I needed to make another supergroup. I have ended up making 4 additional bases on the same server as my friend's sg base. They aren't all full, but they have a good deal of stuff squirreled away.

 

And then it came to the point, that I had made enough on the market, that it made more sense to give a little back to the community by selling my salvage dirt cheap and buying the salvage I need for above market price. I generally don't bother digging through storage bins for stuff (well, other than the Lords of Winter enhances) when I need an enhancement; I'll pay the price I expect others to pay for the enhancement (if that character isn't crafting them).

 

I have at least one base per server, and you can move characters across from server to server to move enhances and salvage around if that is really what you want to do. You just have to keep one character in each supergroup to to the /invitealt.

[Oubliette_Red]

8 hours ago, Greycat said:

Not sure if there are any technical limitations to it that might prevent it. There are (or were) limits to how much "stuff" can go into a base to begin with, and I believe there's some behind the scenes shenanigans with storage tracking, but honestly I don't recall the details at the moment.

 

I would say "if you're storing white salvage, probably don't, it's cheap enough to pick up at need." But other than that...

 

It's likely not changed, but back in the day every item in storage counted towards the limit on items you could have in your base. So not just objects used to build the base, but the storage racks and everything in them were included towards the max ceiling on what your base could hold.

[Rudra]

7 minutes ago, Oubliette_Red said:

 

It's likely not changed, but back in the day every item in storage counted towards the limit on items you could have in your base. So not just objects used to build the base, but the storage racks and everything in them were included towards the max ceiling on what your base could hold.

Yeah, pretty sure that is still the case. You can only have up to 18 storage items in your base (though I'd swear that limit was higher back on Live, just with a lower per room limit), but every room has its maximum number of objects you can put in it and the storage items are still selectable objects for the room.

 

Edit: Oh, I see what you are saying. The items in the storage containers. No, I don't think those counted to the room/base limits for objects, but yeah, pretty sure SG bases have/had a limit on those for other reasons/problems. (Edit again: I'd almost bet that the stored items in the base had their own assigned memory to track them, and that still takes up server space. I don't actually know though.)

 

Edited June 21 by Rudra

[lemming]

Yes, items have some odd accounting.   I think they tried to mess with the item limits and it turned out not to be good.   It's probably another thing held back by a poor underlying DB design.  I wouldn't mind a bit extra room and for chars to be able to hold 100 enhancements at a time.  (Would help respec times, and I could move stuff in a base easier at times.)

[Oklahoman]

8 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

You can make a SG base per character.

 

True, but any given character can only belong to 1 supergroup at a time. What you propose would work, but would require some gymnastics to move stuff around.

 

We probably aren't going to get multi-supergroup-capable characters anytime soon, I guess, but if base storage could have permissions for Coalition members that could maybe get around it. (Each of my characters with their own SG are in coalition with each other.) Personally, I'd love to have base storage have permissions for "Everyone", as well.

 

But it would also just be nice if the number of items that can be stored in each thing were increased. I wonder if that storage limit was an artificial limiter tied to days of prestige, etc.? Maybe there is a technical reason that was capped at 100.

[lemming]

1 minute ago, Oklahoman said:

True, but any given character can only belong to 1 supergroup at a time. What you propose would work, but would require some gymnastics to move stuff around.

Yea, I tend to have an alt account for moving stuff between SGs, but adding coalition permissions would be helpful.

[BlackSpectre]

11 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

Gratz!

 

Sound like time to make another SG base.

Great minds think alike... Yep, I've done this exactly as you describe with mule and everything, but it's a pain. Having all my salvage in one SG is so much easier. Totally a quality of life problem.

 

 

11 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

And then it came to the point, that I had made enough on the market, that it made more sense to give a little back to the community by selling my salvage dirt cheap and buying the salvage I need for above market price. I generally don't bother digging through storage bins for stuff (well, other than the Lords of Winter enhances) when I need an enhancement; I'll pay the price I expect others to pay for the enhancement (if that character isn't crafting them).

Exactly. Same. Once in a while, I or my SG mates need to craft an IO. I just want to make sure I have everything needed in the base for easy use, and right now I don't have enough storage for all the different types of Rare salvage.

[Doomguide2005]

11 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

You can even hand the base off to a level 1 mule once a level 10+ has created the supergroup.

In fact i believe your level 1 can BE the sg creator.  The level 10 requirement went the way of the dodo at some point

 

[BlackSpectre]

12 hours ago, Greycat said:

Not sure if there are any technical limitations to it that might prevent it. There are (or were) limits to how much "stuff" can go into a base to begin with, and I believe there's some behind the scenes shenanigans with storage tracking, but honestly I don't recall the details at the moment.

