Make Temporary Pets Permanent

[AnvilHands]

Classes like the Arachnos Soldier should be allowed to keep their summoned pets up permanently just like Master Minds.

 

Having to dump max recharge enhancements into their power pool is not satisfying especially when most pets cannot be re-summoned immediately after they self-destruct. Even when slotting them with 99% recharge reduction the stronger temporary pets still have about a 35 second downtime while haste is up. A pet having a limited life span is not enjoyable to the player because it creates an unwanted sense of dread knowing that their pet will soon die to a ticking clock. It also adds an extra unnecessary layer of micro managing one’s powers without creating any fun or interesting gameplay mechanics.

 

Changing temporary pets to becoming permanent would not diminish the master mind’s utility as a class because these pets are typically weaker than MM pets, there is not a way to buff said pets like master minds can and most classes that can obtain temporary pets have no inherent way to heal them like MM can. At the very least lower the recharge time of when they can be re-summoned so that it falls in line with their 4 minute duration.

 

This would be a positive change that would increase player enjoyment without making the game unbalanced.

[Legree]

Having to dump max recharge enhancements into their power pool is not satisfying

 

It's an integral part of the game's design.  A lot of powers - especially the stronger ones, like pets for non-MMs - are balanced by something - be it a slow recharge or high end usage or whatever.  If you really want perma-pets or perma-hasten or perma-Dom or perma-anything that isn't designed to be perma then build and slot for it accordingly.

[AnvilHands]

As I stated in the following sentence, in most cases like for the Arachnos Soldier for example cannot have “perma-pets” even if they slot for maximum recharge reduction. They still have some downtime with said pets even while haste is running.

 

Coming from experience, these pets are not very strong to begin with so I would not say that this would create any unbalancing issues. Making them permanent would simply make these classes more fun to play. Correct me if I am wrong but pet based heroes are not exactly top tier builds.

[Coyote]

A pet having a limited life span is not enjoyable to the player because it creates an unwanted sense of dread knowing that their pet will soon die to a ticking clock. It also adds an extra unnecessary layer of micro managing one’s powers without creating any fun or interesting gameplay mechanics.

 

Characters suffer a sense of dread when powers are about to expire and they're not yet recharged?

Dominators who don't have perma-Dom say Hello.

So do Hasten users who don't have perma-Hasten.

So do almost all Tier-9 self-buffs from armor sets.

My Regen Stalker livers in dread of Instant Healing expiring before it recharges... oh, wait, it's not even possible to make that permanent. And the same for Moment of Glory.

 

Yes, a lot of powers are balanced around the concept of "not always available, due to not being recharged", and many of them are even impossible to make permanent. What is the reasoning why pet powers (from Epic Pools, not even from a Primary or Secondary set) should be available permanently, while we keep Tier 9 powers, Instant Healing, Regeneration/Recovery Aura, and so on, from being permanent?

 

Also, Epic Pool pets CAN be made permanent... and characters make an investment into making powers permanent when there is enough benefit (see perma-Dom, see Phantom Army). If there is such a huge benefit to having an Epic Pet available, and because of that we should make it permanent, then it follows by the same argument that Phantom Army should be made permanent.

[Coyote]

Coming from experience, these pets are not very strong to begin with so I would not say that this would create any unbalancing issues. Making them permanent would simply make these classes more fun to play. Correct me if I am wrong but pet based heroes are not exactly top tier builds.

 

Isn't a "Crabmind" build one of the highest DPS builds in the game? While also being able to cap Melee/Ranged Defenses with Mez protection and some armor.

[Adeon Hawkwood]

You can get the pets permanent for Spiders, you just need perma-hasten levels of recharge.

 

As for it not being powerful, it's incredibly powerful. The Spider pets were balanced with the assumption that they wouldn't be up 100% of the time (except for the spiderlings) and it shows. A perma-hasten Crab Spider with permanent pets is an incredibly powerful character. Now pet-based characters aren't the most popular but that's not because they are weak, a lot of people just don't like pet-based characters (as evidenced by the fact that Masterminds aren't super popular despite being very powerful).

 

The problem here is balancing for SOs versus IOs. A Crab Spider with permanent pets is incredibly powerful but it's also a high end IO build and there are plenty of other ATs that can achieve similar levels of performance with high-end IO builds. However giving a Crab Spider permanent pets with just SOs would make them a lot more powerful than most other characters with that level of slotting.

 

In another thread I described perma-pet Crab-spiders as having the firepower of a Blaster, the toughness of a Scrapper and pets of a Mastermind and I stand by that assertion. It's an incredibly powerful build and I don't think it's unreasonable for it to require a high end IO build to achieve it.

[AnvilHands]

When I was going through the character builder last night it did not seem possible to have permanent pets even by enhancing the recharge reduction but you seem to know how to do it. If there is way to achieve it in game through enhancements that’s one thing. But the core idea that was trying to get across is that the act of summoning ones pets over and over after they die of natural causes seems like an unnecessary hurdle the player must jump over constantly. This act of re-summoning pets every few minutes is not a satisfying gameplay mechanic which is true not just for the Arachnos Soldier but for other classes with temporary pets as well.

