War Mace - Ninjitsu : Scrappers Only

[Troo]

I don't often Scrapper, but when I do.. I ask for some guidance.

 

The combination War Mace - Ninjitsu is only available on Scrappers (I did not know this). So I am intrigued. Battle Ax too

 

Ninjitsu pairings only available on Scrappers: Battle Axe | Katana | Titan Weapons | War Mace

 

 

Attacking out of Ninjitsu;s stealth power can provide increased crits. Interesting. It's all about the crits!

 

 

Below is what I was able to cobble together build wise. Concerns, comments, and suggestions welcomed.

I am good with using Kuji-In Retsu (T9) often. As I understand it, the set can deal with the endurance crash.

 

I would have liked to squeeze Tactics in but went with double HOs instead.

 

I'll port this into the test environment and see if Moon Beam quick snipes and is worth not selecting the alternatives.

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.1.2.5
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: War Mace
Secondary Power Set: Ninjitsu
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Pulverize

• (A) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage
• (3) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Damage/Recharge
• (3) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (5) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (5) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (7) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Recharge/Critical Hit Bonus
  

Level 1: Ninja Reflexes

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• (25) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance
• (27) Shield Wall - Defense
• (27) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)
  

Level 2: Jawbreaker

• (A) Hecatomb - Damage
• (7) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge
• (9) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (9) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge
• (11) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance
  

Level 4: Boxing

• (A) Absolute Amazement - Stun
• (29) Absolute Amazement - Stun/Recharge
• (29) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge
• (31) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Recharge
• (31) Absolute Amazement - Endurance/Stun
  

Level 6: Build Up

• (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
  

Level 8: Clobber

• (A) HamiO:Nucleolus Exposure
• (11) HamiO:Nucleolus Exposure
• (13) Superior Critical Strikes - RechargeTime/+50% Crit Proc
• (13) Gladiator's Strike - Chance for Smashing Damage
• (15) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative)
• (15) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)
  

Level 10: Danger Sense

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• (31) Reactive Defenses - Defense
• (34) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance
• (37) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage
  

Level 12: Shinobi-Iri

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• (39) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
• (39) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
• (39) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
  

Level 14: Super Jump

• (A) Winter's Gift - Slow Resistance (20%)
  

Level 16: Kuji-In Rin

• (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
  

Level 18: Whirling Mace

• (A) Armageddon - Damage
• (19) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge
• (19) Armageddon - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (21) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge
• (21) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance
• (23) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage
  

Level 20: Seishinteki Kyoyo

• (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod
• (40) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
  

Level 22: Kuji-In Sha

• (A) Numina's Convalesence - Heal/Endurance
• (43) Numina's Convalesence - Endurance/Recharge
• (45) Numina's Convalesence - Heal/Recharge
• (45) Numina's Convalesence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
• (45) Numina's Convalesence - Heal
• (46) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
  

Level 24: Combat Jumping

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• (40) Karma - Knockback Protection
• (40) Kismet - Accuracy +6%
  

Level 26: Hasten

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
• (48) Recharge Reduction IO
  

Level 28: Bo Ryaku

• (A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
• (46) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
• (46) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
• (47) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (47) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP
  

Level 30: Tough

• (A) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection
  

Level 32: Crowd Control

• (A) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage
• (33) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage
• (33) Fury of the Gladiator - Chance for Res Debuff
• (33) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (34) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
• (34) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge
  

Level 35: Moonbeam

• (A) Apocalypse - Damage
• (36) Apocalypse - Damage/Recharge
• (36) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (36) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Recharge
• (37) Apocalypse - Damage/Endurance
• (37) Decimation - Chance of Build Up
  

Level 38: Kuji-In Retsu

• (A) HamiO:Membrane Exposure
• (49) HamiO:Membrane Exposure
  

Level 41: Shatter

• (A) HamiO:Nucleolus Exposure
• (42) HamiO:Nucleolus Exposure
• (42) Scirocco's Dervish - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
• (42) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage
• (43) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
• (43) Explosive Strike - Chance for Smashing Damage
  

