Out Of Range

[Rishidian]

I have several characters with Sniper attacks.  I have noticed on most of them, and I would say the rest of them as well, I have issues with being Out of Range.  I usually slot a SO Range Enhancement fairly early on, and I keep them up to date.  When in a mission (cave, building, etc.), I started noticing that the Sniper power wouldn't trigger because the target would be out of range.  Other times, when it was further away (the victim appeared smaller), it would successfully trigger.  So I turned on Range Finder, and checked the range of the power.  To be clear, I would always have a clear line of site to the whole target without any intervening obstacles.

There would be times where 89 feet would be out of range, then 115 feet would not.  And other times where it would not trigger at about 95 feet, then without either of us moving, it would take the shot.  I have also noticed that non-sniper, ranged powers without range enhancements will sometimes fire, when the sniper attacks with superior range will not - due to being out of range. 

 

I can't tell if there may be some underlying circumstance that would be in play, like the range may be shortened in certain areas for whatever reason.  I just know that the range check sometimes fails for no reason.

 

Has anyone else noticed this?

[biostem]

I'd wager that there's a piece of terrain, that while you can see through it, is actually flagged as "solid", so as to break LoS...

[Psyonico]

If not the terrain thing, are you comparing quick and slow snipes? If I remember correctly, quick snipes have shorter range

[biostem]

12 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

If not the terrain thing, are you comparing quick and slow snipes? If I remember correctly, quick snipes have shorter range

And with how quick the game is to put you "in combat", when by all rights you shouldn't be, that could very well be it...

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Psyonico said:

If not the terrain thing, are you comparing quick and slow snipes? If I remember correctly, quick snipes have shorter range

 

Yes, they do, as well as do less damage. Part of why I'd *REALLY* like a "Disable quick snipe" IO.

[High_Beam]

Quick Snipe is a blessing and a curse.  Some of my toons have plenty in the attack chain where it would be great to disable QS.  Others it is an integral part of the attack chain and QS is a lifesaver.  I can deal with reduced range and damage but some of my toons cannot deal with NO damage.

[Ukase]

As mentioned - the problem is not terrain, but the fact that your character was in combat (or just finished the spawn of mobs in your path, as you set out for the next set of npcs) 
There will be a circle around this snipe the system shows you to let you know when your snipe is no longer a snipe but a regular ranged attack. 

It's yet another reason why ice is better than fire. Ice is not encumbered by such tawdry mechanics. (Just my opinion, not backed by any evidence) 

 

[Snarky]

As was pointed out “Fast Snipe” activates in combat.  This changes Snipe by lowering damage, lowering range, and having a normal cast.  if Fast Snipe is active there is a circle around Snipe power button

 

”Normal Snipe” has the very longe activation period, long range, and really big damage.  It is NOT usable “ in combat” (if you are attacked or have been attacking in the last couple seconds). 
 

it would be easy to complain about this.   Except this is the upgrade lol.  Back in the day (when we walked to school uphill both ways in the snow, on our hands). There was NO fast snipe.  The power was only useful out of combat. Then it was gone from your attack chain. And it is a GOOD part of a ranged DPS chain.  

[Scarlet Shocker]

33 minutes ago, Snarky said:

As was pointed out “Fast Snipe” activates in combat.  This changes Snipe by lowering damage, lowering range, and having a normal cast.  if Fast Snipe is active there is a circle around Snipe power button

 

”Normal Snipe” has the very longe activation period, long range, and really big damage.  It is NOT usable “ in combat” (if you are attacked or have been attacking in the last couple seconds). 
 

it would be easy to complain about this.   Except this is the upgrade lol.  Back in the day (when we walked to school uphill both ways in the snow, on our hands). There was NO fast snipe.  The power was only useful out of combat. Then it was gone from your attack chain. And it is a GOOD part of a ranged DPS chain.  

 

Bloody Luxury!

 

The original snipe was completely wank.

It was devastating in its power but it was single target and failed to kill much more than a Lt.

but if you didn't already have a tank aggroing the target, the whole mob would alpha strike you and that would usually mean a trip to the hospital and running back to the mission, with a boatload of debt.

 

Fast Snipe isn't exactly brilliant now but it is a shit-tonne better than it was, so unless you want to take that aggro (Sentinels maybe?) it works mostly now but does offer a nod to its legacy origins.

 

Back then, I quickly found that there were two powers from a blast set you could easily skip, the snipe and the T9, simply because of their lack of value

[Jacke]

Slow traditional Snipes usually have 150ft range (175ft for Psychic), big damage, and are interruptible.  Fast Snipes in combat have 80ft range (100ft for Psychic), lower damage that increases with extra ToHit (up to just under 22.2%) but still less than slow, but are immediate.  And both Slow and Fast Snipes give 10s of +50% Range enhancement.  So get your Snipe's cycle time down to under 10s and it's a really good Range enhancement (but probably not needed).  😺

 

 

Edited August 10 by Jacke

[tidge]

Fast Snipes get a bonus to damage  (up to +22% damage IIRC) for +ToHit; whereas Slow Snipes do not get that bonus. Most of my Blasters rely on the Fast Snipe as part of a regular attack chain, falling back on the slow Snipe only if circumstances are right. Snipes are a single-target attack, so only relying on the Slow version would be IMO limiting DPS after the character reaches a certain level.

[Greycat]

3 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

 

 

Back then, I quickly found that there were two powers from a blast set you could easily skip, the snipe and the T9, simply because of their lack of value

 

.... I read stuff like this and wonder if we were playing the same game.

