Thank you, Homecoming. It was fun.

[Ston]

This has been, without a doubt, my favorite game of all time. Since 2020, I've had an amazing time with this community in the game, Discord, and these forums. My main focus was always on identifying the balance between powersets and getting as much data as I could to breakdown their strengths and weaknesses. My "rankings" and "tier lists" were by no means perfect, but I hope they were able to help some players make decisions on what characters they wanted to invest in. I'm also very proud of some costume and character concepts I've shown off and still sometimes check the latest submissions, you guys are awesome and never cease to amaze me with them.

 

I am going to be stepping away from the game permanently. I can't thank this community enough for all of fun it has brought me the last few years. However, I haven't played in several months and haven't had any urge to come back. There is one particular thing that drove me away and I don't want to sugarcoat it: power development and balancing.

 

I appreciate all volunteer effort that goes into keeping this game playable and updated. However, I feel there is a growing gap between what most players want from power patches and what we end up with. There are many underperforming sets that, with a few small tweaks to their numbers, would be very fun to use. This was done (arguably to an extreme degree) with Battle Axe and Assault Rifle and now they are some of the most fun and popular sets in the game. I really hope the power dev team pursues those kinds of changes in the future, but it seems like nerfs and complicated mechanics are their preferred direction at the moment.

 

And that brings me to my reason for stepping away:

 

I've been a member of closed beta for some time and lately there have been many frustrating interactions with the power dev team on what changes are acceptable. The most recent round of proposed power changes really cemented by decision to not play anymore. There were insane changes to Bio Armor, Rad Armor, Regeneration, and Dark Armor that were very controversial and will probably never make it into the game. Even though I could respec all my characters that use those sets and build around the changes, I was very unhappy with the direction of the changes. Bio Armor would've been unrecognizable with the proposed changes. Even though the changes probably won't make it to live, it just makes me wonder what data is being used to make those decisions.

 

There have been many, many threads on Discord and these forums on what can be done to address the pain points of those powersets and none of those points were included in these proposed changes. It simply crushed the trust I have in the power development team's process of determining what is healthy for the game.

 

I really hope there is a more transparent process of adding power changes to the game in the future. This game has such an incredible foundation for what can be done in the future and I really hope the power development team seriously thinks about all the changes they add and whether or not they will add fun to the game. Embrace the lack of balance in the game and give the Battle Axe treatment to Broadsword, Kinetic Melee, Energy Blast, Archery, Kheldians, etc.

 

Thank you again to everyone who made all these years of fun possible and I wish nothing but the best for this community going forward. Thank you for all the hours spent killing pylons, running tradpoor missions, PvPing, creating costumes, role playing, theorycrafting in mids, and just joining random teams for missions, task forces, events, etc. It was truly an experience unlike any other game could produce. 

 

 

[Videra]

Ston, without a doubt, you have been one of the finest members of our community. And you have, much more eloquently than I ever could, explained the very same reasons I haven't logged in during the last several months. Thank you for all of the work you've done - your data-gathering was part of what made me feel more passionate for the game before it both took a direction we both dislike.

Salute. And take care.

Edited August 28 by Videra

[ScarySai]

 

 

The truly frustrating part, is that every single controversial issue has been very simple to solve, but they refuse to take the routes everyone suggests to them.

 

Its like they are drawn to the worst possible solution to a given problem, it's asinine.

Edited August 28 by ScarySai

[Spaghetti Betty]

We'll miss you! I am no longer a part of the Closed Beta group since I got booted out way when the extra validation was added (I'm lazy), but I have heard rumblings of the incoming Armor passes. I'm a bit weary, since Rad and Regen are two of my favorite armor sets! If a revamp were to take them in a direction I dislike, I'd lose a lot of fun characters!

 

The changes given to Energy Melee, Assault Rifle, and Battle Axe are some really high notes about what the team is capable of doing to freshen up old sets. Nothing was taken away from them as far as core gameplay goes, and I really hope that mentality continues.

