So why no balance pass on Halloween EBs after 2 years?

[mechahamham]

This is the 3rd Halloween these guys have been active. I love 'em dearly, but they are a source of frustration for a lot of players. Apparently they were supposed to originally spawn only for groups, but so far as I can tell we've never heard if that was still the plan or if that's been scuttled. If they're supposed to be out for all 25+ players regardless of AT or team size, they are simply too far out of balance to be appropriate. Their power combinations have too much 'insta-kill' potential. Of course they can't one-shot a character, but they can reliably two-shot a LOT of characters.

 

Right now, I'm telling players who cannot solo them that getting an Ouro mission that bumps them down to 24 is a workaround, but that's not ideal for many reasons.

 

This is being unfun for many, and the special event should be a source of fun rather than frustration. As much as I love the EBs, something has to be done here.

[Glacier Peak]

I don't want to see any changes to these enemies. 

[mechahamham]

8 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

I don't want to see any changes to these enemies. 

 

That's not really an option, though.

 

Right now, they're not appropriate for solo players, yet solo players do not have a way to avoid them.

 

Just because I like being trounced in combat doesn't mean that I can expect every other player to enjoy the same thing. I can't ethically deny players the fun of the event just because I like it being too hard.

 

The mechanic was put in the game in an incomplete state and was never finished, probably for the same 'We don't have as much free time after the Pandemic' reason that a lot of projects have run into. However, it's still incomplete. It either needs to be completed, given that 'only for teams' treatment, rebalanced, or, and I sincerely hope this isn't the answer, removed until it can be fixed or rebalanced. It's causing people grief and punishing them rather than giving them a fun time.

[Glacier Peak]

6 minutes ago, mechahamham said:

Right now, they're not appropriate for solo players, yet solo players do not have a way to avoid them.

They are appropriate for solo players. Solo players can avoid them.

 

9 minutes ago, mechahamham said:

It's causing people grief and punishing them rather than giving them a fun time.

I disagree. It's fun, exciting, challenging, and rewarding (×5 the XP/Inf of a normal Elite Boss).

[tidge]

 

--------Police drones a that-a-way ----->

 

[Bionic_Flea]

I was soloing them today on my new blaster.  Yes, sometimes they killed me.  They are tough EBs.  This was on a level 50.  I am sure that they are extra hard if you are in your 30s.  That may be difficult, but as stated, you could run away, or get friends, or use some temp powers, inspirations, etc.

 

That said, I am not opposed to them being restricted to teams or to certain levels.  I just don't think it is necessary.

[mechahamham]

25 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

They are appropriate for solo players

 

How is a inv/ss tank with strong poison debuffs in any way appropriate for solo players?

 

25 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Solo players can avoid them.

 

Other than the Ouro-based workaround, how? Trick or Treat doesn't respect notoriety settings and never has.

 

17 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I was soloing them today on my new blaster.  Yes, sometimes they killed me.  They are tough EBs.  This was on a level 50.  I am sure that they are extra hard if you are in your 30s.  That may be difficult, but as stated, you could run away, or get friends, or use some temp powers, inspirations, etc.

 

Inspiration loading is the way I deal with them, and I keep breakfrees on me. However, the one-two punch of being held or terrorized and then getting KOd happens too quickly for a lot of players to react to.

 

17 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

That said, I am not opposed to them being restricted to teams or to certain levels.  I just don't think it is necessary.

 

Restricted to teams is what I *want* to happen, but I'd also love if the ToT spawns respected noteriety settings.

 

Right now, the onus of the workaround is on players who are trying to avoid them. They have to reduce their own level to 24 or lower. That burden should be on players like me instead, who do want to face them while solo. I should have a non-participating team member with me or something like.

 

-- Edit --

 

Another point is that we're all experienced players here. The EBs are challenging for us, even at max level. We can't expect every player to be that experienced or at max level. Those who join us here on Homecoming for the sake of event will likely be 25 or by the end of it and be running into what will be for them, brick walls.

Edited October 3 by mechahamham

[Hedgefund]

If there's some means of allowing soloers to opt out of these EBs, fine, whatever.  I absolutely would strongly object to being denied the opportunity to solo them though by some global change to deny their spawning for all soloers though.  I rather enjoy these fights.

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, mechahamham said:

22 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

They are appropriate for solo players

 

How is a inv/ss tank with strong poison debuffs in any way appropriate for solo players?

The same way enemies like Protean are appropriate for solo players. Mobs are not tailored to specific player's character builds, solo or not.

 

3 minutes ago, mechahamham said:

23 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Solo players can avoid them.

 

Other than the Ouro-based workaround, how? Trick or Treat doesn't respect notoriety settings and never has.

