Impact of Orbiting Death

[Black_Assassin]

Hi all,

 

I am currently making use of a changeling WS build however am trying to ascertain the usefulness of Orbiting Death.

 

The current attacks that I am using means I am only swapping down into human to fire Eclipse, H-Mire, Gravitic Emanation, and Stygian Circle. 

 

I am trying to fit Gravity Well back into my build and the only place I can pull slots from (without affecting my ST or AOE powers) is Orbiting Death. 

 

What would be the best way to test to see if it's doing any kind of heavy lifting for me? I currently have it slotted with Arma/Oblit/Scirocco/Erad procs/PvP-Res/50+5 dam

 

New slotting would only be base slot. So either the 50+5dam or the -Res maybe. 

 

thanks in advance for any insight you may have on this or if you already know the answer.

MF'ing Warshade New.mbd

Edited September 18 by Black_Assassin
Build added for reference :)

[Dungeoness Eloora]

Well step 1, if you want cold, hard data to agonize over, would be to install and use Cyclops on your game logs, https://github.com/PaulBenHill/cyclops. This will give you a breakdown of the damage you do in a given combat session, and by which skills (and procs).

 

I will say that during my (admittedly lazy and often unbothered) recent bouts of play on my Warshade, Orbitting Death, which I have slotted with 3 pieces Superior Essence Transfer and 3 damage procs, sat very close to the top of the total damage list, behind Nova Det but ahead of Dwarf Mire. Mind you, this is without counting its proc damage, which always appears separate in the log and the parse table. The only proc it has that isn't also slotted in DMire is Scirocco's. When I merge OD damage with Scirocco's total damage in the parse table, their combination alone put them at the top of my total damage list.

 

This is obviously one person's limited experience. It was a target rich environment, but not a hardmode or anything. YMMV, but my bottom line is I would absolutely not consider robbing the practically free, passive and substantial damage (potential) from OD to give to Gravity Well, which is a very deprecated skill in the current infinity meta due to its slow activation time.

 

There are other choices that I've made with my build that go against the grain, but I'll let some others chime in here now.

[Black_Assassin]

23 hours ago, Dungeoness Eloora said:

Well step 1, if you want cold, hard data to agonize over, would be to install and use Cyclops on your game logs, https://github.com/PaulBenHill/cyclops. This will give you a breakdown of the damage you do in a given combat session, and by which skills (and procs).

 

I will say that during my (admittedly lazy and often unbothered) recent bouts of play on my Warshade, Orbitting Death, which I have slotted with 3 pieces Superior Essence Transfer and 3 damage procs, sat very close to the top of the total damage list, behind Nova Det but ahead of Dwarf Mire. Mind you, this is without counting its proc damage, which always appears separate in the log and the parse table. The only proc it has that isn't also slotted in DMire is Scirocco's. When I merge OD damage with Scirocco's total damage in the parse table, their combination alone put them at the top of my total damage list.

 

This is obviously one person's limited experience. It was a target rich environment, but not a hardmode or anything. YMMV, but my bottom line is I would absolutely not consider robbing the practically free, passive and substantial damage (potential) from OD to give to Gravity Well, which is a very deprecated skill in the current infinity meta due to its slow activation time.

 

There are other choices that I've made with my build that go against the grain, but I'll let some others chime in here now.

 

 

What do you mean by the last part about the meta etc? I have been away from the game for some time and in the intervening time period all this hardmode stuff has happened. My only experience of this was a 1* ITF about 2-3 months after that was first released and a standard Aeon.

 

I have decided to stick with Orbiting Death for the time being. I did some manual skimming of half a maps worth of Battle Maiden mission and it seemed that the procs were firing well enough so I just decided to stick rather than twist. 