 

I would say "if you're storing white salvage, probably don't, it's cheap enough to pick up at need." But other than that...

GREAT suggestion, @Greycat!  In my SG we've made an actual Paragon Savings and Loan bank with tellers and everything. We have 8 storage racks for COMMON (white) salvage, 4 for UNCOMMON (yellow) salvage, and 1 for RARE (dark orange) salvage. Each rarity of salvage has its own safe deposit box room. Proportionally it works out almost exactly, but for it to work well we need 1 more storage rack for Rare salvage.  We have 5 enhancement storage bins, and there's really no way to get rid of one of those. Total = 18. 

 

You're right. When we first got to Homecoming we needed to Common salvage storage, but now we don't really need the Common storage anymore. It's easy enough to buy. My problem is that it would require an entire re-design of the bank inside my SG base if we were to get rid of the common salvage racks. It would be a lot easier just to add one more storage rack. However...

 

You're giving me some ideas. I might be able to get rid of only one wall of Common salvage storage racks... and that might look OK. Maybe. I'll ponder it a bit. That might be a solution, @Greycat! Thanks for the suggestion, and thank you to everyone else who chimed in! You guys are great!

 

Here's what one of the safe deposit rooms looks like in my base, just so you can see what I mean about re-designning...

 

 

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

14 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

You can even hand the base off to a level 1 mule once a level 10+ has created the supergroup.

In fact i believe your level 1 can BE the sg creator.  The level 10 requirement went the way of the dodo at some point

Yes, 2 of the SGs I made to make bases were founded by level 1 characters I made to make the SGs. You just have to make it to the Registrar's desk, which is dangerous red side. (Edit: And to be extra sure, I just threw together a random character and checked. Yes, there is no level requirement to make a SG.)

 

Edited June 21 by Rudra

[lemming]

4 hours ago, BlackSpectre said:

In my SG we've made an actual Paragon Savings and Loan bank with tellers and everything. We have 8 storage racks for COMMON (white) salvage, 4 for UNCOMMON (yellow) salvage, and 1 for RARE (dark orange) salvage.

Oooo, pretty.

 

I've standardized for salvage: Two Common, Two Uncommon. and three Rare.   Five of each type for Common & Uncommon in case while crafting you don't have enough, and those then get topped off often.  The numbers sometimes change if most salvage in the high range of levels.

 

A bunch of Enhancement tables though depends on which SG what they mostly have.  One SG seems to be stuffed with level 50 IOs that should probably just go away. 😄

[JasperStone]

20 hours ago, BlackSpectre said:

GREAT suggestion, @Greycat!  In my SG we've made an actual Paragon Savings and Loan bank with tellers and everything. We have 8 storage racks for COMMON (white) salvage, 4 for UNCOMMON (yellow) salvage, and 1 for RARE (dark orange) salvage. Each rarity of salvage has its own safe deposit box room. Proportionally it works out almost exactly, but for it to work well we need 1 more storage rack for Rare salvage.  We have 5 enhancement storage bins, and there's really no way to get rid of one of those. Total = 18. 

 

You're right. When we first got to Homecoming we needed to Common salvage storage, but now we don't really need the Common storage anymore. It's easy enough to buy. My problem is that it would require an entire re-design of the bank inside my SG base if we were to get rid of the common salvage racks. It would be a lot easier just to add one more storage rack. However...

 

You're giving me some ideas. I might be able to get rid of only one wall of Common salvage storage racks... and that might look OK. Maybe. I'll ponder it a bit. That might be a solution, @Greycat! Thanks for the suggestion, and thank you to everyone else who chimed in! You guys are great!

 

Here's what one of the safe deposit rooms looks like in my base, just so you can see what I mean about re-designning...

 

 

That is gorgeous

[Oubliette_Red]

On 6/21/2024 at 3:32 PM, BlackSpectre said:

GREAT suggestion, @Greycat!  In my SG we've made an actual Paragon Savings and Loan bank with tellers and everything. We have 8 storage racks for COMMON (white) salvage, 4 for UNCOMMON (yellow) salvage, and 1 for RARE (dark orange) salvage. Each rarity of salvage has its own safe deposit box room. Proportionally it works out almost exactly, but for it to work well we need 1 more storage rack for Rare salvage.  We have 5 enhancement storage bins, and there's really no way to get rid of one of those. Total = 18. 

 

You're right. When we first got to Homecoming we needed to Common salvage storage, but now we don't really need the Common storage anymore. It's easy enough to buy. My problem is that it would require an entire re-design of the bank inside my SG base if we were to get rid of the common salvage racks. It would be a lot easier just to add one more storage rack. However...

