Update Radio/Paper Missions

[Kaika]

It's very odd to me that one of the most popular activities in this game has basically gone unchanged since it's implementation. Radios and Paper missions have alot of issues that people have just kinda accepted as part of the process, that seem like they could be fix and made way better, while still not really changing the role they fill and the experience they give. As the games main source of simple endlessly repeatable missions, for a-lot of people, radios missions are one of the main ways they play this game. I'm mainly looking at these through a lens of a level 50 hero radios, but these updates could apply to all levels and both side

 

• Significantly increase the amount of enemy groups that you can find in missions.

 

This is the single biggest issue I have with Radios, is that they represent so little of the game , with only 4 groups at 50 regularly appearing on either side. Council, Arachnos(Hero), Carnival, and Circle of Thorns, Malta(Villian). With the occasional more unique small missions that has a different group, like Malta on hero side. At level 50 there are a TON of enemy groups that could have missions added to these radios.

 

• Freakshow
• Malta ( Hero)
• Sky Raiders
• Family
• Nemesis
• Crey
• Longbow
• Wyvern
• Knives
• 5th Column
• Arachnos (Villian)
• Devouring earth

I'm sure there are more at 50 that could also fit without being a lore stretch or requiring more then a bit of ad lib work in the mission description.

 

• Change cave missions to the tunnels map*

The blue caves (or tan if you are villian side) are just awful to get, with many groups opting to skip them entirely, and groups that don't often see their party suddenly evaporate, after too many. The small and cluttered corridors get in the way of every travel power, groups are spread out making them actually easier to take out, but take more time. Pathing is an absolute mess making enemies often spend half their time running in circles, and making trying to escort a NPC in these a nightmare, and I think nothing needs to really by said about the nightmare that is the layer cake room. The OG devs stopped added these fairly halfway through the original games life span and while it makes sense to retain them in older content, I feel radios shouldn't classify as that, due to how they are presented and the role they fill.

 

*Edit: Snarky made a rather good suggestion here,

Quote

if the choices on there were increased to 5 with a clue as to what map they are on (hint, i can almost always guess...) then that would be nice

I think it's a good compromise to still have caves if you enjoy  them, but have a easier way to avoid cave (or any disliked map). Having it be a hint gives a reason to actually read some of the mission descriptions.

 

• Add a intended and official way to re-roll mission

If you are gonna keep abandoning missions to be able to re-roll the missions in the game, just add a "Keep listening/read" option that just re-rolls the option for you. If this is going to remain a thing it should be an intended game mechanic and something that shouldn't have to be told to you by someone tired of fighting carnies because its all the lead is getting and they don't realize they can do this.

 

• Let us run radios in every zone.

At the moment running tips in PI is rather annoying due to their being like 3 instances all filled with lag due to ToT, and I suspect a reason you don't see as many red side paper missions (aside from it being red side) is because Grandville is AWFUL for this sort of thing. I can understand not allowing it in a zone like AP, but it would be nice if we could run these at any level over the zones min level in any main zone.

 

• Let us auto skip bank missions

Just a QoL thing, many groups don't want to bother with bank missions, as they are sorta their own thing that plays very differently from the rest of the experience. It would be nice if a option to "Always skip Mayhem/Safegaurd missions" or something to that effect was added to Null the gull, to just prevent the need to run to the detective ever 5 missions to say "hi" if the player isn't interested.

 

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I want to add that I understand tip missions solve alot of these issues, but I feel they are a rather different thing all together. They have a more narrative focus and heavily vary goals can lead to a standstill when the group lead doesn't realize they need to talk to Maelstorm standing on the other side of the cave, invisible. It can also be fairly common to just run out of them. I think both systems have their place, but radios are just heavily in needs of updates.

 

Edited October 28 by Kaika

[megaericzero]

Neat ideas. No strong opinions, personally.

 

Perhaps as a simpler solution for people who don't want to do mayhems/safeguards is to just have the radio/paper continue providing missions even when the broker/detective's meter is full. Maybe with a disclaimer at the top saying "[broker/detective] wants to talk to you" so it doesn't go over new players' heads.

[Kaika]

1 minute ago, megaericzero said:

Neat ideas. No strong opinions, personally.

