Using another's build

[Lusiphur Malache]

Excuse me for a moment, having a whiskey fueled thought.  I've put a few builds on the forums for others, looked at a few builds from others.  I hope others have found success like I have.  Unfortunately, that might not be the case.  When you look at a build, you should know that the poster's playstyle may be drastically different from yours.  If it doesn't work for you don't blame them and if it doesn't work for them, I hope they don't blame you.  Better to just take a little bit and see how it goes. 

[Without_Pause]

I don't recommend using a build unless the person has actually played it to level 50 and for some time. I have seen a build theory crafted and it offered .1 End recovery while standing still. I try to only post builds which qualify under that rule, or at least least say I haven't when doing so is valid. It's still a good thing to look over a build and see how it can be tweaked to be better or more to your liking. Just because someone posts a build it doesn't mean they know what they are talking about. I've seen a fully IOed out build which still used 3-slotted Hasten.

[Uun]

Also keep in mind that often it's not the car, it's the driver. Some veteran players post videos of their exploits soloing +4/x8 TFs with all manner of self-imposed constraints. I applaud them. Don't expect to be able to do the same simply because you copy their builds. 

[aminsino]

Yeah i started yesterday and just followed a build now second guessing so going to make a new character and just choose whats fun see if i feel better that way. 

[JJDrakken]

That's the thing. Builds posted can be guidelines for folks to get a better understanding of what would best fit for them.  To tell someone not follow one, is a form of stunting their learning. 

 

I know folks who use mine as posted, love them and request more.

 

I know folks who use them as a template to then build around what they actually want.

 

I know folks who use them and tweak them as they go to fit their play style when they get a better feel.

 

Overall, following someone's build is fine.  It's up to the person to tailor it how they see fit and to help educate them in how powers and setup's better work overall.

[Without_Pause]

21 hours ago, aminsino said:

Yeah i started yesterday and just followed a build now second guessing so going to make a new character and just choose whats fun see if i feel better that way. 

I have a build which by all accounts should be great for me. At 30, it is one of the most underwhelming builds I have come across. Don't sweat it too much if a build doesn't work for you. If I can't get it to work post respec, I'll just move on. 

[tidge]

When I share my builds, I try to explain my rationale along with playstyle. Of course I realize I just shared a Fortunata build that was an update of a past Fortunata build and gave zero advice on it! In my defense, I had posted that sort of information to death in the past, so some search-fu might reveal it.

 

Generally I feel that there are enough other forum members that offer some play advice, but sometimes requests aren't much more than "anybody got ____?" I wouldn't throw shade at anyone who does little more than share a build in a followup.

[Seed22]

The best thing you can do for yourself is download mids and build your own 50s on it. It’s straight from the source and is respectful to the creator’s playstyle…you! 
 

Seconding that grab a build from the discord. I don’t know about all the forums builds but a lot are operating on outdated philosophies when it comes to build design, or are just straight up strange(no hasten for a good number of em) and have absolutely no synergy to them. 
 

I personally build my own. I never share any of my newer builds  because I don’t exactly know how and I don’t want to share my older builds as they’re outdated imo and I don’t play the toon as much.
 

 

Edited September 13 by Seed22

[SeraphimKensai]

Over the years I've tried to limit sharing my builds, but I am more often than not willing to work with people whether it's in the forums, on discord, or whatnot to go over fundamentals of build theory crafting so players understand how to make their own builds and get the most out of them. I find it improves our player base.

 

Just because someone has a pickup truck with a boat on a trailer doesn't mean they know how to successfully launch a boat.

Edited September 13 by SeraphimKensai

[JJDrakken]

My builds are rather easy to figure out.  Survival, able to take point and live.  Haste is not needed most the time. IMO haste is for folks who want to spam the same 2-3 powers over & over & over & over & over...  That to me defeats a build.  But I think/play different then those that enjoy doing that.

 

I know a lot folks like my style of running point and surviving on whatever AT you are on.  I also know folks who use my builds and change them to fit their own needs. It gives them base, idea, and something to start with and use it how they see fit.

Edited September 13 by JJDrakken

[tidge]

17 hours ago, JJDrakken said:

My builds are rather easy to figure out.  Survival, able to take point and live.  Haste is not needed most the time. IMO haste is for folks who want to spam the same 2-3 powers over & over & over & over & over...  That to me defeats a build.  But I think/play different then those that enjoy doing that.

 

I am also opposed to adding Hasten to a build "just because". I definitely see reasons to add it, and as noted wanting to use specific, often short, attack chains can be a valid reason for including it. I sometimes add Hasten when a build has a specific, long-recharge power (6-10 minutes) that I really want available ASAP. In general, I don't like the costs that Hasten brings. MMV, but here is what I see as its negatives:

• The direct Endurance sag at the end
• The burning of more Endurance by more button mashing
• The drive towards perma-Hasten (more slots to support this, possible using the auto-power choice)
• Burning a power pool pick on Speed

These can of course be mitigated, but to do so often costs more freedom-of-choice in any given build.

 

The one reaction I have to almost all builds that have Hasten included before level 12:

[The Time Witch]

I can't math or build theory to save my life so I usually just take someone's build and personalize it a bit. Don't think there's any shame in it.

[Gobbledigook]

You should always try them out on the test server first.

 

Builds will usually need tweaking and a change to the order the powers are taken, unless it is a build that has been used for some time. Just use them as a rough idea/guide otherwise.

[Ukase]

I don't share builds that I haven't leveled to 50 outside of a farm, myself. 

But, I belong to the TaskForce Junkies discord channel, and in there, are hundreds of builds by players, most of whom know what they're doing when it comes to making a build. I will download them and look at certain stats, and if I need to tweak here and there, I will, but most of the time, while I might take a power at a different level, I will follow the build and be pleased with the performance. 