 

You're giving me some ideas. I might be able to get rid of only one wall of Common salvage storage racks... and that might look OK. Maybe. I'll ponder it a bit. That might be a solution, @Greycat! Thanks for the suggestion, and thank you to everyone else who chimed in! You guys are great!

 

Here's what one of the safe deposit rooms looks like in my base, just so you can see what I mean about re-designning...

 

 

I rarely keep more than a stack of 5-7 of any salvage on hand, for commons that only requires 4 salvage racks. You can likely cut down on the quantity, or as @Greycat suggested do away with storing commons at all and reclaim 5+ salvage racks.

[Yomo Kimyata]

On 6/21/2024 at 1:37 PM, Oklahoman said:

rue, but any given character can only belong to 1 supergroup at a time. What you propose would work, but would require some gymnastics to move stuff around.

 

I think that is the tradeoff.  Now I totally understand that the game today is far from what the founding programmers intended, and I get that players just want to store more stuff for themselves.  But what we need to keep in mind, and perish the thought, is that we need to put some sort of governor in place to keep people from exploiting.

 

Now, I (like @UltraAlt I believe) have ?dozens? of supergroups.  I generally set their storage at 1500 units.  If they increase individual SG storage to 2000 units, or 10,000 units, is that a good thing?  Originally the point of the /AH was to create a player-driven economy, but at this point it's degraded to waiting for people to sell inventory at low prices.

 

I think that the gymnastics, whether that be mental or just moving things from point A to point B, is one of the reasons that I have enough inf to cause harm.  Why make it easier for the everyman to cause harm?

[WanderingAries]

Back in the day they tried to tweak the limit for bases in general and apparently it's a database limitation or something in which EVERYTHING in a base counts towards the total items one can have. (AFAIK) That means everything you build, store, etc adds to the make / break number and if you hit it, then it risks crashing the base or something. IDK, it's something in that realm and quite often asked for, fix wise, but the answer is normally the same.

[UltraAlt]

On 6/21/2024 at 4:11 PM, BlackSpectre said:

Having all my salvage in one SG is so much easier. Totally a quality of life problem.

 

It does seem to be for you.

We will see how many other people have that issue.

As indicated, I don't have that issue. 

 

On 6/21/2024 at 4:11 PM, BlackSpectre said:

Exactly. Same. Once in a while, I or my SG mates need to craft an IO. I just want to make sure I have everything needed in the base for easy use, and right now I don't have enough storage for all the different types of Rare salvage.

 

The sg that my friend made has 3 bins for orange salvage, 2 for yellow, and 1 for special salvage. 

I checked the log. No salvage has gone in or come out of the salvage bins in the whole history list that goes back to September year before last.

 

Maybe you have a large supergroup with many players.

Maybe more salvage does go in-and-out of your sg base.

 

How much of that rare salvage is of a type that is likely to never be used?

How many of each type of rare salvage are you saving?

When was the last time that someone took more than say 5 of a single type of orange salvage?

 

These may seem to be picky questions, but they are about what storage space is really needed versus what is just stuff being squirreled away unnecessarily.
 

On 6/21/2024 at 4:23 PM, Doomguide2005 said:

In fact i believe your level 1 can BE the sg creator.  The level 10 requirement went the way of the dodo at some point

 

On 6/21/2024 at 6:53 PM, Rudra said:

Yes, 2 of the SGs I made to make bases were founded by level 1 characters I made to make the SGs. You just have to make it to the Registrar's desk, which is dangerous red side. (Edit: And to be extra sure, I just threw together a random character and checked. Yes, there is no level requirement to make a SG.)

 

The wiki still says 10, so I went with that.

Thanks for the info.

 

On 6/23/2024 at 8:14 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

Now, I (like @UltraAlt I believe) have ?dozens? of supergroups.

 

I actually only have 7 ... I think.

1 on Indominible, Reunions, and Everlasting (but only 1 on Everlasting because I haven't bothered making more - I should really make at least 2 or 3 more for theme consideration.)

2 on Excelsior (honestly, setup two themed groups with 10 characters each, but rarely game over there)

4 on Torchbearer.

 

Honestly, I only made 1 solely for storage in mind. I created one with crafting recipes only in mind (including like 5 themed characters).

That concept quickly fell through - more or less - due to my current enhancement crafting, selling, and buying practices - even in regard to the SG members in that SG.

 

On 6/23/2024 at 8:14 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

I think that the gymnastics, whether that be mental or just moving things from point A to point B, is one of the reasons that I have enough inf to cause harm.  Why make it easier for the everyman to cause harm?

 

At some point, the conversation has to come up to the Ebil Marketeers.

 

There are those that manipulate the market and make great wealth and don't give back to the community.