[Scarlet Shocker]

22 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

.... I read stuff like this and wonder if we were playing the same game.

 

That's the beauty of it. There are many more ways to play the game than most think. I played what worked for me. You may have had a very different experience which is great. Doesn't mean either of us are wrong or even "more right than the other" it's just how we roll as individuals.

 

That's the wonder of this amazing environment that's still going strong after two decades!

[Riverdusk]

1 hour ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

That's the beauty of it. There are many more ways to play the game than most think. I played what worked for me. You may have had a very different experience which is great. Doesn't mean either of us are wrong or even "more right than the other" it's just how we roll as individuals.

 

That's the wonder of this amazing environment that's still going strong after two decades!

 

Yep.  And to be honest I remember a lot of people skipped the old nukes with the long recharge and crash, as well as the only slow and interruptible snipes.  Wasn't unusual at all from what I remember. 

[Ukase]

19 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

Back then, I quickly found that there were two powers from a blast set you could easily skip, the snipe and the T9, simply because of their lack of value

See, I saw it the other way around. My snipe was a 1-shot killer. And the nuke, the t-9 was a whole group killer. What's not to like about that? 

But, experiences and playstyles vary. 

[tidge]

There is quite a bit of mental-modelling in Homecoming that relies on half-formed memories of Live and/or "player guides" from (different eras of) Live. I can believe that the pre-crashless nukes may still be affecting certain players' thoughts. Just to pick something different but tangentially related to this topic: "hoverblasting" still gets a surprising (to me) amount of advocacy.

[Glacier Peak]

7 minutes ago, tidge said:

There is quite a bit of mental-modelling in Homecoming that relies on half-formed memories of Live and/or "player guides" from (different eras of) Live. I can believe that the pre-crashless nukes may still be affecting certain players' thoughts. Just to pick something different but tangentially related to this topic: "hoverblasting" still gets a surprising (to me) amount of advocacy.

This! In fact, this is also why I am enjoying Marine Affinity so much. It's breaking my mental-modeling and forcing me to try out a power, slot in in certain ways, use it in different circumstances, and find the best ways to maximize it's purpose. That is something I have really missed!

[Techwright]

On 8/9/2024 at 8:12 PM, Rishidian said:

  So I turned on Range Finder, and checked the range of the power. 

 

 

Where is this Range Finder of which you speak?  Upon seeing this, I immediately re-read all the Options and didn't see anything that stood out.

[Ironblade]

4 hours ago, Techwright said:

Where is this Range Finder of which you speak?  Upon seeing this, I immediately re-read all the Options and didn't see anything that stood out.

Menu

Options

Windows tab

Window section

last option - "Show Target Distance"

[Mistress Bloodwrath]

On 8/11/2024 at 6:49 AM, Ukase said:

See, I saw it the other way around. My snipe was a 1-shot killer. And the nuke, the t-9 was a whole group killer. What's not to like about that? 

But, experiences and playstyles vary. 

T-9 was always my "panic button."

[RCU7115]

T9 was always my 1st choice followed by an AOE to get rid of minions and Lts leaving only a boss or 2.

[Scarlet Shocker]

On 8/11/2024 at 3:06 PM, tidge said:

There is quite a bit of mental-modelling in Homecoming that relies on half-formed memories of Live and/or "player guides" from (different eras of) Live. I can believe that the pre-crashless nukes may still be affecting certain players' thoughts. Just to pick something different but tangentially related to this topic: "hoverblasting" still gets a surprising (to me) amount of advocacy.

 

I do actually remember picking up a lot of debt because my nuke was about as much use as a chocolate teapot and didn't kill everyone who could then turn round and kill me.

 

It quickly became apparent that I'd either have to wait until the mobs were all near death (which makes the nuke mostly pointless) or skip it. The latter was the most viable option.

 

I guess the OGDevs recognised that in reworking nukes

[Greycat]

4 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

 

I do actually remember picking up a lot of debt because my nuke was about as much use as a chocolate teapot and didn't kill everyone who could then turn round and kill me.

 

... I'd have to ask if you were on a defender or a corruptor then, come to think of it. My blasters? Yeah, no, it did a number en masse. Defenders? Those ... severely needed buffing and were fairly skippable.

[Doomguide2005]

16 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

... I'd have to ask if you were on a defender or a corruptor then, come to think of it. My blasters? Yeah, no, it did a number en masse. Defenders? Those ... severely needed buffing and were fairly skippable.

     Unless you were a GM (Green Machine).  A near or truly crashless nuke even on a Defender a thing of beauty while everyone else dealt with a crash.  Irradiate, Atomic Blast (survivors often held), followed by Irradiate or Cosmic Burst is very likely to end a spawn in those days.  Now it's more like Judgement, Nuke, mop up, just don't see GM teams very often any more. 

 

[Rishidian]

Thank you all for your responses!!  I feel honored that such greatness would deign to consider my rant.

 

I played all day Sunday and Monday.  I typically choose a character of the day.  The 2 I chose was and Energy Blaster and a Fire Blaster.  I had 2 instances with the Energy Blaster, and didn't see any with the fire.

 

In both instances, I was in a building with nothing (obvious) in between when I approached the targets - I was not just previously in combat.  They had their back to me and did not seem aware of my presence.  I targeted them, then lined up my shot, so it should have been a normal Sniper attack.  Neither of us was moving.  Range was about 100 ft.  I took my shot -> Target Out Of Range floated up before me.  3 seconds later, the shot fired with out my intervention, as if I stepped into range.  Again, neither of us moved.

 

I wish I had gotten pictures.