I used to go to brainstorm, but found that takes more time than just doing the respec. And if I'm playing it organically, there's no need to test it out like that. I can tell by level 10-12 how things are going to go for most builds. 

[golstat2003]

Pretty much with over 40 level 50s, I can pretty much view a build and know if it will work for me. This is ofcourse after hours of palying various sets. For anyone else  I would recommend they try it out in the test server.

[seebs]

On 9/4/2024 at 7:09 AM, Without_Pause said:

I've seen a fully IOed out build which still used 3-slotted Hasten.

I don't even know why that's bad...

[Maelwys]

3 hours ago, seebs said:

I don't even know why that's bad...

Using Enhancement Boosted Level 50+5 IOs instead of regular old Single Origin Enhancements in Hasten results in you hitting severe Diminishing Returns from Enhancement Diversification after two enhancements instead of three.

Recharge Rate Reduction Enhancements are Schedule A, so one maxxed-out Enhancement of each type will give you 38.33% (a +3 SO) and 53% (a Lv50+5 IO).
Three +3 SOs grant 115.0%; reduced to 97.2% after ED.
Two 50+5 IOs give 106%; reduced to 95.9% after ED.

So before we had Boosters available, you really wanted to three-slot Hasten in order to "ED-cap" its recharge rate. But these days you only need to two-slot it.
You can certainly choose to overslot Hasten with a 3rd enhancement slot; but you'd only really get much use out of the 3rd slot whenever you're exemplaring below level 32.

[Thraxen]

I three slot sometimes. Gets about 4-5 seconds closer to perma depending. I like to get to 120-125 recharge on hasten. Depends on build. Lot easier gaining it there with one slot than changing several set bonuses chasing recharge bonuses there. It depends. Most do the time I 2 slot 50+5s. Sometimes it’s 3. I don’t think three slotting is automatically wrong. 

[Maelwys]

I mean, you could 6-slot Hasten and the extra Slots would shave ~12.5s off the recharge time rather than ~3.5s...?
But at some point the additional slot investment becomes a waste; and bang-for-your-buck-wise that's almost always at the 3rd slot mark.

Personally I'd almost always opt for more global recharge instead of overslotting Hasten once it hits the ED-redline; because whatever it is that I'm trying to get up sooner by building for Perma Hasten is going to benefit from that extra global recharge as well.
The only exception actually would be if I had a very specific attack chain that required the extra +70% from Hasten in order for there to be no noteworthy gaps in the chain... and even then, I'd usually still opt for Global Recharge if I had any long-recharge-time clickies in the build. (Or just take Ageless Desinty instead of Barrier...)
 

[JJDrakken]

Rules of 1, 3, & 5.  Ever since ED & Invention Recipes.

 

Rule of 1:  Unique recipe pieces. This mostly covers most Global stuff and Purples, AT Recipes, & Winter Recipes.

 

Rule of 3: 3 is your limit for enhancement baseline. Past that is it a utter waste of a slot for specific. Like slotting recharge with 6 recharge reduction. 

 

Rule of 5: This pertains to recipe bonuses. Say you got 4 of same recipe sets and 2 of another. All 6 grants say a 2.5% resist bonus to Smash/Lethal.  You'll only get bonuses of 5 of those 6 bonuses listed.

 

Rule of 3 is from E.D.  Which "Hot Take" I was all for and am glad they did it. It at the time extended the longevity of the game. When they introduced invention IO's & Recipes it even further gave the game a longer shelf life.

 

Edited November 25 by JJDrakken

[Zect]

Going from 2x +5 rech commons (the standard slotting) in haste to 3x +5 rech commons is the equivalent of +7.95% rech in haste. This is potentially slot-efficient considering +7.5% rech is a 5-6 slot bonus in most sets that offer it.

 

The reason this is not commonly used is that it applies only to haste itself, and not every power as a global rech bonus would. For most builds that take it, hasten itself is not the rech bottleneck: it is other long-recharging powers and attacks, so just overslotting haste itself does not achieve the goal being aimed for. As with rech set bonuses, the value of haste lies not merely in the rech it gives, but in being able to add rech to other powers without slotting rech enhancement (which devalues damage procs and/or competes with other desired bonuses).

[Glacier Peak]

22 minutes ago, Zect said:

Going from 2x +5 rech commons (the standard slotting) in haste to 3x +5 rech commons is the equivalent of +7.95% rech in haste. This is potentially slot-efficient considering +7.5% rech is a 5-6 slot bonus in most sets that offer it.

 

The reason this is not commonly used is that it applies only to haste itself, and not every power as a global rech bonus would. For most builds that take it, hasten itself is not the rech bottleneck: it is other long-recharging powers and attacks, so just overslotting haste itself does not achieve the goal being aimed for. As with rech set bonuses, the value of haste lies not merely in the rech it gives, but in being able to add rech to other powers without slotting rech enhancement (which devalues damage procs and/or competes with other desired bonuses).

Wow! What's the equivalent time lost if only 1-slotted for 50+5 Recharge IO compared to 2-slotting them?

[Uncle Shags]

People are so different from each other it's amazing.

 

Obviously, there's a lot of people who aren't particularly picky about their builds.  They're not interested in the minute details and just want to hand the build job off to someone else.  Whether or not it's "good" from a min/max standpoint doesn't matter to them.  That's fine. 

 

Others are very picky, and make multiple attempts, request review , and hem and haw over tiny differences in percentages. That's fine too. 

 

For the first group, having a fine tuned build that can push the envelope and pull off crazy stuff isn't as important.  For the second group, that's everything...

 

And then there's in-betweeners. 

 

When I see threads full of builds that don't meet my standards I just take a deep breath and say, "To each their own!"