[tidge]

I passed on Orbiting Death. It will need accuracy slotting to hit +N enemies; against even-level enemies it probably behaves acceptably. It should also be a poor source of %damage from %procs, because of the "toggle-tick-recharge" factor. Warshades aren't great DPS machines (compared to other AT) so this could be an "every little bit helps" situation, MMV. IMO I didn't have the slots (or power choice) to make this worthwhile.

 

I also passed on Gravity Well. Because this is a single-target, it was another power pick that didn't really fit my build's theory, nor did I have the slots to get either a nice set bonus nor try to trick out. I also didn't think my Warshade needed a single-target control.

 

Of the two, I would go with Orbiting Death, but I wouldn't %proc it without doing some serious testing.

[Wispur]

7 hours ago, Black_Assassin said:

 

 

What do you mean by the last part about the meta etc? I have been away from the game for some time and in the intervening time period all this hardmode stuff has happened. My only experience of this was a 1* ITF about 2-3 months after that was first released and a standard Aeon.

 

I have decided to stick with Orbiting Death for the time being. I did some manual skimming of half a maps worth of Battle Maiden mission and it seemed that the procs were firing well enough so I just decided to stick rather than twist. 

In this particular case, when they're talking about the Infinity Meta, they mean the current top-performing builds for Warshades.
These builds use the Changeling Keybinds to animation cancel form attacks.
And the builds themselves use only Nova and Dwarf attacks to maximize damage. 

It's called Infinity because you basically never stop pressing buttons as fast as your fingers can move.

[Black_Assassin]

2 hours ago, Wispur said:

In this particular case, when they're talking about the Infinity Meta, they mean the current top-performing builds for Warshades.
These builds use the Changeling Keybinds to animation cancel form attacks.
And the builds themselves use only Nova and Dwarf attacks to maximize damage. 

It's called Infinity because you basically never stop pressing buttons as fast as your fingers can move.

 

 

OH I see, its just a naming thing i wasnt aware of then. Well I am currently using changeling anyway so that's all fine 🙂

 

I still not quite sure how GWell isn't being looked at, surely having that in the single target rotation is beneficial? Can house a purple hold damage proc and 4 others and be up roughly every ~7s

 

it is the longest cast time, but only slightly more than dwarf drain (2.07s vs 1.93s)

 

if there is some maths that I've missed out on here, feel free to educate me. The numbers get confusing 😛 

[tidge]

2 hours ago, Black_Assassin said:

 

 

OH I see, its just a naming thing i wasnt aware of then. Well I am currently using changeling anyway so that's all fine 🙂

 

I still not quite sure how GWell isn't being looked at, surely having that in the single target rotation is beneficial? Can house a purple hold damage proc and 4 others and be up roughly every ~7s

 

it is the longest cast time, but only slightly more than dwarf drain (2.07s vs 1.93s)

 

if there is some maths that I've missed out on here, feel free to educate me. The numbers get confusing 😛 

 

5 procs in a power doesn't leave much room for Accuracy slotting. I wouldn't slot more than two %damage in it: Unbreakable Guard and Gladiator's Net, dealer's choice on which of them get used for set bonuses (I almost always pick 3x Gladiator's Net)

[Koopak]

2 hours ago, Black_Assassin said:

 

 

OH I see, its just a naming thing i wasnt aware of then. Well I am currently using changeling anyway so that's all fine 🙂

 

I still not quite sure how GWell isn't being looked at, surely having that in the single target rotation is beneficial? Can house a purple hold damage proc and 4 others and be up roughly every ~7s

 

it is the longest cast time, but only slightly more than dwarf drain (2.07s vs 1.93s)

 

if there is some maths that I've missed out on here, feel free to educate me. The numbers get confusing 😛 

I need to format this all but if you are using 'infinity' changling or whatever people have settled on for the name then Gwell is not going to cut it, it cant because when executed to its fullest all form attacks in your rotation have a dpa over 150 before any damage enhancements. Gwell has a base dpa of less than 50

As for Orbit, its just not on reliably enough, it IS more damage than youd do without it, but not a huge amount, id only include it when hard minmaxing.

