What's going on?

[Gravitus]

I recently came back from a 2.5-year hiatus. I have farming toons........back in 2021, it would be the case i'd put them on idle farming and they were fine. Now I do the same and there is a 50/50 chance they die when i return to my screen.......did something fundamentally change as far as the game mechanics that require me to re-configure my fire/spines farmer? 

[MoonSheep]

yes

[Bionic_Flea]

Yes.  All three of the fire sword attacks now do -defense (https://cod.uberguy.net/html/powerset.html?pset=tanker_melee.fiery_melee&at=tanker).  So if one hits then the next one has a greater chance to hit and pretty soon your soft-cap defense to fire disappears.  People call it a cascade failure.  Oh! And burn damage was nerfed.  As you can imagine, farmers were not happy with these changes, but they adapted. 

Here are the patch notes for Page 5 -

 

They also changed the value of critter attacks in AE.  That means that critters without those sword attacks may not grant full experience.  So if you run some old farms you might notice a lot less XP.

 

Most of the AFK farmers have switched to tanks for the slightly higher defense stats to go beyond soft cap and slot for HP and regen to survive long enough.

Edited September 4 by Bionic_Flea

[arcane]

The aggro changes and the Fire Sword changes are the ones you need to consider.

The Fire Sword changes are easily countered by picking a map without Fire Swords.

 

The aggro changes will impact you in maps like the meteor map where you’re surrounded by well over the aggro cap. You need more regeneration on your farmer than you used to to counter this. 45% fire defense is no longer going to cut it. My Spines/Fire AFK build has ~300% +regen and 3 power transfer procs, on top of the usual 90% res / 45% def.

Edited September 4 by arcane

[GM Crumpet]

1 hour ago, Gravitus said:

I recently came back from a 2.5-year hiatus. I have farming toons........back in 2021, it would be the case i'd put them on idle farming and they were fine. Now I do the same and there is a 50/50 chance they die when i return to my screen.......did something fundamentally change as far as the game mechanics that require me to re-configure my fire/spines farmer? 

It was a shock to the system for all of us. I logged on to my favourite meteor map I used for relaxation and died almost instantly. I was so used to just standing there and soaking up the damage like a god it was quite humbling to realise I was now just a squishy 🙂 

[Gravitus]

18 minutes ago, arcane said:

The aggro changes and the Fire Sword changes are the ones you need to consider.

The Fire Sword changes are easily countered by picking a map without Fire Swords.

 

The aggro changes will impact you in maps like the meteor map where you’re surrounded by well over the aggro cap. You need more regeneration on your farmer than you used to to counter this. 45% fire defense is no longer going to cut it. My Spines/Fire AFK build has ~300% +regen and 3 power transfer procs, on top of the usual 90% res / 45% def.

how do you determine what maps have fire swords? 

[Scarlet Shocker]

Marvin Gaye

 

 

[Psyonico]

59 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

how do you determine what maps have fire swords? 

I don't think you can without trial and error.  I remember when this change was implemented a lot of people would change the title of the mission to reflect that it had been updated. Not sure if that's still the case.

[Ukase]

Just anecdotally, if you have a fairly reliable group of friends that log in around the same time - you will earn more doing an ITF than you will clearing a farm. Now, if you're just relaxing, and inf isn't your purpose, it probably won't matter if you run it at +3 or +4 - the powers used are the same. 

[Without_Pause]

1 minute ago, Ukase said:

Just anecdotally, if you have a fairly reliable group of friends that log in around the same time - you will earn more doing an ITF than you will clearing a farm. Now, if you're just relaxing, and inf isn't your purpose, it probably won't matter if you run it at +3 or +4 - the powers used are the same. 

At one point Bill Z Bubba was looking to level asap on a build since he was trying to hit Level 666. He found max diff daily DA missions worked best.

[arcane]

1 hour ago, Gravitus said:

how do you determine what maps have fire swords? 

I think they’ll say like “page 5 ready” in the title oftentimes. Can someone else confirm? Either that or ask around for map recs. I use America’s Angel’s for the meteor.

[Ukase]

4 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

At one point Bill Z Bubba was looking to level asap on a build since he was trying to hit Level 666. He found max diff daily DA missions worked best.

I would think now the labyrinth would be the go-to for such things, with the 25% xp buff. 

[arcane]

Just now, Ukase said:

I would think now the labyrinth would be the go-to for such things, with the 25% xp buff. 

Good luck getting anything but debt without a very special league. Most leagues ignore the mobs and hunt fogs.

