Illusion/Sonic

[Agorazium]

I've wanted to make this combo work for a while but found it boring and on the weaker side. Decided to try again now that Liquefy is a usable power and it feels a lot better, but I think the build could be improved. The downside of Sonic is still there - it's not great for IO sets so I'm still quite far away from perma-PA (17 seconds without FF Recharge procs). I'm not really sure where I can squeeze more recharge in without dropping a bunch of powers.

 

I dropped Spectral Terror on purpose. It's nice in low-level content but once PA, Flash and Liquefy are all slotted up it doesn't see much use since Liquefy in particular just does it all better. 

 

I have been enjoying Force of Will for a better attack chain and more AOE damage but I anticipate that'll have to go if I want perma-PA.

 

Hero Controller
Build plan made with Mids' Reborn v3.7.5 rev. 21
──────────────────────────────

• Primary powerset: Illusion Control
• Secondary powerset: Sonic Resonance
• Pool powerset (#1): Leadership
• Pool powerset (#2): Force of Will
• Pool powerset (#3): Speed
• Pool powerset (#4): Flight
• Epic powerset: Energy Mastery

──────────────────────────────

Powers taken:

Level 1: Blind

• A: Thunderstrike: Accuracy/Damage
• 3: Thunderstrike: Damage/Endurance
• 3: Thunderstrike: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• 5: Thunderstrike: Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• 5: Unbreakable Constraint: Chance for Smashing Damage
• 7: Apocalypse: Chance of Damage(Negative)

Level 1: Sonic Siphon

• A: Invention: Accuracy

Level 2: Deceive

• A: Coercive Persuasion : Confused
• 9: Coercive Persuasion : Confused/Recharge
• 11: Coercive Persuasion : Confused/Recharge/Accuracy
• 11: Coercive Persuasion : Recharge/Accuracy
• 13: Coercive Persuasion : Confused/Endurance
• 13: Coercive Persuasion : Contagious Confusion

Level 4: Sonic Barrier

• A: Unbreakable Guard: Resistance
• 15: Unbreakable Guard: Resistance/Endurance

Level 6: Sonic Haven

• A: Unbreakable Guard: Resistance
• 15: Unbreakable Guard: Resistance/Endurance

Level 8: Flash

• A: Superior Will of the Controller: Accuracy/Control Duration
• 17: Superior Will of the Controller: Control Duration/Recharge
• 17: Superior Will of the Controller: Endurance/Recharge
• 19: Superior Will of the Controller: Accuracy/Control Duration/Endurance
• 33: Superior Will of the Controller: Accuracy/Control Duration/Endurance/Recharge
• 33: Superior Will of the Controller: Recharge/Chance for Psionic Damage

Level 10: Superior Invisibility

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• 19: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Endurance

Level 12: Maneuvers

• A: Red Fortune: Defense/Endurance
• 21: Red Fortune: Defense/Recharge
• 21: Red Fortune: Endurance/Recharge
• 23: Red Fortune: Defense/Endurance/Recharge
• 23: Red Fortune: Defense
• 25: Red Fortune: Endurance

Level 14: Tactics

• A: Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control: To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
• 34: Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control: To Hit Buff/Endurance

Level 16: Disruption Field

• A: Invention: Endurance Reduction

Level 18: Phantom Army

• A: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Recharge
• 25: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Damage
• 27: Expedient Reinforcement: Damage/Endurance
• 27: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• 29: Expedient Reinforcement: Endurance/Damage/Recharge
• 29: Expedient Reinforcement: Resist Bonus Aura for Pets

Level 20: Sonic Dispersion

• A: Impervium Armor: Resistance/Endurance
• 31: Impervium Armor: Resistance
• 31: Impervium Armor: Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
• 31: Impervium Armor: Resistance/Recharge
• 33: Gladiator's Armor: TP Protection +3% Def (All)

Level 22: Group Invisibility

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 24: Mighty Leap

• A: Blessing of the Zephyr: Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range
• 34: Blessing of the Zephyr: Knockback Reduction (4 points)