Level 44: Weave

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• (48) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
• (48) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
  

Level 47: Shadow Meld

• (A) Defense Buff IO
  

Level 49: Acrobatics

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO
  

Level 1: Critical Hit

Level 1: Brawl

 

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
		|MxDz;1449;691;1382;HEX;|
		|78DA65944B4F135114C7EF74A6624BCBC3421F400B45A02F3A2DAE14319A882C801|
		|2B43E56868CE516461B68DA92485CFB058CC60D71EFF770E5F36B18A360A2267541|
		|C6D3F99F6B6B9CA4FDF53CEF3967CE6DE9F172A05A5DB926B481EB35ABD9DC2A571|
		|A56BD2E1BDE92B5635744E7E9A34F44E9B74AB226A579CFA25F5645C6FEEA976555|
		|EE35A5B961EF3DB45BCD0311DCDCDFAF992BF6CE6ECBDEDB09B8D2BAB4EA24F85DA|
		|15C97727B50E9B765A3B96BD76337EA76C52CB7ACDA234A5ADE3FA8D139CD966C1C|
		|46A98CD94E2961FAD2DCCA1CAF78AB0BB16008CF3BE67BD0F8C0FC089EF9047A33D|
		|D605D8C6AAE32BA02E3D82A730D8C8695AF700C6DCE834C29F06C9A9901FD5950A3|
		|71E92A485F8572628DB90E264ACC0D30462779719623BCAFA11C0B63F66EA37D4B9|
		|D37A10B3F33200DD7299046AD0339040D6C913D456552A33ED5A88F1B4D1CC33979|
		|02CEFC00FBC8B95F39F7B3F3DC107384190223545390CB12C1719DA720C4A0E636E|
		|E88C10879C6A95B6A6058BDA9E18B28F0DC25E622387299B904868F3D6EB08F3286|
		|38580B3D8331F592874DC6519579F4260ACBDE02E7CBCCDBCC3B60FE2E18A606221|
		|CEC8970B7A9B6708F4D9D82D3E41453C7C772C2752A30FBE9F871361AE3173082FC|
		|4FE62FD06C337F833A658C7390884731A2048D6852BDE3C923BCD3291EC1D455444|
		|EBD823E7905DD279F829FC93CAD616BBCD3F3509ECF334D66019C29328FB020C10C|
		|AE93DBE0EC22B6AAC88C53596955569A572EA3F80453C87099598132B3872487E8C|
		|E51A33935DF1CCFB7C0DB54E06D6A078430D5169909648C5264518DA8988472D2E8|
		|5E5967C210EA7134F10273197A0EAEF7183BCE8E23368DEE15169AABFAE6EFE663A|
		|FE3FF5527FFA892E8F0BBBFF7DF837771E80B4E0F7F05A327E09B6CF79E386B2414|
		|95709FD22CA88EAC5EE141AFB0D92BFC01D3F9C93B|
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

 

Clobber -->  Shatter -->  Jawbreaker -->  Pulverize -->  Clobber

Estimated Peak DPS: 652.. that can't be right

• (A) Superior Blistering Cold - Recharge/Chance for Hold
• (17) Superior Blistering Cold - Damage/Endurance/Accuracy/RechargeTime
  

Level 1: Sprint

• (A) Empty
  

Level 2: Rest

• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Swift

• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Hurdle

• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Health

• (A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
  

Level 1: Stamina

• (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
• (17) Synapse's Shock - EndMod
• (23) Synapse's Shock - EndMod/Recharge
• (25) Synapse's Shock - EndMod/Increased Run Speed
  

Level 14: Double Jump

Level 49: Quick Form
Level 50: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
------------

 

[Frosticus]

I went stone/nin/fire. Perma t9>unleash potential. Clarion radial boosting everything. 