By running away. There is a delay when the monsters spawn and exit the building. If you see one you can't handle, you run away. And if it is particularly problematic, then you ToT near drones.

 

4 minutes ago, mechahamham said:

16 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I was soloing them today on my new blaster.  Yes, sometimes they killed me.  They are tough EBs.  This was on a level 50.  I am sure that they are extra hard if you are in your 30s.  That may be difficult, but as stated, you could run away, or get friends, or use some temp powers, inspirations, etc.

 

Inspiration loading is the way I deal with them, and I keep breakfrees on me. However, the one-two punch of being held or terrorized and then getting KOd happens too quickly for a lot of players to react to.

Then they should take precautions like ToT'ing near another team or drones, stocking up on inspirations, or by clicking the door and then fleeing until they can safely check the spawn.

 

5 minutes ago, mechahamham said:

but I'd also love if the ToT spawns respected noteriety settings.

Check the Halloween Elite Bosses thread for why that can't happen.

 

6 minutes ago, mechahamham said:

Right now, the onus of the workaround is on players who are trying to avoid them.

Yeah, that is how it is supposed to be. There is safety in numbers and if you choose to not join others for that safety, then the onus is on you to manage.

 

7 minutes ago, mechahamham said:

That burden should be on players like me instead, who do want to face them while solo. I should have a non-participating team member with me or something like.

Then offer in Broadcast to ToT near solo ToT'ers so you can help them should an EB appear.

[Glacier Peak]

 

8 minutes ago, mechahamham said:

How is a inv/ss tank with strong poison debuffs in any way appropriate for solo players?

Solo players can use Inspirations.

 

Solo players can summon pets.

 

Solo players can use temporary powers to increase their attributes.

 

Solo players can attack, then retreat, then attack.

 

Solo players can invite other players.

 

Solo players can learn from their experiences and use counters to the enemy in the next fight. 

 

8 minutes ago, mechahamham said:

Other than the Ouro-based workaround, how? Trick or Treat doesn't respect notoriety settings and never has.

Solo players can move to a safe location.

[mechahamham]

29 minutes ago, Hedgefund said:

If there's some means of allowing soloers to opt out of these EBs, fine, whatever.

 

Ideally the way to accomplish that would be to have the ToT spawn respect notoriety. That may be more work than restricting them to spawn only for teams, however, but I by no means know the code in question.

Edited October 3 by mechahamham

[lemming]

7 minutes ago, Hedgefund said:

If there's some means of allowing soloers to opt out of these EBs, fine, whatever.  I absolutely would strongly object to being denied the opportunity to solo them though by some global change to deny their spawning for all soloers though.  I rather enjoy these fights.

It would be nice if you said "No Bosses", it would take that under consideration.

 

Interesting, that while solo, it looks like notoriety settings are ignored, while if you join a league, we're told to +4/x8 so that we're fighting level 54.   I think there's a different mechanism going on.

[mechahamham]

4 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Solo players can use Inspirations.

 

Solo players can summon pets.

 

Solo players can use temporary powers to increase their attributes.

 

Solo players can attack, then retreat, then attack.

 

What you're describing here is a level of advanced play that it's unfair to *require* for the event.

 

I know how to inspiration load and kite. I know how long the different powers last. I know how to use empowerment stations to boost myself and cover holes in my defenses. I will also happily tell others about these and more. I take a bit of pride in trying to be as helpful as I can. Making all these things *required* for enjoying the event is pretty malicious.

 

9 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Solo players can move to a safe location.

 

This is sticking with me as just not true a significant amount of the time. Ancient Vampire, for example, holds and then melees players down often in a Hold/Hit/Hit cadence frequently mixing in Life Drain. Hallow Reaper will terrorize and likewise destroy players, albeit not as quickly. Arisen Mummy often leads with poison debuffs, then uses Uppercut and Knockout Blow, effectively two-shotting many characters, even if they're able to start running from him.

 

I think players are most likely to be able to survive running from Spectral Werewolf and Crone Matriarch, but the three I mentioned can prevent even running to the police drones. This is exacerbated since the EBs tend to get a free hit in due to the invulnerability period at the beginning of spawns.

[Glacier Peak]

2 minutes ago, mechahamham said:

What you're describing here is a level of advanced play that it's unfair to *require* for the event.

Any solo player can do any of the things I offered as much as they want at any Level and any amount of familiarity with the game. There is no requirement to do them. They are options, should a solo player desire to use them.

[Uun]

At lvl 50 the EBs are challenging but definitely manageable solo. At lvl 25 (natural, not exemped) they're much harder, primarily because your build isn't completely slotted. About the only change I would support would be increasing the level at which they start spawning from 25 to 35.