Level 26: Phantasm

• A: Sovereign Right: Accuracy/Damage
• 36: Sovereign Right: Damage/Endurance
• 36: Sovereign Right: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• 36: Soulbound Allegiance: Chance for Build Up
• 50: Sudden Acceleration: Knockback to Knockdown

Level 28: Project Will

• A: Thunderstrike: Accuracy/Damage
• 34: Explosive Strike: Chance for Smashing Damage
• 37: Thunderstrike: Damage/Endurance
• 37: Thunderstrike: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• 37: Thunderstrike: Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 30: Liquefy

• A: Cloud Senses: ToHit Debuff
• 39: Cloud Senses: Accuracy/ToHitDebuff
• 39: Cloud Senses: Accuracy/Recharge
• 39: Cloud Senses: ToHit Debuff/Endurance/Recharge
• 40: Cloud Senses: Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
• 40: Cloud Senses: Chance for Negative Energy Damage

Level 32: Hasten

• A: Invention: Recharge Reduction
• 40: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 35: Power Blast

• A: Thunderstrike: Accuracy/Damage
• 42: Thunderstrike: Damage/Endurance
• 42: Thunderstrike: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• 42: Thunderstrike: Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• 43: Force Feedback: Chance for +Recharge

Level 38: Temp Invulnerability

• A: Steadfast Protection: Resistance/+Def 3%
• 43: Impervium Armor: Resistance
• 43: Impervium Armor: Resistance/Endurance

Level 41: Energy Torrent

• A: Positron's Blast: Accuracy/Damage
• 45: Positron's Blast: Damage/Endurance
• 45: Positron's Blast: Damage/Range
• 45: Positron's Blast: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• 46: Positron's Blast: Chance of Damage(Energy)
• 46: Bombardment: Chance for Fire Damage

Level 44: Wall of Force

• A: Positron's Blast: Accuracy/Damage
• 46: Positron's Blast: Damage/Endurance
• 48: Positron's Blast: Damage/Range
• 48: Positron's Blast: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• 48: Positron's Blast: Chance of Damage(Energy)
• 50: Bombardment: Chance for Fire Damage

Level 47: Hover

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 49: Sonic  Repulsion

• A: Force Feedback: Chance for +Recharge
• 50: Sudden Acceleration: Knockback to Knockdown

──────────────────────────────

Inherents:

Level 1: Containment

Level 1: Brawl

• (Empty)

Level 1: Sprint

• (Empty)

Level 2: Rest

• (Empty)

Level 1: Swift

• (Empty)

Level 1: Hurdle

• (Empty)

Level 1: Health

• A: Miracle: +Recovery
• 7: Panacea: +Hit Points/Endurance

Level 1: Stamina

• A: Performance Shifter: EndMod
• 9: Performance Shifter: Chance for +End

Level 24: Takeoff

https://api.midsreborn.com/build/download/FoOoIZGyHsSDf614

Edited September 7 by Agorazium

[Uun]

• Replace one of the Thunderstrike sets with Apocalypse.
• Swap Red Fortune in Maneuvers for LOTG
• Drop the resist bonus piece from Phantom Army and move the Soulbound %BU from Phantasm
• Slot Phantasm with 4x Expedient Reinforcement plus the KB>KD
• Why are you skipping Spectral Wounds? Much better DPA than Project Will or Power Blast.
• Recharges in Hasten should be +5.

[Agorazium]

17 hours ago, Uun said:

• Replace one of the Thunderstrike sets with Apocalypse.
• Swap Red Fortune in Maneuvers for LOTG
• Drop the resist bonus piece from Phantom Army and move the Soulbound %BU from Phantasm
• Slot Phantasm with 4x Expedient Reinforcement plus the KB>KD
• Why are you skipping Spectral Wounds? Much better DPA than Project Will or Power Blast.
• Recharges in Hasten should be +5.

Thanks! Re: Spectral Wounds, the only time I'm ever spamming my ST chain is against AVs really, and with the healing I assumed it would be lower damage over time than the other two.

[Maxzero]

On 9/8/2024 at 3:03 PM, Agorazium said:

Thanks! Re: Spectral Wounds, the only time I'm ever spamming my ST chain is against AVs really, and with the healing I assumed it would be lower damage over time than the other two.