Edited September 20 by Koopak

[Wispur]

15 hours ago, Black_Assassin said:

 

 

OH I see, its just a naming thing i wasnt aware of then. Well I am currently using changeling anyway so that's all fine 🙂

 

I still not quite sure how GWell isn't being looked at, surely having that in the single target rotation is beneficial? Can house a purple hold damage proc and 4 others and be up roughly every ~7s

 

it is the longest cast time, but only slightly more than dwarf drain (2.07s vs 1.93s)

 

if there is some maths that I've missed out on here, feel free to educate me. The numbers get confusing 😛 

Since you can fire off 2-3 attacks a second with Changeling, most of which are AOE's, and GWell is single target AND has a long cast time, it'd have to do absolutely insane damage to be worthwhile, like at least 5x more than a Nova Blast. 
Because in the same time you cast one GWell, you could have cast between 4-6 other attacks.

You give up way too much damage in a changeling rotation for it to even be considered.
It definitely does not hit that hard, so you're better off just not using it and applying those slots to attacks that are more useful.
 

Edited September 20 by Wispur

[Dungeoness Eloora]

21 hours ago, Black_Assassin said:

 

 

OH I see, its just a naming thing i wasnt aware of then. Well I am currently using changeling anyway so that's all fine 🙂

 

I still not quite sure how GWell isn't being looked at, surely having that in the single target rotation is beneficial? Can house a purple hold damage proc and 4 others and be up roughly every ~7s

 

it is the longest cast time, but only slightly more than dwarf drain (2.07s vs 1.93s)

 

if there is some maths that I've missed out on here, feel free to educate me. The numbers get confusing 😛 

 

I don't consider dwarf drain to be a worthwhile attack in the chain either, and I don't slot it or use it as such.

 

And I'm not sure what everyone considers to be worthwhile when considering what percentage of their total damage a skill must contribute, but here's a quick Trapdoor run at +4/8.

Incarnates: Intuition radial, Musc radial, Ion radial

Toggles: Orbiting death at 33% acc and 117% damage boost, respectively, + 3 procs, and Tactics

Parser: Cyclops

 

A very target rich Arachnos mission with several meaty bosses and an EB at the end, though takes under 10 minutes to complete. As you can see in the first image, Orbiting Death sits comfortably high in the total damage output ranking, among the other aoe heavy lifters, doing about 5% of my total damage. And yes, obviously its accuracy is terribly low compared to every other attack, which I should mention are all heavily proc slotted, not significantly slotted for accuracy, yet perform just fine.

 

Ah, but that's OD by itself. Here's how it looks when you merge its line with the 3 procs slotted into it. Obliteration, Scirocco's and Eradication activated 39, 39 and 32 times, respectively.

 

Now the percentage of damage that OD has contributed, all in, is 10%, with Quasar being the only skill still edging it out. I, personally, find that to be a worthwhile contribution that shuffling 5 slots and 1 power pick off into something else would have a difficult time matching.

[Black_Assassin]

23 hours ago, Wispur said:

Since you can fire off 2-3 attacks a second with Changeling, most of which are AOE's, and GWell is single target AND has a long cast time, it'd have to do absolutely insane damage to be worthwhile, like at least 5x more than a Nova Blast. 
Because in the same time you cast one GWell, you could have cast between 4-6 other attacks.

You give up way too much damage in a changeling rotation for it to even be considered.
It definitely does not hit that hard, so you're better off just not using it and applying those slots to attacks that are more useful.
 

 

 

2-3 a second then I clearly need to practice way more XD. Could also be a ping issue, I'm on Torch from the UK, and according to /netgraph 1 in game, im sitting at 200ping. 

 

17 hours ago, Dungeoness Eloora said:

 

I don't consider dwarf drain to be a worthwhile attack in the chain either, and I don't slot it or use it as such.