[Shin Magmus]

Pop some inspirations, overpower them and win anyways even as a solo player?  That's about all the advice I can give you.

[ShimmerDoll]

Solo players want all the badges. All the EBS are fine solo except the mummy. He's overtuned. I have videos of fighting them on the official server (triumph) when a lot of people played, they were much more manageable (solo) and that was when the game was live. Now it's an older game and MMOs in general have different criteria, I play a lot of them.  Maybe 10 people are on at the hours I can play, on server I play on, most don't even speak English so I can't communicate BUT I am a solo player by nature. I have duo'd the halloween event and the mummy can be a problem then too, especially on lower characters. You get killed before you can react sometimes and that doesn't even happen to me with GMS.  With sets and all that it's easy and that's probably where glacier peak is coming from, but I don't have sets on 99% of my characters. Most aren't even 50.

 

It's one enemy in this group, just one that is the issue (The Mummy). I don't know why he can't be tuned just a bit.  This is a Halloween event that happens once a year and it's supposed to be fun, have a heart. It's not like these enemies are out all the time. I don't know why anyone would want to gatekeep on this one enemy?  Even with inspirations the mummy is a pain in the ass.  At low levels it's hard to carry enough since you're restricted (build related pre 50) and come on, ridiculous suggestions at times I see on these forums. I can defeat the other EBs in this event without inspirations (solo), except this mummy one. He does too much toxic damage out of the door on top of the knockout blow it's a 1 shot on a tank. 

Edited October 4 by ShimmerDoll

[Vanden]

On 10/3/2024 at 4:56 PM, mechahamham said:

That's not really an option, though.

Oh you might be surprised how often changing nothing is very much an option.

[Luminara]

4 hours ago, ShimmerDoll said:

I have videos of fighting them on the official server (triumph) when a lot of people played

 

It wasn't created until 2022.

[Shin Magmus]

8 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

It wasn't created until 2022.

This is a fun forum.

[tidge]

20 hours ago, Uun said:

At lvl 50 the EBs are challenging but definitely manageable solo.

 

This is definitely AT-dependent, and to a lesser extent dependent on the attack typing of the players' character. I've played on level 50 Tankers that were solo ToTing in Peregrine that simply dragged some Elite Bosses door-to-door because they'd take more time to defeat than a Giant Monster.

[Glacier Peak]

19 hours ago, ShimmerDoll said:

I have videos of fighting them on the official server (triumph) when a lot of people played, they were much more manageable (solo) and that was when the game was live.

I think you're misremembering, as another poster pointed out. 

 

[Glacier Peak]

These elite bosses will only spawn if you are above level 25. If you do get one solo and don't want to fight it, you can simply run away and they will despawn automatically after 60 seconds.

Trick-or-Treat enemies have a 3-second safety window after they spawn before they can do anything, giving you ample time to escape if it's not a fight you want to take.

 

This addition was meant to make Trick-or-Treating in teams or leagues more engaging/lucrative/rewarding.

[Rudra]

6 hours ago, tidge said:

On 10/4/2024 at 7:55 AM, Uun said:

At lvl 50 the EBs are challenging but definitely manageable solo.

 

This is definitely AT-dependent, and to a lesser extent dependent on the attack typing of the players' character. I've played on level 50 Tankers that were solo ToTing in Peregrine that simply dragged some Elite Bosses door-to-door because they'd take more time to defeat than a Giant Monster.

You are still managing them though. You are managing them by ignoring them and weathering their attempts to kill you as opposed to managing them by stomping them into the ground, but you are still solo managing them.

 

Edit: And if you have a character that runs from the EBs when they appear for any reason, then you are managing them by escaping and waiting for them to go away. So would still be solo managing them. Unless a player is playing through a defeat all mission, there is no need to expend the effort to defeat some enemies if you don't want to.

 

Edited October 5 by Rudra

[Ukase]

On 10/3/2024 at 3:56 PM, mechahamham said:

That's not really an option, though.

 

Right now, they're not appropriate for solo players, yet solo players do not have a way to avoid them.

 

Not an option? Sure it is. These guys are nothing but big bags of HP. As long as you have a break free, they pose almost no threat. And this is just my own anecdotal evidence of soloing them with Defenders, Dominators, Controllers, Corruptors, Blasters, Brutes, Stalkers, Tanks, Soldiers of Arachnos (Bane), PBs and Warshades. 

They are not hard. You just have to be proactive and hit them hard and fast. I'm sorry, but they were easy for me. And I'm not even one of those uber 'leet" players. I'm just slightly better than mediocre.