Devs Stance on PvP and Balance of the Game?

[Solarverse]

 

 

I think it best if we just both place each other on ignore.

 

 

[This was a good idea several posts ago -- GM_Fiddleback]

[GM Fiddleback]

Hello again.

 

I don't want to lock this thread. The on topic historical discussion is fine.

 

But I have removed posts that are off topic and which the posters have chosen to use to attack each other, rather than discuss the topic. If that persists, I will lock it and take any other measures deemed appropriate.

 

So please, stay on topic. Ignore those who offend you.

 

Thank you for your consideration.

[OEM61]

 

I can't be for sure on this part, but Arena was scrapped at the same time that having full power customization was scrapped. For example, fire sword circle, with blaster powers, combined with controller powers. If you watch some of those videos, they even used those powers together. Originally City of Heroes was supposed to let you combine any powers you wanted. That obviously was changed at some point, as was the idea to bring PvP in to the game. I am fairly certain that the Devs decided against PvP and stated it would not be a part of the game after it went live. I would have to do some digging to find it, if the post even still exists at all.

 

I very much remember the original full customization plan.  I might still have an old magazine article I saved somewhere that talked about this.  I remember a power called "stone hammer" being mentioned in the article.

 

I can't say that I don't think that the AT system was probably better, though.

CO's freeform has certainly created it's share of problems.

 

As far as movement power suppression, there may be no direct evidence linking it to PvP but the timing is too coincidental for me not to think that it was a part, and probably no small part.

 

Jousting in PvE was a thing from word go but little to nothing was done about it.

Jousting starts happening in PvP and the "fix" suddenly shows up.

 

Most likely, the statement was "would not be part of the game at launch (but would be in a later free update)".

 

Which is pretty standard for an "it's not ready for prime-time yet, but we know people want it and will add it when it's ready to go" approach to MMO development.

 

Could be, but I recall another statement Jack Emmert made regarding the game and a mistake the he thought that he had made.

 

That was something about the game being what the game is at launch and how much harder it was to sell people on things after the fact.

But he was talking about crafting if memory serves.

 

That there were people that wanted crafting but since there had been no crafting at launch that many of those players had moved on and it was harder to bring them back than it would have been to keep them if they had had crafting to begin with.

 

There may have been some mention of PvP, but it's been too long for me to be sure.

 

[Solarverse]

 

I can't be for sure on this part, but Arena was scrapped at the same time that having full power customization was scrapped. For example, fire sword circle, with blaster powers, combined with controller powers. If you watch some of those videos, they even used those powers together. Originally City of Heroes was supposed to let you combine any powers you wanted. That obviously was changed at some point, as was the idea to bring PvP in to the game. I am fairly certain that the Devs decided against PvP and stated it would not be a part of the game after it went live. I would have to do some digging to find it, if the post even still exists at all.

 

I very much remember the original full customization plan.  I might still have an old magazine article I saved somewhere that talked about this.  I remember a power called "stone hammer" being mentioned in the article.

 

I can't say that I don't think that the AT system was probably better, though.

CO's freeform has certainly created it's share of problems.

 

As far as movement power suppression, there may be no direct evidence linking it to PvP but the timing is too coincidental for me not to think that it was a part, and probably no small part.

 

Jousting in PvE was a thing from word go but little to nothing was done about it.

Jousting starts happening in PvP and the "fix" suddenly shows up.

 

Most likely, the statement was "would not be part of the game at launch (but would be in a later free update)".

 

Which is pretty standard for an "it's not ready for prime-time yet, but we know people want it and will add it when it's ready to go" approach to MMO development.

 

Could be, but I recall another statement Jack Emmert made regarding the game and a mistake the he thought that he had made.

 

That was something about the game being what the game is at launch and how much harder it was to sell people on things after the fact.

But he was talking about crafting if memory serves.

 

That there were people that wanted crafting but since there had been no crafting at launch that many of those players had moved on and it was harder to bring them back than it would have been to keep them if they had had crafting to begin with.

 

There may have been some mention of PvP, but it's been too long for me to be sure.

 

The thing that mainly sticks out in my mind regarding PvP, is the occasional player coming to the forums requesting it, and then watching the thread burn as players mentioned the Devs said this game will never be a PvP game. Players were pretty harsh about it, which is why it stands out so much in my mind. I mean, they were very unforgiving in their responses to the players who were asking for PvP.

 

Like you, I am also going off of some very old memory. I want to say I know exactly how it happened and be firm with it, because my memory does tell me how it played out, however, it is such old memory now, I can't say it with a straight face and swear by it. I do seem to recall the direct link to the Dev post about PvP that players would copy and paste in to their comments made toward players asking for PvP...but again, this is old memory.

[GM Tempest]

One thing I can say from the perspective of seeing how devs in other games have had to handle PvP, it's a massive investment of time and energy. Balancing stuff around PvE content is difficult enough, but doing the same for PvP is an order of magnitude more difficult. Mobs don't really complain too much if a power works a bit better against them than theirs do against the player, but two players going at it will generate double the amount of critique on their powersets and how they interact, not to mention you have to alter certain functionalities for usage in PvP only, which adds another layer of complexity.

 

Trying to balance all of that while also working on PvE is just...nightmarishly difficult.

[Solarverse]

One thing I can say from the perspective of seeing how devs in other games have had to handle PvP, it's a massive investment of time and energy. Balancing stuff around PvE content is difficult enough, but doing the same for PvP is an order of magnitude more difficult. Mobs don't really complain too much if a power works a bit better against them than theirs do against the player, but two players going at it will generate double the amount of critique on their powersets and how they interact, not to mention you have to alter certain functionalities for usage in PvP only, which adds another layer of complexity.

 

Trying to balance all of that while also working on PvE is just...nightmarishly difficult.

 

I can only well enough imagine. Just the way you have described it, casts a shadow of emotions of feeling overwhelmed, and I didn't even have to deal with it, lol. I have mentioned before that I felt like the Original Devs fibbed about certain changes in the game in regards to PvP and PvE, but I was also quick to add that I myself am no better and would have also stretched the truth in their situation in order to cull the mobs with pitchforks from going insane over the changes, lol. It's a situation where you know you can't make everyone happy, so you do your best to lighten the blow as much as possible.

 

And yes, mobs won't say a word, they take their beatings like real men, hahaha....but a player will find even a fraction of a difference in unbalance and exploit it and complain about it en masse all in the same melee round, haha.