Something of an experience tonight... (spoilers for Mr. G)

[Ultimo]

You'll forgive me while I vent a little.

 

Tonight, my Mercs/Radiation Mastermind was doing the Mr. G arc.  At the end of it, you have to decide whether to betray him or not.  I asked about it in chat, but people were too busy making jokes to actually answer my questions, so I chose the betrayal option.

 

I went through to the vault and stole the money, but he was waiting to attack me when I came out.  The vault area is a tiny space, so when he did his massive damage AOE attack, it oneshotted all my mercs and left me with 1 health, and left me held (as if he needed even MORE of an advantage).  Of course, his next attack did that 1 damage.

 

So I respawned back at base and returned to the mission.  I went down the elevator into the vault, where he was standing RIGHT in front of the door.  He knocked me to 1 health as I was entering the room, and finished me off before I'd even finished animating the entrance into the room.  My mercs never even had a chance to appear.

 

He did this over and over and over and over and over.  There was literally NO way to even enter the room.  I sucked down purples.  I chowed down on oranges.  I tried putting on choking cloud (which he ignores, being an EB).  There was literally no way to get in the room, let alone FIGHT him when he's oneshotting my pets all at once.

 

I'm sorry, but this strikes me as BAD DESIGN.  It was literally impossible for me to fight back against this.  The damage was WAY over the top, doing hundreds of damage in a single attack (I have 588 health on this character).  In the end, someone else had to come in and do my mission for me.  What fun.  I mean seriously, WHAT FUN?

 

I've commented before about the excessive damage some enemies do.  I was told that it was group content, and my character wasn't supposed to be in melee, and all the usual rationalizations.

This was a solo mission, and he was standing at the only entrance into the room.

Bad design.

[Glacier Peak]

9 minutes ago, Ultimo said:

You'll forgive me while I vent a little.

 

Tonight, my Mercs/Radiation Mastermind was doing the Mr. G arc.  At the end of it, you have to decide whether to betray him or not.  I asked about it in chat, but people were too busy making jokes to actually answer my questions, so I chose the betrayal option.

 

I went through to the vault and stole the money, but he was waiting to attack me when I came out.  The vault area is a tiny space, so when he did his massive damage AOE attack, it oneshotted all my mercs and left me with 1 health, and left me held (as if he needed even MORE of an advantage).  Of course, his next attack did that 1 damage.

 

So I respawned back at base and returned to the mission.  I went down the elevator into the vault, where he was standing RIGHT in front of the door.  He knocked me to 1 health as I was entering the room, and finished me off before I'd even finished animating the entrance into the room.  My mercs never even had a chance to appear.

 

He did this over and over and over and over and over.  There was literally NO way to even enter the room.  I sucked down purples.  I chowed down on oranges.  I tried putting on choking cloud (which he ignores, being an EB).  There was literally no way to get in the room, let alone FIGHT him when he's oneshotting my pets all at once.

 

I'm sorry, but this strikes me as BAD DESIGN.  It was literally impossible for me to fight back against this.  The damage was WAY over the top, doing hundreds of damage in a single attack (I have 588 health on this character).  In the end, someone else had to come in and do my mission for me.  What fun.  I mean seriously, WHAT FUN?

 

I've commented before about the excessive damage some enemies do.  I was told that it was group content, and my character wasn't supposed to be in melee, and all the usual rationalizations.

This was a solo mission, and he was standing at the only entrance into the room.

Bad design.

What did you learn from your repeated failures? Anything worth sharing to the rest of the community?

[Without_Pause]

Well, you did betray him. 😄

 

I've ranted before how some missions done solo are built to fail. This is just more geared towards a MM to fail. 

[NotsoevilDM]

He is a tough dude. I struggled against him with my Brute and think I only beat him by turning down the difficulty to -1/*0 and munching inspirations.

 

Back on live, there were definitely missions (especially the 'Bring a few friends' ones) that were very difficult, if not impossible to solo for certain archetypes. I think on Homecoming things are a lot easier with people able to solo missions on +4/*8.

[Scarlet Shocker]

I don't know wht experience the OP has but it's important to reiterate that goldside missions are significantly more difficult than blue or red ones.

 

This arc (bear in mind I'm working from memory) is  one of the toughest so unsurprising that he is proving to be a cantankerous curmudgeonly bastard with a big stick.

 

If I get my arse handed to me repeatedly I tend to seek assistance or swap to a different character until I can get help. I find it demoralizing to meet repeated defeats and it can kill the game's enjoyment for me, so I would advise to try recruiting some help for this one rather than persevere against insuperable odds.

[NotsoevilDM]

17 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

If I get my arse handed to me repeatedly I tend to seek assistance or swap to a different character until I can get help. I find it demoralizing to meet repeated defeats and it can kill the game's enjoyment for me, so I would advise to try recruiting some help for this one rather than persevere against insuperable odds.