 

It's pretty nuts. Only like 20% res though, so you still get 2 shot sometimes.

 

 

[Erratic1]

Always nice comparing to what someone else has done with the combo. Our numbers are comprable--mine has better AoE defense and S/L resistance, yours has better Psionic resistance.

 

 

Spoiler

https://api.midsreborn.com/legacy/download?uc=1616&c=688&a=1376&f=HEX&dc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

 

I have Agility Core Paragon planned for Alpha.

 

Edited September 11 by Erratic1

[Yomo Kimyata]

On 9/10/2024 at 10:53 PM, Troo said:

The combination War Mace - Ninjitsu is only available on Scrappers (I did not know this). So I am intrigued. Battle Ax too

 

Ninjitsu is only for scrappers and stalkers, so this isn’t some great conspiracy!  Stalkers get Ninja Blade instead of Katana, and the powers that be feel (rightfully imo) that Battle Axe, War Mace, and Titan Weapons would be too powerful for stalkers without significant rebalancing.

 

Coincidentally I just started reinvestigating my WM/Nin who I took to 50 but didn’t love.  I don’t have much experience with pure defense sets, but my hazy memory says that I remember him being significantly more fragile than I expected.  That said it was an organic build in an unknown set to me so I’m sure I made errors.  I’ll be back later on this one.

[Troo]

17 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

and the powers that be feel (rightfully imo) that Battle Axe, War Mace, and Titan Weapons would be too powerful for stalkers without significant rebalancing.

😞

 

18 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Coincidentally I just started reinvestigating my WM/Nin who I took to 50 but didn’t love.  I don’t have much experience with pure defense sets, but my hazy memory says that I remember him being significantly more fragile than I expected.  That said it was an organic build in an unknown set to me so I’m sure I made errors.  I’ll be back later on this one.

 

I am looking at Battle Axe, War Mace, and Dark Melee as pairings for Ninjitsu. Dark Melee ended up feeling too clunky on the test server. War Mace is at least a little smoother while still hitting hard. Managing when crits have the most chance to hit might take some time.

 

I grabbed Mace as an Epic ranged because 'the numbers' but it ended up being really wonky with a delayed activation and then another long delay before damage was applied. Maybe it was just on the test server.

 

[Yomo Kimyata]

Here are some initial thoughts, and I'll try a build over the next week:

 

I solo just about everything, so in general I want a ST rotation and an AoE rotation.  For ST I'll go with some combo of Pulverize, Clobber, Shatter, and a snipe.  For AoE I've got Whirling Mace, Shatter, Crowd Control.  For WM I use Shatter as the holder for Critical Strikes proc to enhance crits for both ST and AoE.  This also means I'll always lead out of "hide" with Shatter.

 

I usually three slot generic defense toggles with a LotG proc and 2x lvl 53 cytos.  Saves me slots I put elsewhere since the bonuses for defense sets are pretty weak and I'm better off using those slots elsewhere.  

 

I'm not really seeing the point in the T9.  Yes, it doubles your DDR, but then again, I'm only going to need ANY DDR on a streak breaker.  Even if the crash is manageable, I'd rather smash than manage.

 

Thinking power pools of Leaping (CJ), Fighting (Kick, Tough, Weave), and either 3 from Force of Will or 4 from Experimentation.  I'm skipping Hasten because I find that 2-3 FF +rech keeps that +100 up most of the time.

 

Endurance will be a bottleneck, and I will probably need to use an epic pool to address it.  Psionic Mastery gives me endurance help and a snipe.  Done.

 

 

[Troo]

2 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I'd rather smash than manage.

[Uun]

I skipped the T9 on my recent /Nin and went with Unleash Potential and Ageless Radial instead.

 

I wouldn't bother with Acrobatics or the additional -kb IOs. Although Bo Ryaku only provides mag 5 kb protection, it also has kb resistance. I don't recall kb ever being an issue.