 

On the other hand, most of the newer sets introduced have felt like minor flops (YMMV on this). I hardly ever see Symphony Control. I do have a couple of teammates that like Storm Blast, so I guess that's cool. And I do like breaking out Patch God (Arsenal/TA) for laughs, but it is by no means a great performer. (Oh, and let's not forget Wet) I'm speculating that this could come from a fear of making the next Top 2 set, and to that I say, have no fear!

 

It's going to be pain parsing my own data to shove in other's faces, but I do hope you find something else that you can pour your time into and be happy with! You deserve it!

 

Can I have your stuff?

[AmrasNotHere]

Thanks for all of your contributions, HC doesn't seem to understand the impact on the community when major community members leave.

 

Hopefully one day they figure out that their current direction with powers and balancing is actually lowering the quality of the game. I'm sure this isn't the intent, but proposed changes on the balance side has effectively reduced the amount of players that are willing to participate in the circus known as Gold Standard. They seem to really hit the mark with good changes on accident, and then reel back saying they're over tuned. I especially cringe when they start proposing nerfs to sets that perform well (not over perform) in the name of preventing power creep. 

Perhaps its time to stop doubling down on ego, and instead focus on trying to keep the game as fun as possible so it survives as long as possible.

 

I hope we see you again some day (maybe if we ever get a solid build importer on beta servers lol). 

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

I'm always sorry to read any goodbye threads.  They were prohibited on the retail forums, but I don't think we have that rule.

 

I'm especially sad to read goodbyes from players that have made huge contributions to the community.  Ston is one of them.

 

So hasta la vista, Ston.  I hope to see you again.

 

To those of you that can't help but pick fights: stop.  B.E.T.E.O

 

To those of you who had posts hidden but didn't think they said anything actionable, remember that quoting a hidden post will get you hidden too.

 

Second edit: Let's not talk about what was or wasn't being tested.  Ston's original post is just at the line, if not over.  Please stop talking about test and poking each other.

 

Edited August 28 by GM_GooglyMoogly

[Videra]

Remember everyone; Be Excellent To Each Other!

[Vanden]

3 hours ago, Ston said:

I've been a member of closed beta for some time and lately there have been many frustrating interactions with the power dev team on what changes are acceptable. The most recent round of proposed power changes really cemented by decision to not play anymore. There were insane changes to Bio Armor, Rad Armor, Regeneration, and Dark Armor that were very controversial and will probably never make it into the game.

 

So these unpopular changes were introduced, tested, and not implemented... and that means you don't trust the powers devs any more?

[arcane]

9 minutes ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

To those of you who had posts hidden but didn't think they said anything actionable, remember that quoting a hidden post will get you hidden too.

I didn’t quote anything tho

[MoonSheep]

3 hours ago, Ston said:

However, I feel there is a growing gap between what most players want from power patches and what we end up with. There are many underperforming sets that, with a few small tweaks to their numbers, would be very fun to use. This was done (arguably to an extreme degree) with Battle Axe and Assault Rifle and now they are some of the most fun and popular sets in the game. I really hope the power dev team pursues those kinds of changes in the future, but it seems like nerfs and complicated mechanics are their preferred direction at the moment.

 

QFT

 

there’s so many powers which could use a helpful tweak, for some reason this takes years and years and instead, forgettable new powersets with janky combos are introduced. 

 

on a positive note, thank you for your melee comparison you did a few years ago. it’s a great help to put some data against the melee powersets and show what’s most effective in the real world

 

 

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

3 minutes ago, arcane said:

I didn’t quote anything tho

 

You started it!  Shhhh . . . 

[AmrasNotHere]

5 minutes ago, Vanden said:

 

So these unpopular changes were introduced, tested, and not implemented... and that means you don't trust the powers devs any more?

I believe it was because of the proposed changes, and the team did mention those changes will return.

The responses from the team are what tend to stir up a reaction like stons.

On a totally separate topic, I'm about to roll a Thug/Pain named BETEO now as a tribute...... @GM_GooglyMoogly with your permission.... lol

[Vanden]

7 minutes ago, AmrasNotHere said:

I believe it was because of the proposed changes, and the team did mention those changes will return.

 

They've actually said the opposite, that the changes were scrapped and they went back to the drawing board.

[Ston]

3 minutes ago, Vanden said:

 

So these unpopular changes were introduced, tested, and not implemented... and that means you don't trust the powers devs any more?