I did this with Defeat Lord Recluse mission. Went and did some other stuff, levelled up and came back and kicked his.

[Ghost]

5 hours ago, Ultimo said:

 

He did this over and over and over and over and over.  There was literally NO way to even enter the room.  I sucked down purples.  I chowed down on oranges.  I tried putting on choking cloud (which he ignores, being an EB).  There was literally no way to get in the room, let alone FIGHT him when he's oneshotting my pets all at once.

 

I'm sorry, but this strikes me as BAD DESIGN.  It was literally impossible for me to fight back against this.  The damage was WAY over the top, doing hundreds of damage in a single attack (I have 588 health on this character).  In the end, someone else had to come in and do my mission for me.  What fun.  I mean seriously, WHAT FUN?

 

 

I imagine this is what villains sit around and say after they’ve been steamrolled by a team of heroes.

[Herotu]

5 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

I've ranted before how some missions done solo [*snip*]

Indeed. The clue is in the acronym MMO.

[Scarlet Shocker]

2 minutes ago, Herotu said:

Indeed. The clue is in the acronym MMO.

slightly disingenuous given how difficult it can be to get a team even when the server load is relatively high.

[cranebump]

Calvin Scott. Mines everywhere. Nowhere. To. Run!

 

(sorry…the sentiment expressed here activated my PTSD):-)

[Uun]

2 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

I don't know wht experience the OP has but it's important to reiterate that goldside missions are significantly more difficult than blue or red ones.

This is a red side mission. (Mr. G is both a gold side and red side contact. You are introduced to him red side via the Inside Information tip mission.) That said, Mr. G's red side arc has quite a few tough missions. I usually have difficulty with the mission where you have to defeat the New Praetorians and the ones where you fight the Awakened. I don't recall if I've run his arc on a MM.

[Ukase]

1 hour ago, Herotu said:

Indeed. The clue is in the acronym MMO.

Don't get me started. 

Oops. Too late. 

When I bought this game, sometime around Christmas, 2003, I think. It was mid-issue 3, that much I know. Certainly before Issue 4. 

I was clueless. I didn't know what MMO meant. I knew what the acronym stood for, but I just thought it meant a lot of people played it - not that we all shared an instance and would be playing together. 

After having played this game countless hours, I now understand what Jack Emmert meant when he stated there was no real reason to play if you weren't going to team up. When you have teammates, you have more options. But - as mentioned previously above by someone else, that's not always an option. 

Some teammates don't communicate.

Some teammates communicate too much. 
Some teammates, like me, will try to find an opportunity to punish the rest of the team with putrid jokes, if they can even be called that. Snarky hates them. He's still mad at a couple of SG members for laughing at one of them. Armed with positive feedback, I told more putrid jokes. Now I won't stop. Poor Snarky. He doesn't like the jokes, but as an undead, he doesn't have the right to say they stink, at least. 

 

When I'm in a situation like the OP describes, I first load my inspiration tray - with large or super inspirations. Mainly lucks and robusts. A break-free if I don't have status protection. A few greens. And as many damages as I can hold. 
If Mr. G attacks me as I enter, before I have a chance to get set up. I'll hosp it back to my base and visit the base buff station and grab some invis, too. Maybe I can upgrade my stealth. 
I'll take every buff I have salvage to get. 
If I still can't get him - I will log off, and restart the mission and this time, not betray him and see if that goes any better. 

 

[jprewitt73]

8 hours ago, Ultimo said:

I asked about it in chat, but people were too busy making jokes to actually answer my questions, so I chose the betrayal option.

 

I have resigned myself to the fact that there are just some missions I won't be able to do on my own. In those rare moments, I do tend to ask for help if possible. If I'm running a solo Oro arc I tend to load up on Signature Summons and every P2W buff I can get my hands on. 

[ZacKing]

8 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

What did you learn from your repeated failures? Anything worth sharing to the rest of the community?

 

They did share their thought.

 

9 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Bad design.

 

I agree that un-avoidable, un-resistable, massive spike damage is bad design. 

[Apogee]

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

Don't get me started. 

Oops. Too late. 

When I bought this game, sometime around Christmas, 2003, I think. It was mid-issue 3, that much I know. Certainly before Issue 4. 

 

It was probably December 2004, between Issue 2 and 3.  The game wasn't out in 2003

 

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

After having played this game countless hours, I now understand what Jack Emmert meant when he stated there was no real reason to play if you weren't going to team up. When you have teammates, you have more options. But - as mentioned previously above by someone else, that's not always an option. 

 

I honestly find the game a lot more enjoyable solo.  If it was required to team I would stop playing.