[twozerofoxtrot]

Not sure I understand the build philosophy in taking the T9 + Shadow Meld. This isn't a Regen setup, you should be able to reach softcap without compromising. My past Nin build have taken neither and survived handily.

 

Nin is sort of good like that. It just does everything well enough. Except protecting you from KB in the early levels.

 

Also seeing Crit Strikes in Clobber makes me sad. That's the power you want to use when Crit Strikes procs. I've made the argument in the past it's good for a high proc rate and you go right into Crowd Control for a sweep of Crits but having played with both setups in the end I realized I was wrong. CC does well enough on it's own felling chaff. You want that big number for hard targets.

[Yomo Kimyata]

8 minutes ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

Not sure I understand the build philosophy in taking the T9 + Shadow Meld. This isn't a Regen setup, you should be able to reach softcap without compromising. My past Nin build have taken neither and survived handily.

 

Nin is sort of good like that. It just does everything well enough. Except protecting you from KB in the early levels.

 

Also seeing Crit Strikes in Clobber makes me sad. That's the power you want to use when Crit Strikes procs. I've made the argument in the past it's good for a high proc rate and you go right into Crowd Control for a sweep of Crits but having played with both setups in the end I realized I was wrong. CC does well enough on it's own felling chaff. You want that big number for hard targets.

nods.  All of it.

 

 

[Frosticus]

softcap? what about incarnate softcap, or solo'ing starred content?

Retsu+ kyoyo's unique synergy is too good to pass up and lets you push nin into areas of capability that the other def sets struggle to approach without running away, or otherwise mitigating the crash. You can just power thru with nin

 

 

Edited September 13 by Frosticus

[Erratic1]

19 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Endurance will be a bottleneck, and I will probably need to use an epic pool to address it. 

 

Why would Endurance be a bottleneck on a set with an endurance regain power?

[Erratic1]

8 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

Also seeing Crit Strikes in Clobber makes me sad. That's the power you want to use when Crit Strikes procs. I've made the argument in the past it's good for a high proc rate and you go right into Crowd Control for a sweep of Crits but having played with both setups in the end I realized I was wrong. CC does well enough on it's own felling chaff. You want that big number for hard targets.

 

Since @Troo's build does not have Crit Strikes in Clobber and mine does, I am going to guess this is directed at me.

 

It has been enough time since I put together the build the memory of the whys of the choices are lost to me. At a guess, there was probably some considerations of what bonuses are more easily had from which power categories and then some consideration of the estimated proc rate and which slotting would make the proc most reliably invoked. 

[twozerofoxtrot]

2 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

Since @Troo's build does not have Crit Strikes in Clobber and mine does, I am going to guess this is directed at me.

 

 It wasn't. I didn't look at your build. Just didn't pay close enough attention. 

[Troo]

14 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

Not sure I understand the build philosophy in taking the T9 + Shadow Meld. This isn't a Regen setup, you should be able to reach softcap without compromising. My past Nin build have taken neither and survived handily.

 

You are correct. I am definitely looking through the lenses of a regen player.

I was thinking by using the T9 I could focus on damage output and some proc-age, at least until I get the hang of it.

 

14 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

Also seeing Crit Strikes in Clobber makes me sad. That's the power you want to use when Crit Strikes procs. I've made the argument in the past it's good for a high proc rate and you go right into Crowd Control for a sweep of Crits but having played with both setups in the end I realized I was wrong. CC does well enough on it's own felling chaff. You want that big number for hard targets.

 

Thank you for this.

@Erratic1 I used just the proc not the whole set.

 

[Yomo Kimyata]

20 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Why would Endurance be a bottleneck on a set with an endurance regain power?

Two reasons from my gameplay experience:

 

1.  War Mace is endurance heavy, even well slotted.  Also consider you can slot three AOE with FF +rech and that is a never ending cavalcade of joy that sucks your blue bar dry.