 

And I'm not sure what everyone considers to be worthwhile when considering what percentage of their total damage a skill must contribute, but here's a quick Trapdoor run at +4/8.

Incarnates: Intuition radial, Musc radial, Ion radial

Toggles: Orbiting death at 33% acc and 117% damage boost, respectively, + 3 procs, and Tactics

Parser: Cyclops

 

A very target rich Arachnos mission with several meaty bosses and an EB at the end, though takes under 10 minutes to complete. As you can see in the first image, Orbiting Death sits comfortably high in the total damage output ranking, among the other aoe heavy lifters, doing about 5% of my total damage. And yes, obviously its accuracy is terribly low compared to every other attack, which I should mention are all heavily proc slotted, not significantly slotted for accuracy, yet perform just fine.

 

Ah, but that's OD by itself. Here's how it looks when you merge its line with the 3 procs slotted into it. Obliteration, Scirocco's and Eradication activated 39, 39 and 32 times, respectively.

 

Now the percentage of damage that OD has contributed, all in, is 10%, with Quasar being the only skill still edging it out. I, personally, find that to be a worthwhile contribution that shuffling 5 slots and 1 power pick off into something else would have a difficult time matching.

 

Interested to know your slotting on Quasar. Is that just flat damage, have you got procs in it? I currently plan to Put 5 Arma in (no proc as thats currently in Orbiting Death) I found space for a KB>KD so i can start leveraging it more now. 

 

 

thanks all for the replies, its certainly educational ❤️

 

[Dungeoness Eloora]

My Quasar slotting is 5 set Armageddon with the proc and KD conversion, so the proc adds another 3% to its own total as well. For content where the KB is irrelevant, I'm considering swapping the Arma proc into OD, since Eradication underperforms there in a lot of testing. It will almost certainly contribute more in a skill that is more often used.

[Black_Assassin]

2 hours ago, Dungeoness Eloora said:

My Quasar slotting is 5 set Armageddon with the proc and KD conversion, so the proc adds another 3% to its own total as well. For content where the KB is irrelevant, I'm considering swapping the Arma proc into OD, since Eradication underperforms there in a lot of testing. It will almost certainly contribute more in a skill that is more often used.

 

 

I did some rejigging in the intervening time and settled on current:

 

Level 6: Orbiting Death
(6) Superior Essence Transfer: Accuracy/Damage - IO:50
(36) Superior Essence Transfer: Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime - IO:50
(36) Superior Essence Transfer: RechargeTime/Global Heal - IO:50
(37) Obliteration: Chance for Smashing Damage - IO:50
(37) Eradication: Chance for Energy Damage - IO:30
(37) Scirocco's Dervish: Chance of Damage(Lethal) - IO:50

 

Level 26: Quasar
(26) Armageddon: Damage - IO:50
(43) Armageddon: Damage/Recharge - IO:50
(43) Armageddon: Damage/Recharge/Accuracy - IO:50
(45) Armageddon: Recharge/Accuracy - IO:50
(45) Armageddon: Damage/Endurance - IO:50

 

Level 20: Black Dwarf Mire
(20) HO - Nucleolus Exposure
(25) Obliteration: Chance for Smashing Damage - IO:50
(25) Eradication: Chance for Energy Damage - IO:30
(27) Fury of the Gladiator: Chance for Res Debuff - IO:50
(27) Ice Mistral's Torment: Chance for Cold Damage - IO:50
(29) Armageddon: Chance for Fire Damage - IO:50

 

 

decided to move the proc to the DMire as, whilst its only a 58% proc rate, im firing it in a group every 6s and its hitting lots of enemies YMMV. 

[Dungeoness Eloora]

That slotting looks mostly fine, though I'd suggest prioritizing end reduction and accuracy, followed by damage, in OD. The recharge/global heal proc serves little benefit being slotted in that power (other than the global), and would be better utilized as part of the second 3 set in a skill like Sunless Mire.