 

I want to emphasize that this is my opinion. I don't want to criticize the devs too much because of how much I appreciate any efforts in keeping this game alive. And there are many power changes that I was very happy with.

 

While I wasn't happy with some changes, I know they're just experimental. However, I'm most unhappy with the development direction and philosophy. I never saw data that suggested some powers needed to be nerfed or that some powers couldn't be buffed. And this was something myself and others asked for on several occasions when our concerns weren't addressed.

 

I think this is somewhere the power devs can make a very meaningful improvement. If powerset X needs to be nerfed because power Y is overperforming, show us specifically why that's the case with metrics we can test. Instead, we were asked to justify our concerns with our own data and testing methods. I hope this is something that changes in the future but I won't be there to see it because I'm just exhausted with testing stuff only to end up with many power changes that no one asked for.

[macskull]

8 minutes ago, Vanden said:

 

They've actually said the opposite, that the changes were scrapped and they went back to the drawing board.

There has been some pretty wacky stuff that has made it into beta testing before ultimately getting reverted or overhauled - and I don’t mean “funny” wacky, I mean “I want what they’re smoking” wacky. Even if something gets put in as an experimental change and later gets pulled, it still ultimately made it in front of testers because someone thought it was a good idea, and it’s a perfectly reasonable response for a tester to say “the fact that they even thought this might be something players would go for is troubling.”

 

We also know that if there hadn’t been the time constraints associated with getting the most recent update out the door we would probably still be in closed beta and some of the stuff we are discussing would have ultimately made it into the game.

[Troo]

4 hours ago, Ston said:

I've been a member of closed beta for some time and lately there have been many frustrating interactions with the power dev team on what changes are acceptable. The most recent round of proposed power changes really cemented by decision to not play anymore. There were insane changes to Bio Armor, Rad Armor, Regeneration, and Dark Armor that were very controversial and will probably never make it into the game. Even though I could respec all my characters that use those sets and build around the changes, I was very unhappy with the direction of the changes. Bio Armor would've been unrecognizable with the proposed changes. Even though the changes probably won't make it to live, it just makes me wonder what data is being used to make those decisions.

 

There have been many, many threads on Discord and these forums on what can be done to address the pain points of those powersets and none of those points were included in these proposed changes. It simply crushed the trust I have in the power development team's process of determining what is healthy for the game.

 

..and there's a peek behind the curtain.

 

While it is my opinion that concerns are heard by the HC team, it is sometimes strange who is listened to very early in development. I do have frustration with realized and potential sweeping changes to existing sets that people actually play.

 

It seems like a strange choice to alienate players over existing sets when new sets could simply be added.

When adding a new set, more adventuresome development can occur. Simple straight forward sets could remain and fancy new sets with different functionality, combo mechanics, etc could be added. Not everything has to be same same.

 

It is also impossible to please everyone. (doing our best, communicating, and trying not to wreck what exists can be a safe path for many development projects)

 

Good luck to you @Ston

Edited August 28 by Troo

[Nightmarer]

Although I haven't met you ingame, sorry to see a meaningful member of the community leave, especially for such reason. I'm not in the closed beta but heard rumours about nerfing proces to oblivion in an issue named "Aprocalypse" which I did not believe at the time but now this thread made me think twice about it.

 

Also important noticing how some of the new sets are not ver successful, the rehash of Illusion for Dominators I personally find particularly offensive and regarding Symphony Control, I honestly thought it was clear by now that we want LESS cones in the control sets, not more. Looks like "I like cones, we should put more cones, let's put them all in one set" and later on "I like floor patches, let's put more floor patches, let's put them all in one set"... one could think that it is a knee jerk reaction "You don't like our new sets? we're going to make everything else so bad they'll end up looking good to you".

 

Ah well, sorry to see you go man. 

[FupDup]

2 minutes ago, Nightmarer said:

Although I haven't met you ingame, sorry to see a meaningful member of the community leave, especially for such reason. I'm not in the closed beta but heard rumours about nerfing proces to oblivion in an issue named "Aprocalypse" which I did not believe at the time but now this thread made me think twice about it.