 

2.  Ninjitsu’s endurance regain power kind of sucks.  Yeah, it’s a lot better than nothing, but it’s a click that only affects you and can at realistically best give you 60% of your endurance back every 25-30 seconds.  Unless I want to assign five extra slots to health and stamina, which I do not!

[Frosticus]

Kyoyo gives me equivalent of about 3 eps. I find it fantastic. 

[Erratic1]

2 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

1.  War Mace is endurance heavy, even well slotted.  Also consider you can slot three AOE with FF +rech and that is a never ending cavalcade of joy that sucks your blue bar dry.

 

I can definitely see this. 😁

[Thraxen]

I have a Titan/nin and I didn’t even take the end power. Never runs outta end. I did take ageless but it was more for the recharge and ddr. 

[Azari]

I would do axe/ninjitsu/psi mastery

[SeraphimKensai]

On 9/15/2024 at 2:12 AM, Thraxen said:

I have a Titan/nin and I didn’t even take the end power. Never runs outta end. I did take ageless but it was more for the recharge and ddr. 

I just started one of these today thinking it would be an interesting pairing as it's something that can't otherwise be done and I happen to be watching Black Clover currently. I am planning to push it to incarnate soft caps and also plan to go ageless radial for the DDR and Recharge.

[Thraxen]

14 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

I just started one of these today thinking it would be an interesting pairing as it's something that can't otherwise be done and I happen to be watching Black Clover currently. I am planning to push it to incarnate soft caps and also plan to go ageless radial for the DDR and Recharge.

It’s a lot of fun. Mine is a ninja that carries around Excalibur. I have perma hasten on mine. Getting defense that high might make hasten hard if you’re going that route. 

[SeraphimKensai]

17 minutes ago, Thraxen said:

It’s a lot of fun. Mine is a ninja that carries around Excalibur. I have perma hasten on mine. Getting defense that high might make hasten hard if you’re going that route. 

A ninja with Excalibur sounds interesting.

 

I'm likely to use the Purgatory Sword, but otherwise still working on the character concept. I made the toon with a placeholder costume that I plan to revisit later as I wasn't satisfied with the costume. I might rename too, still haven't decided one way or the other.

 

Build wise the numbers look pretty good for what I want out of the build overall and it has some decent utility for healing/sustain. I don't really see Blinding Powder working into my concept so I'll likely skip it with the overall build as it also doesn't help getting as many swings as I can with momentum;.however, it could be useful for using on a group guarding a glowie if one just wants to click and finish for maximizing speed.

 

 

[Yomo Kimyata]

One of the things I enjoy about this game is learning new things, and sometimes that thing is that I was looking at things in a different way than perhaps others were looking.

 

I have never liked defense-based armors (Ninjitsu, Super Reflexes, Energy Aura, Stone Armor -- somehow I'm ok with Ice Armor).  What I have telling myself for years is that I don't like them because it is easy mode -- you soft cap your defenses and there you are.  However, I've been spending time on my WM/Ninjitsu scrapper and finding that dinging 50 and playing at +4/x8 *feels* much more difficult than it does on say, a WM/Bio.  Why would that be so?  I'm softcapped to all relevant defenses so only 1 in 20 blows should be getting through.  And hitting the T9 shouldn't *majorly* affect my survival, since still only 1 in 20 should be getting through, but it really does.  And *smacks forehead* of course, the purple patch.  Before I get level bonuses from T3 incarnates, my effective defense is not 45%, not at all.  And I'm so used to playing multifaceted armor sets that I'm used to proactively healing or boosting my defense or whatever, and not having those tools in pure defense sets are killing me smalls.  

 

Another thing that I forget about incarnates (and I don't pursue them on all my 50s) is that lots of my endurance woes go away once I hit Radial Musculature and Ageless.  So I do see what some of you are saying that I'm overbuilding for endurance, but I'm overbuilding for my *future* endurance.  As of now, I'm firmly in what I consider the sweet spot, but once I T3 I suspect I'll respec again.

[Erratic1]

Are you only relying on Defense and have not done anything with your resistances?