Though I never have given back to the community to the level that you have, I do give back in my own way through various methods.

 

Nonetheless, we are both market pvper's, supergroup proliferators, and community philanthropist in our own rights.

 

 

[tidge]

On 6/23/2024 at 8:14 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

I think that the gymnastics, whether that be mental or just moving things from point A to point B, is one of the reasons that I have enough inf to cause harm.  Why make it easier for the everyman to cause harm?

 

I'm in this mental headspace: If I had more storage space in my one SG base, I would simply hoard more stuff. I suspect it is probably fine with the limits we have now. I have a dim memory of how SG base storage got screwed up when the "base salvage" was eliminated on Live, so I am sensitive about database issues.

 

There are many ways to manage personal SG (and email, and auction house, etc.) storage. My own approach is that I keep 1 bin for super Inspirations, 4 bins for Enhancements, 1 bin for Catalysts/Aethers/Access Bypass/Miscellany, and the rest for salvage. If I need more space for enhancements, I usually just have characters hold them... I have a few characters with stacks of salvage stored in the AH because every once in a while people play stupid market games. Storing stuff in the AH on individual characters doesn't interfere with my using the market.

 

I could just buy whatever salvage I want when I need it, but I do a lot of random crafting/SG base buffs, so I like having salvage on hand in the base. My personal recipe for using base storage suits me fine, but I wouldn't expect it is an approach suitable for anyone else.

 

 

[Jacke]

On 6/21/2024 at 2:18 AM, BlackSpectre said:

Well, I've done it... I've run out of storage space in my SG base.  Would it be possible to raise the storage item limit from 18 to 20? 

 

Just 2 more salvage storage racks would make a world of difference in my base! 

 

If that's not possible, how about doubling the amount of salvage a storage rack can contain, from 100 to 200?  This would solve my problem too, and free up 6 more storage racks if I ever needed them as an added bonus.

 

It's 18 storage racks that can take 100 items each that rack can store.  And I suspect both numbers would be very hard to change for various reasons.  Each SG Base is a database entry that besides all the other items in the base stores 1800 each item references, date reference, and character references (last 2 in the log, which will have its own overhead) as well as the SG entry's overhead, depending on the implementation.  While structures in databases can be updated, it's a non-trivial transition that has to be done right by a few key devs who have a lot on their plate already.  As well as the increase in data storage.  For every SG Base in HC.

 

I'd consider it equivalent to transitioning Fitness from a Pool Powerset to 4 grouped Inherent Powers, but with much more storage increase for an SG Base change.

 

Like @tidge, I work to clear items out of the storage racks.  Turn them into Influence, much easier to store and control.

 

 

Edited June 25 by Jacke

[Frozen Burn]

Yes, I know everyone wants more storage.  But personally, I don't think we need it.  I think people horde too much - especially solo bases.  I have a ton of alts that I save enhs for too - but I don't need any more storage than what is already available.  Even our SG with a group of people using them don't really need the extra storage.  Just keep the essentials and market/vendor the rest to keep the in-game economy going. 

 

 

[Akisan]

On 6/21/2024 at 11:17 AM, Rudra said:

Yeah, pretty sure that is still the case. You can only have up to 18 storage items in your base (though I'd swear that limit was higher back on Live, just with a lower per room limit), but every room has its maximum number of objects you can put in it and the storage items are still selectable objects for the room.

 

(Mostly) unchanged from Live - each room could only have so many storage racks in it (1-3, depending on room?), but each base was still hard-capped at 18 total storage racks.  HC removed the restriction about how many storage racks could be in each room (as well as the restrictions for which rooms they could be in), and bumped the storage cap per salvage rack to 100 (from 30).  And yes, each item in storage counts against the 20,000 item cap.

 

I'm fine with storage limits as they are, but then, I have a smaller, mostly inactive SG and only use 13 storage racks (6 rare salvage, 5 enhancement, 2 inspiration). If my SG was larger/more active, I'd probably add several more enhancement and inspiration racks. (It's very convenient to be able to pop back to base to load up on super inspirations if a particular AV is giving me a hard time).

[MsSmart]

While speaking of storage, can we have recipe storage capability?

 

Hugs

 

Sue

[Techwright]

I'd appreciate it if they could somehow unlink enhancement storage from component storage.  Hypothetically, that could then allow 18 of each, though at a loss to total base piece count.

I was very surprised the day I discovered they worked from the same piece count maximum.

 

I have to ask: if it is a matter of server storage, would that same server storage be taxed, and even more so, if we made a super group per character and used all the storage bins?  Even so, last I read in the wiki, coalitions are limited to 11 supergroups, so if you have 20 characters (LOL, so low), you're going to have to make some decisions.