 

You would be right. Spectral Wounds it a very weak attack except as a set mule. It has poor proc options, does not get full Containment damage not to mention the heal back.

 

Weaken Resolve with 3x damage procs and a -res proc is fine and it helps the rest of your powers do much more damage.

Edited September 22 by Maxzero

[Wimbochismo]

2 hours ago, Maxzero said:

 

You would be right. Spectral Wounds it a very weak attack except as a set mule. It has poor proc options, does not get full Containment damage not to mention the heal back.

 

Weaken Resolve with 3x damage procs and a -res proc is fine and it helps the rest of your powers do much more damage.

 

This is an additional PSA to never skip Spectral Wounds as part of a single target attack chain. Partially discounting if you have the build flexibility to proc heavily.

 

Slotted with a full dmg set, it's one of the highest dpa powers available to Controller's. If you include the healback in every case, it is 50.16-19.57=30.59 dmg. This is also the Containment dmg that is being added. Cast Arcanatime is 1.32s which gives a dpa around 23.17

 

Compare this to other, similar attacks that you may want to put a full dmg set in. Those that are sub 8s recharge and not very proccable.

• Fire Blast dpa 22.11
• Project Will dpa 17.39
• Ice Blast dpa 16.25
• Power Blast dpa 16.55

Now the fun part is that the healback is always a flat -19.57 and doesn't scale with added dmg. It also takes 10s for the healback to occur, so if you can kill something in ~10s you can look at the dmg as 50.16 which is a dpa of 38

[Uun]

2 hours ago, Maxzero said:

You would be right. Spectral Wounds it a very weak attack except as a set mule. It has poor proc options, does not get full Containment damage not to mention the heal back.

 

Weaken Resolve with 3x damage procs and a -res proc is fine and it helps the rest of your powers do much more damage.

Spectral Wounds, after the heal back, does the same damage as every other controller T1 attack except Lift and Levitate. It gets full containment damage, it just doesn't get it on the damage that heals back. More importantly, the heal-back isn't effected by enhancements. Slotted for ED max damage, while the base and containment damage increase from 80.75 to 154.45, the heal-back stays at 19.57. SW happens to have a short activation time, giving it solid DPA of 102.18 slotted for ED max damage, after heal-back and including Containment. 

 

Weaken Resolve, while accepting 3 %dmg procs, has a long activation time. If all 3 procs go off, DPA is only 95.92, still lower than SW. 

 

Slotted for ED max damage and including containment, DPA is 61.66 for Project Will and 64.55 for Power Blast. 

[Maxzero]

27 minutes ago, Uun said:

Spectral Wounds, after the heal back, does the same damage as every other controller T1 attack except Lift and Levitate. It gets full containment damage, it just doesn't get it on the damage that heals back. More importantly, the heal-back isn't effected by enhancements. Slotted for ED max damage, while the base and containment damage increase from 80.75 to 154.45, the heal-back stays at 19.57. SW happens to have a short activation time, giving it solid DPA of 102.18 slotted for ED max damage, after heal-back and including Containment. 

 

Weaken Resolve, while accepting 3 %dmg procs, has a long activation time. If all 3 procs go off, DPA is only 95.92, still lower than SW. 

 

Slotted for ED max damage and including containment, DPA is 61.66 for Project Will and 64.55 for Power Blast. 

 

Yeah but we all know Trollers are all about procs. Spectral Wounds has only 2 procs available and 1 of them is highly contested and unique. Weaken Resolve also does -7.5% resist which benefits all your damage in addition if you need a Ach Heel deliver (90% proc chance) that's another -20 all res and that's game.

Edited September 22 by Maxzero

[Uun]

3 minutes ago, Maxzero said:

Yeah but we all know Trollers are all about procs. Spectral Wounds has only 2 procs available and 1 of them is highly contested and unique. Weaken Resolve also does -7.5% resist which benefits all your damage. If you need a Ach Heel deliver thats another -20 all res and that's all she wrote.

An Illusion controller is very much NOT all about procs.

[Area Man]

6 hours ago, Wimbochismo said:

 

This is an additional PSA to never skip Spectral Wounds as part of a single target attack chain. Partially discounting if you have the build flexibility to proc heavily.