[Ukase]

2 minutes ago, Apogee said:

If it was required to team I would stop playing.

I would play a lot less, that's for sure. 
But I've met some very interesting and well, "fun" people while playing. 

Snarky comes to mind. I mention him mainly because of the fun people, he's probably known more on the forums than the others. 

Unfortunately, a fair number of the other amusing people have gone on to other games. One player actually got a divorce and remarried and no longer plays any games anymore. Happy for them, sad for the rest of us. But, as some folks leave, other folks arrive. Just have to give them a chance to be silly. (or not, as the case may be) 

The thing about teaming is simply - if you have a good team, it's slightly easier to have fun. But, I define a good team as two or more players who can not only play somewhat better than mediocre and can crack a joke or two while they play. 

Unless it's a master run where defeats aren't allowed. Then, cracking jokes is okay, only if you don't screw up the badge. 
 

[Apogee]

5 minutes ago, Ukase said:

I would play a lot less, that's for sure. 
But I've met some very interesting and well, "fun" people while playing. 

Snarky comes to mind. I mention him mainly because of the fun people, he's probably known more on the forums than the others. 

Unfortunately, a fair number of the other amusing people have gone on to other games. One player actually got a divorce and remarried and no longer plays any games anymore. Happy for them, sad for the rest of us. But, as some folks leave, other folks arrive. Just have to give them a chance to be silly. (or not, as the case may be) 

The thing about teaming is simply - if you have a good team, it's slightly easier to have fun. But, I define a good team as two or more players who can not only play somewhat better than mediocre and can crack a joke or two while they play. 

Unless it's a master run where defeats aren't allowed. Then, cracking jokes is okay, only if you don't screw up the badge. 
 

 

I'm old so I go at a slower pace.  I did a few Hami raids years ago but that is about it.  While I appreciate Snarky's stories of his experiences in PUGs, the PUG life just isn't for me.

[Techwright]

10 hours ago, Ultimo said:

I'm sorry, but this strikes me as BAD DESIGN.  It was literally impossible for me to fight back against this. 

 

 

Not to distract from the Mr. G bad design discussion, but yeah, there are other bad designs.  My team encountered one last night that I foolishly thought had been adjusted at some point in the past by a development team, namedly BLINDED. 

 

We were running Posi 1 fighting the simulcroms. (And let me get this out, before someone comments: I don't believe Snarky was on the team.  At least, no character that suggested Snarky was behind it.  Sorry, Snark).  I've done this a host of times, good teams and bad, but this time we were hit by blinded.  No problem.  We naturally spread out to avoid damage to the full team.  Being somewhat squishy, I pulled back at distance too.  Over 3 minutes we held out and the single blind attack was still in place.  Yes, I know about yellows.  I didn't have any left at the time.  The team struggled well to overcome this, but eventually got mopped.  Second go around, I got a large yellow, and I'm guess a few teammates got some as well.  Again the blind, again the long period.  Used that big yellow crosshairs and what do you know, the blind remained, and I was not in target range for a second dose of it.  However, for some reason, I could occasionally see the opponents, and I guess others as well, as we eventually culled them all, though with additional losses to our team.

 

Blind, IMHO, is poor design, not because it, well, blinds, but because running for probably 4 minutes or more, it cripples.  I've got characters who can deal such things, and I cannot recall any situation where such an attack from me lasted more than a minute.

 

7 minutes ago, Apogee said:

 

I'm old so I go at a slower pace.  I did a few Hami raids years ago but that is about it.  While I appreciate Snarky's stories of his experiences in PUGs, the PUG life just isn't for me.

 

Obligatory:

[lemming]

5 hours ago, cranebump said:

Calvin Scott. Mines everywhere. Nowhere. To. Run!

 

(sorry…the sentiment expressed here activated my PTSD):-)

Not a coincidence that he's the flip side to the OP fight.     Both fights are terrible for the wrong characters.   Or not well built up.  First time fighting Calvin was awful and now I'll go in with a char that is equipped, and I still have a twinge of eek.

[Uun]

37 minutes ago, Techwright said:

Over 3 minutes we held out and the single blind attack was still in place. 

You didn't specify your team composition (the Simulacrum powers match your team's powersets), but there is no -perception power in the game that has a duration longer than 60s. Presumably the power was being reapplied. By reviewing your teammates powers, you should have been able to determine who had this power and which Simulacrum you all needed to focus on. Also, that foe should have been revealed and targetable once they attacked.

[Luminara]

26 minutes ago, Techwright said:

Blind, IMHO, is poor design, not because it, well, blinds, but because running for probably 4 minutes or more, it cripples.  I've got characters who can deal such things, and I cannot recall any situation where such an attack from me lasted more than a minute.