The so-called "Aprocalypse" thing has still not been elaborated upon by the devs much, and has never been put up for testing yet, but from what I gather it would be more of a lateral move than a nerf kind of deal, with even some shitty procs getting buffed at the same time. And it keeps getting pushed back so I wouldn't lose sleep over it. 

 

Every other complaint is valid though. The dev philosophy is pretty borked at times. 

[Bionic_Flea]

While I can understand the frustration, because I get frustrated too sometimes, I don't think it's fair to paint the devs or even power devs with such a broad brush.  For everything that you hate as a player, I guarantee you that someone else likes it.  They are trying to design a game for varied playstyles.  They may not always get it right, but they also aren't rubbing their hands like an evil villain plotting what to do to make Nightmarer (or whoever) mad.

 

Take care, Ston.  Sorry to see you go and I hope you come back.  I would ask for your stuff, but I see Spaghetti Betty has dibs.

 

May all your spreadsheets be neat and tidy!

[PeregrineFalcon]

"Ston, after a time you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting."

 

Peace and long life.

[Bionic_Flea]

3 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

"Ston, after a time you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting."

 

Live long and prosper, Stonn.

 

[Laucianna]

I do not believe we ever met in game, and we rarely spoke outside of it, but I always respected you and the work you put into the game. You were an inspiration to many and although it is sad to see you go, it was great to have you here when we had you ❤️

 

 - Lauci x

[Frosticus]

Sorry to see you leave. 

I agree some proposed changes are less than half baked. I straight up abandoned my sav/rad stalker that dinged 50 the day those proposed changes popped up. They were very offputting. Very gun shy now.

 

I think new sets have been fine. You are never going to please everyone and the feedback threads get bombarded by very narrowly focused individuals. Some of the new sets have struggled with limited appeal because they support limited concepts. 

 

But based on beta feedback I'm honestly convinced that if the devs introduced plant control today they'd get lambasted by knee-jerk reactions.

[Ukase]

Interesting. The 2nd player to make a farewell speech in as many weeks. 

I don't remember it clearly. I want to say it was page 4 or maybe page 5 where some crazy changes were introduced on beta. Many went nuts. A lot of us griped, complained and whined and every negative reaction you might think of in-between. And then others came in and picked on those players for having different opinions, and in some cases, not expressing themselves with enough intellectual clarity to fully detail what was wrong with the proposed changes.  And a fair number of people quit - without goodbyes here on the forums. Just logged off, and haven't been seen since. I guess folks leaving are the risks we have to take to see change. Myself - I don't need change. We could roll back to issue 3 when I bought the game, and it would be good enough for me. 

I have never been part of Closed Beta. I have tested a small amount (relative to some of you who have spent many, many hours on Brainstorm). But, people talk. Word gets around. You hear things. I notice community reps that "retire". Some testers feel unheard. Some testers think there's a popularity contest. I have no idea. 
Nobody is going to like everyone. Nobody is going to get along with everyone. And there are some folks with the coding knowledge that are going to get their way - because they're the ones that know how to code. 

It does make sense to me, in a fashion, why some would quit the game. But...if anyone is thinking about quitting because they think it will get those folks "in power" to change direction, I think you shouldn't hold your breath. The only thing I can think of that will alter the course is a cohesive, logical argument about why something might be a bad idea. 

As is evidenced by this writing, cohesion and logic are not my strong suits. Hopefully, some of you more logical folks will find the right words, if needed, to persuade them one way or the other. I'm so out of the loop, I am not even clear on which way the ship is going. But, I'm not sea-sick yet! 

[Glacier Peak]

Noticing a trend lately of players leaving with threads like these. At the end of the day, if it isn't fun anymore, no reason to keep playing. Thanks for the spreadsheets and participating in testing @Ston.

 

Another trend I've noticed lately is Gold Standard is a place for those with the loudest keyboards to shout down any proposed ideas and threaten to leave the game if they don't get their way. Feels like there's more keyboard warriors than testers without agendas. It's a shame, but these things happen. People move on. It's been over five years now since Homecoming opened the doors so there's bound to be new ideas that don't fit in with the vision of the Homecoming Team.