 

Slotted with a full dmg set, it's one of the highest dpa powers available to Controller's. If you include the healback in every case, it is 50.16-19.57=30.59 dmg. This is also the Containment dmg that is being added. Cast Arcanatime is 1.32s which gives a dpa around 23.17

 

Compare this to other, similar attacks that you may want to put a full dmg set in. Those that are sub 8s recharge and not very proccable.

• Fire Blast dpa 22.11
• Project Will dpa 17.39
• Ice Blast dpa 16.25
• Power Blast dpa 16.55

Now the fun part is that the healback is always a flat -19.57 and doesn't scale with added dmg. It also takes 10s for the healback to occur, so if you can kill something in ~10s you can look at the dmg as 50.16 which is a dpa of 38

 A long time ago, I wrote an Illusion/Radiation Controller guide on the Live Forums in which I recommended a strategy for using Spectral Wounds and maximizing your damage. You can find that guide here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120905042613/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=141225

Under Strategies and Discussions: Maximizing your Damage, I explained a strategy to maximize your damage by (a) setting up a quick attack chain of Blind-Spectral Wounds-APP Blast-Spectral Wounds (B-SW-Bl-SW), and (b) focus your attacks first on taking out minions and then Lieutenants, before attacking the bosses or AVs.  Why? If you kill low level foes quickly, the Illusory Damage doesn't have a chance to heal back.  While you reduce the numbers of foes, your pets can focus on the tougher targets, drawing their aggro away from you.  When all the low level foes are gone, you can focus on taking down the tough ones in relative safety.

To get the attack chain, you need a fast recharging blast, and I argue that Fire is the best, but Ice is next best.  With these, you can spam the B-SW-Bl-SW attack chain quickly.

My guide had all kinds of details and strategies for Illusion.  Although there new set options to get Perma-PA, most of the info in the Guide still applies today.

[Maxzero]

10 hours ago, Uun said:

An Illusion controller is very much NOT all about procs.

 

Sure it is. Blind is the primary damage often running 6 procs. BU proc in PA. Knockback damage proc in Phantasm. You can even proc up Spectral Terror but you usually use sets.

 

Without reliable Containment base damage for Illusion Trollers is a much lower priority.

[Uun]

11 hours ago, Maxzero said:

Sure it is. Blind is the primary damage often running 6 procs. BU proc in PA. Knockback damage proc in Phantasm. You can even proc up Spectral Terror but you usually use sets.

 

Without reliable Containment base damage for Illusion Trollers is a much lower priority.

Illusion is typically built to achieve perma-PA. You get far more damage out of PA than you do from your personal attacks, even with %dmg procs. Slotting should focus on set bonuses that provide global recharge. Can you also work procs in? Absolutely, but I'm not trading a recharge bonus in Blind for 6 %dmg procs.

[Maxzero]

52 minutes ago, Uun said:

Illusion is typically built to achieve perma-PA. You get far more damage out of PA than you do from your personal attacks, even with %dmg procs. Slotting should focus on set bonuses that provide global recharge. Can you also work procs in? Absolutely, but I'm not trading a recharge bonus in Blind for 6 %dmg procs.

 

Making a proc bomb out of your single target hold is pretty much standard for any serious endgame Troller build due to the lack of good ST attacks for Trollers. Blind is one of the better ones for this since it's animation time is on the faster end plus it's cooldown is 1 second longer the normal ST holds giving it better proc rates. My Blind for example does 400 damage an activation. That's not counting buffs, any random Containments or -res on target.

 

Recharge bonus are not really too hard to get especially if you have access to some KB attacks for FF +recharge to supplement it. Its why Marine goes so well with Illusion.

 

You would far better off making Blind the damage and Spectral Wounds the set mule if you take it.

Edited September 23 by Maxzero

[Frosticus]

Spec wounds is fine. The healback is a drop in the bucket. We still love PA and it has lots of healback that kicks in after 5 seconds vs 10.

 

I will take spec wounds over something like arcane bolt in a heartbeat. Spec wounds can slip into small attack chain gaps and the damage is instant hit compared to the corpse blasting of arcane. (As an example).