 

The AE version of TA>Flash Arrow is missing the Cancel on Damage flag.  The other -Perception debuffs (Smoke Canister, Smoke, Tac Arrow>Flash Arrow) are properly flagged.

 

But it's also limited to 60s, so you were definitely being hit with it repeatedly, or you had multiple TAs on your team.  If it were flagged correctly, it would've ended when you were hit.

 

File a bug report.  Maybe they can squeeze the fix in with the current stuff in beta.

[cranebump]

19 minutes ago, lemming said:

Not a coincidence that he's the flip side to the OP fight.     Both fights are terrible for the wrong characters.   Or not well built up.  First time fighting Calvin was awful and now I'll go in with a char that is equipped, and I still have a twinge of eek.

With my weaker toons, I can usually insp him to death. Provided I can avoid flying across the map. (BOOM!)

[ZemX]

Honestly, the CoD page on this guy doesn't look that impressive.  Is this not him?

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/entity.html?entity=genericvillains_mr_g

 

Whirling Sword is the PBAoE.  8ft radius.  Yeah, it's a decent chunk of damage but it's neither autohit nor unresistible.  How is this guy one-shotting you through a stack of insps before you can even exit the elevator?

 

Or is CoD missing the correct info on this guy?  Don't know when last I ran this and probably didn't betray him when I did, so I can't say I remember.

[Techwright]

5 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

But it's also limited to 60s, so you were definitely being hit with it repeatedly, or you had multiple TAs on your team. 

 

 

Is there any version of the blind ability that applies to the full team, rather than just the individual?  Because after the first hit I pulled far back from the fight, and I took no other damage, which would have implied an opponent near me.  I was, admittedly, in line of sight of the focal area of the fight.  A team hit, annoying as that would be, would at least explain why it dragged on so long when I was at a distance.

 

EDIT: I should clarify.  I didn't mean an AoE.  That appears to have been the first strike, but where one teammate takes the hit, and several are affected, similar to fire rings.  Though even fire rings doesn't target a character at distances from the rest of the group.

 

Edited July 16 by Techwright

[Luminara]

6 minutes ago, Techwright said:

Is there any version of the blind ability that applies to the full team, rather than just the individual?  Because after the first hit I pulled far back from the fight, and I took no other damage, which would have implied an opponent near me.  I was, admittedly, in line of sight of the focal area of the fight.  A team hit, annoying as that would be, would at least explain why it dragged on so long when I was at a distance.

 

EDIT: I should clarify.  I didn't mean an AoE.  That appears to have been the first strike, but where one teammate takes the hit, and several are affected, similar to fire rings.  Though even fire rings doesn't target a character at distances from the rest of the group.

 

All player-accessible -Perception debuffs are AoEs.  Seeker Drones has the smallest radius, 15', a couple are 25', most are 35'.  There are... well, let's see, Smoke, Smoke Grenade, Smoke Canister, Flash Arrow, Tac Arrow Flash Arrow, Seeker Drones, Blinding Powder... I think that's all of them, so 7 -Perception powers that the doppelgangers could use, dependent on team composition, all AoEs.

 

I've only done that TF once since I started playing on HC (soloed it with my Staff/Willpower brute), but as I recall, the fight takes place in the basement area where the origin offices are, and the doppelgangers spawn in the middle of the room, so unless you were hiding in one of the origin offices or went up the stairs and around the corner, you were probably within 35' of at least a couple of your teammates.  Any of the larger radius debuffs would've tagged you.

 

You didn't mention earlier that you took no damage, so it may not have been Flash Arrow (but the AE entry for TA Flash Arrow is still broken, as it's missing the Cancel on Damage flag (Posi 1 pulls from AE set info to create the doppelgangers, which is why that's relevant)).  I'm thinking that it had to be Smoke, Smoke Grenade or one of the Flash Arrows.  They all have short recharge times, long durations and wide radii.  If it was TA Flash Arrow, you were just fucked no matter what, because without that Cancel on Damage flag, it's pretty much guaranteed to wipe a team if they don't have a pile of +Perception or a shit-ton of AoE attacks that don't require a target (PBAoEs, location AoEs).  If it was any of the other three, the short recharge times would allow the doppelgangers to keep it on you even if the scripting was crap.  Smoke Canister is a location AoE, so even if you thought you were far enough away, you might not have been... but it also has a longer recharge time than duration, so it couldn't have kept you debuffed for 4 continuous minutes.  That, in my estimation, removes it from the list of potential culprits (unless you were teamed with two or more Arsenal Control characters).

 

Regardless, the easiest and quickest solution, for future reference, is to take damage (again, unless it's TA Flash Arrow).  Next time, move forward and try to get hit.

 

I see that you didn't file that bug report, so that's my thunder now.  Yoink, boyeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!