[Without_Pause]

3 minutes ago, Ukase said:

I would think now the labyrinth would be the go-to for such things, with the 25% xp buff. 

This was some time ago.

[Glacier Peak]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

I would think now the labyrinth would be the go-to for such things, with the 25% xp buff. 

Or Indomitable! Sweet 100% XP boost 😁

[twozerofoxtrot]

1 hour ago, Without_Pause said:

At one point Bill Z Bubba was looking to level asap on a build since he was trying to hit Level 666. He found max diff daily DA missions worked best.

 

I used to (and sometimes still) do this to grind levels. On the maps themselves you get a great return with a well built tanker because although you're fighting the most rewarding enemies in the game, you sit at +3 levels to them with the key incarnates loaded.

 

Level shifts don't affect rewards; you're getting lvl54 boss drops off an effective lvl 51 boss. And they're getting purple patched by you so things like "incarnate def softcap" no longer applies (in full).

 

The only issue I had was travel time between doors. Dark Astoria has a lot of real estate. 

[twozerofoxtrot]

4 hours ago, Gravitus said:

did something fundamentally change as far as the game mechanics that require me to re-configure my fire/spines farmer? 

 

To be honest, I'd say you're better off with a Fire/Rad tanker now, and if going AFK set the Rad Melee AoE on auto, not Burn. Brutes still work though, I still have one for when I want to help Plvl friends.

 

38 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Or Indomitable! Sweet 100% XP boost 😁

 

And yeah, make it on Indom unless that creates some sort of severe logistical burden for your style of play. The 3 less-populated servers all have standing xp buffs, which you can check the amount by typing /gmotd in game.

Edited September 4 by twozerofoxtrot

[Psyonico]

28 minutes ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

And they're getting purple patched by you so things like "incarnate def softcap" no longer applies (in full)

 

Not sure what you mean here. Incarnate defense cap and purple patch are two different things.

[twozerofoxtrot]

14 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

 

Not sure what you mean here. Incarnate defense cap and purple patch are two different things.

But one affects the other. It is why level shifts are so powerful. 

[Jacke]

7 hours ago, Gravitus said:

how do you determine what maps have fire swords? 

 

Look for "Page 5" in the AE.  That'll be the farming maps that were updated to remove Fire Sword attacks.

 

 

Edited September 5 by Jacke

[BlackSpectre]

Yeah, the old spines/fire brutes aren’t the best for AFK farming anymore. They’re still good for active farming, you just have to be aware of when your defense is being overwhelmed by a horde of mobs and jump out of combat for a few seconds to let the debuffs wear off. Then jump right back in. /monitorattribute helps a lot with this by watching your Base Defense. 
 

that said, finding a good mission or two is key these days. 

Edited September 5 by BlackSpectre

[Maelwys]

7 hours ago, Psyonico said:

Quote

And they're getting purple patched by you so things like "incarnate def softcap" no longer applies (in full)

Not sure what you mean here. Incarnate defense cap and purple patch are two different things.

 

It's not hugely obvious unless you go delving... but if you're even +1 higher level than the Critters you're fighting then those Critters get a sizable ToHit penalty. Whenever the Critter is higher level than you (typical "purple patch" thinking) they gain accuracy buffs instead (which doesn't directly counteract and negate a player's own defense buffs) until they're +6 to you or higher.

 

From the Attack Mechanics page: 

 

 

[Scarlet Shocker]

12 hours ago, Gravitus said:

how do you determine what maps have fire swords? 

 

 

just ask Arthur Brown

[MoonSheep]

11 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

 

I used to (and sometimes still) do this to grind levels. On the maps themselves you get a great return with a well built tanker because although you're fighting the most rewarding enemies in the game, you sit at +3 levels to them with the key incarnates loaded.

 

Level shifts don't affect rewards; you're getting lvl54 boss drops off an effective lvl 51 boss. And they're getting purple patched by you so things like "incarnate def softcap" no longer applies (in full).

 

The only issue I had was travel time between doors. Dark Astoria has a lot of real estate. 

 

i didn’t know this, thanks. will give it a go at the weekend

[Crysis]

All you need to about current state of AE farming, maps and builds included:

 

 

I still get sub 5-min clear times on my old school Spines/Fire farmer running AA’s revised meteor map doing -active- farming.  But as the thread demonstrates, tankers and S/L farms now hold top spots for passive farming.

 

You can easily respec and reuse your old farmer for effective active farming, although the reward nerfs likely wont net you anywhere near the same gains.  These days i just use my farmer for powerleveling new alts to 32-35 to blow by the monotony of lower levels.