 

Sometimes you have to make build choices though. My ill/Marine dropped spec and ends up using whitecap and brine in my st chain. That isn't always optimal, but you only have so many powers available. 

[Maxzero]

4 hours ago, Frosticus said:

Spec wounds is fine. The healback is a drop in the bucket. We still love PA and it has lots of healback that kicks in after 5 seconds vs 10.

 

I will take spec wounds over something like arcane bolt in a heartbeat. Spec wounds can slip into small attack chain gaps and the damage is instant hit compared to the corpse blasting of arcane. (As an example).

 

Sometimes you have to make build choices though. My ill/Marine dropped spec and ends up using whitecap and brine in my st chain. That isn't always optimal, but you only have so many powers available. 

 

That's my point though, it is a low priority power that is easy to replace.

[Frosticus]

Maybe. It gets used a ton on my ill/cold/stone which is a st monster.

I'd like to have it on my ill/Marine/mace, cause brine is so so to spam against AVs, but it came down to that or the patron spider. I picked the latter.  That choice weakens me in lower level content like penny Yin tho.

 

As for an ill/sonic I'm not sure what attack I'd replace it with, the power pool attacks are meh and you generally want 3  (at least) st attacks to make a chain.

[Maxzero]

41 minutes ago, Frosticus said:

Maybe. It gets used a ton on my ill/cold/stone which is a st monster.

I'd like to have it on my ill/Marine/mace, cause brine is so so to spam against AVs, but it came down to that or the patron spider. I picked the latter.  That choice weakens me in lower level content like penny Yin tho.

 

As for an ill/sonic I'm not sure what attack I'd replace it with, the power pool attacks are meh and you generally want 3  (at least) st attacks to make a chain.

 

Ironically Spectral Wounds is at its worst in Illusion. It's fighting with Blind over the Ragnarok proc and Illusion does not have the Containment to take advantage of the high base damage. It would be top notch in Earth Control.

[Wimbochismo]

1 hour ago, Maxzero said:

 

Ironically Spectral Wounds is at its worst in Illusion. It's fighting with Blind over the Ragnarok proc and Illusion does not have the Containment to take advantage of the high base damage. It would be top notch in Earth Control.

 

Blind is a mag 3 Hold which sets up Containment. It also happens to do a 2ft radius Sleep. If you mean easy access to aoe Containment, then in some of the secondary's mentioned there's powers like Liquefy and Choking Cloud.

[Maxzero]

4 hours ago, Wimbochismo said:

 

Blind is a mag 3 Hold which sets up Containment. It also happens to do a 2ft radius Sleep. If you mean easy access to aoe Containment, then in some of the secondary's mentioned there's powers like Liquefy and Choking Cloud.

 

Hold does not work on Boss or higher (without stacking) which is what you most want to CC. 

 

2ft sleep? Come on man be realistic.

 

Illusion is designed around not having Containment.

[Frosticus]

10 hours ago, Maxzero said:

Illusion is designed around not having Containment.

 

exactly. I've never once cared about containment on any of my illusion trollers (cold and marine)

Which is why I appreciate the increased base damage of the power and the fact it has low containment damage is not of concern to me. Most bosses die well before the healback kicks in, not that it matters once you factor in all the +dam and -res, it's just not a consideration for me.

 

It's rare trollers get an early direct attack. The other 6 second options are lift and levitate. I personally prefer spec wounds over either of those, even with lift having been buffed with the distortion proc simply because the damage is so delayed.

[Maxzero]

8 hours ago, Frosticus said:

 

exactly. I've never once cared about containment on any of my illusion trollers (cold and marine)

Which is why I appreciate the increased base damage of the power and the fact it has low containment damage is not of concern to me. Most bosses die well before the healback kicks in, not that it matters once you factor in all the +dam and -res, it's just not a consideration for me.

 

It's rare trollers get an early direct attack. The other 6 second options are lift and levitate. I personally prefer spec wounds over either of those, even with lift having been buffed with the distortion proc simply because the damage is so delayed.

 

It's fine at low levels sure but I find it lacks come endgame.

 

If you have nothing else to fill your ST attack chain fine but for me it's usually one of the first cut.