[Legree]

This act of re-summoning pets every few minutes is not a satisfying gameplay mechanic which is true not just for the Arachnos Soldier but for other classes with temporary pets as well.

 

The key word is temporary.  Regardless of what the Select Your Playstyle screen say the only true pet class in the game is the Mastermind.  That's a pet class, and the rest are classes with pet powers.  If you don't enjoy the mechanics - which again are there for balance and to keep the ATs interesting to play - then maybe play an AT where you do enjoy the mechanics?

 

 

[PaxArcana]

Permanent, persistent pets are the especial domain of Masterminds.

 

If you want pets that stick around until killed?  Play one.

[Adeon Hawkwood]

When I was going through the character builder last night it did not seem possible to have permanent pets even by enhancing the recharge reduction but you seem to know how to do it. If there is way to achieve it in game through enhancements that’s one thing.

As I said you need perma-hasten. So basically you use set bonuses to get to about 110% global recharge then add Hasten, and slot both Hasten and the Pets for 95% recharge. That gives you a total of 275% recharge (110% global, 70% from hasten, 95% from enhancements) which is sufficient ot get both pets ans hasten permanent.

 

But the core idea that was trying to get across is that the act of summoning ones pets over and over after they die of natural causes seems like an unnecessary hurdle the player must jump over constantly. This act of re-summoning pets every few minutes is not a satisfying gameplay mechanic which is true not just for the Arachnos Soldier but for other classes with temporary pets as well.

It's not really that big of a deal. Lots of characters have buffs or other powers that have to be refreshed every few minutes (ex Kinetics and Speed Boost) it's a part of the game. Back on live I just made sure I had the pets bound to some convenient keys so I could quickly resummon. The addition of the powexec_location command in I25 makes that even easier, now it's a single button press instead of having to press a button and then click the mouse.

[AnvilHands]

Cool thanks for the tip.

 

Masterminds aren’t the only class with permanent pets by the way, you forgot about controllers. It doesn’t hurt to try to think outside the box in an effort to modernize the game a bit. Sticking to decade old design decisions may not always benefit the player base.

[Coyote]

Cool thanks for the tip.

 

Masterminds aren’t the only class with permanent pets by the way, you forgot about controllers. It doesn’t hurt to try to think outside the box in an effort to modernize the game a bit. Sticking to decade old design decisions may not always benefit the player base.

 

Always remember one thing whenever you make a suggestion to IMPROVE a power or a powerset: The sets and ATs and powers have been undergoing balancing for years. Granted, this doesn't always mean that they're perfectly balanced, but it usually does mean that a major change in a power's statistics may need the power to have other statistics re-considered.

 

You want the pets to be permanent? Especially without having to resummon them? That's not an unreasonable suggestion, actually.

 

Where the problem comes from, is that since many builds with temporary pets play quite well and effectively, then increasing the pet up-time to 100% without a great investment in IO sets... will make these builds even more effective. So, in order to keep them balanced, something will have to be weakened in the power. For example, if the uptime of a pet power is increased from 75% to 100% (a 33% increase in the total duration of the pet), then:

1: the pet will make 33% more attacks before they disappear

2: the pet will be around 33% more of the time to pull aggro away from the character

3: the pet will take far less Endurance to maintain

 

So, most likely, the pet's damage (and perhaps their defenses) will have to be lowered by some number in order to keep the power's overall strength where it is currently. This is also not unreasonable.

 

But you do need to state that you're asking for a change in a power, where it lasts longer but does less damage, for example, rather than just asking for a pure buff to a power that is already considered quite strong. I can see how, for gameplay purposes, it is EASIER to not have to resummon... but we shouldn't just boost a power for gameplay reasons. If we change how it functions in a positive way, then we should change its statistics in a negative way, so that it ends up as strong as before.

 

The DPS of a pet power is great. The DPA of a pet power is great. The DPE of a pet power is great. It is hard to argue that they need boosting because they're WEAK, and therefore an argument that they need changing because they're INCONVENIENT needs to acknowledge that they don't deserve buffing.

[Judasace]

Cool thanks for the tip.

 

Masterminds aren’t the only class with permanent pets by the way, you forgot about controllers. It doesn’t hurt to try to think outside the box in an effort to modernize the game a bit. Sticking to decade old design decisions may not always benefit the player base.

 

If you want a modern game, go play any of the dozens of live service games on offer from various companies.

 

Some of us like our CoH the way it was intended...hence why it was brought back by players for free.

 

Yo DO realize there's not a pro dev team behind the servers, right? That they're not getting paid to sit around and do dev work on CoH 40+ hours a week, right? They may be great people and all but they have real lives and real jobs that pay their actual bills.

 

They brought a game that was released 15 years ago and shuttered 7 years ago back from the dead for people to play for free. There's no guarantee of anything getting changed at all, let alone the literally thousands of things that have already been suggested on this forum alone.

 

They may make some changes here  and there that they have a personal interest in. Other than that, they're not here to balance the game or make it palatable for a "modern player base". If they and a few thousand others hadn't loved the game and its decade old design decisions, they wouldn't have come back for it.

 

Yeah, you and every other person on this forum has something they want changed. You aren't going to get without beating lotto odds. If the game as is isn't something you can live with, then you're going to be disappointed.

[_NOPE_]

/JRanger