 

Perhaps as a simpler solution for people who don't want to do mayhems/safeguards is to just have the radio/paper continue providing missions even when the broker/detective's meter is full. Maybe with a disclaimer at the top saying "[broker/detective] wants to talk to you" so it doesn't go over new players' heads.

However they do it, I would just prefer to not have to run to the detective/broker every few missions, it's not a big deal, but its kinda annoying.

[Owl Girl]

am i really the only one that likes cave missions? better than those non-euclidean office spaces imo

[Kaika]

2 minutes ago, Owl Girl said:

am i really the only one that likes cave missions? better than those non-euclidean office spaces imo

 

Honestly I don't mind them on occasion, they definitely are... unique. However I think they are far too frustrating for content designed to be repeatable.

Edited October 8 by Kaika

[mistagoat]

I agree with all this! My solution for the bank missions would be to let us call the Detective. Then you could call him and turn down the bank and I could call him after I complete the bank so I don't have to run back across the zone for the Detective to give me a high 5 and a new contact and I can finally get that "return to contact" mission off my list! It's probably one of those things that can't be changed but a boy can dream!

 

Edited October 8 by mistagoat
grammer

[Triumphant]

2 hours ago, Owl Girl said:

am i really the only one that likes cave missions? better than those non-euclidean office spaces imo

 

What?  No, of course not.  This game has thousands of players.  I'm sure there are probably like... 5 or 6 more people who also like them.  Well, okay, maybe closer to 3 or 4.

[kelika2]

Freakshow appearing on both factions would probably fill the gap Council left behind.  Id love that.

There could also be Portal/Praetorian outbreaks.  I think villains had their knockoff portaltech portal someplace.

 

Maybe a new scanner/contact all together given by someone at portal/villain equivalent so you can get enemy groups from said missions.  even new maps.  freakshow innawoods, werewolves on drecks map, etc

[Chris24601]

One thought I had about level 40+ radio missions would be adding a “Portal Corp Radio” category that sends you to explore various worlds where you could run into many of the one-off mob groups like Council Earth or Psychic Clockwork or Warrior Earth, and so forth… in addition to ones so close they match the existing groups.

 

Redside has a few Portals that could function as their mission doors for Arachnos missions seeking opportunities to exploit from other dimensions.

 

 If the spaghetti code of the existing Radio/Paper missions is too delicate to futz with directly, maybe a semi-clone with new options enabled in it would be a safer way to build.

[Rudra]

25 minutes ago, Chris24601 said:

One thought I had about level 40+ radio missions would be adding a “Portal Corp Radio” category that sends you to explore various worlds where you could run into many of the one-off mob groups like Council Earth or Psychic Clockwork or Warrior Earth, and so forth… in addition to ones so close they match the existing groups.

 

Redside has a few Portals that could function as their mission doors for Arachnos missions seeking opportunities to exploit from other dimensions.

 

 If the spaghetti code of the existing Radio/Paper missions is too delicate to futz with directly, maybe a semi-clone with new options enabled in it would be a safer way to build.

Except that makes no sense. The radios and papers are tracking what is going on in that zone of the city or isles. There is no way for them to be aware of what is going on in other dimensions, let alone provide a means of you getting there.

[Chris24601]

57 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Except that makes no sense. The radios and papers are tracking what is going on in that zone of the city or isles. There is no way for them to be aware of what is going on in other dimensions, let alone provide a means of you getting there.

You misunderstand.

 

I mentioned it as a NEW option (i.e. not from the radio or newspaper), particularly if our devs don’t want to mess with the existing radio/newspaper code.

 

Set it up as a “Portal Corp Volunteers App”  or “Archanos Dimensional Testing Opportunities” uplink (i.e. a contact).

 

This would be a way to implement something like what the OP suggested without having to touch the Radio Mission spaghetti code directly if that would be impractical.

[Rudra]

9 minutes ago, Chris24601 said:

I mentioned it as a NEW option (i.e. not from the radio or newspaper), particularly if our devs don’t want to mess with the existing radio/newspaper code.

Okay, I guess. Personally, I think that should remain the purview of story contacts, but I'm not going to argue against either.

 

(Edit: Though I would be in favor of adding a repeatable missions contact to the Shadow Shard instead, which would be easier to explain. Or refer players to the repeatable missions in Dark Astoria that so far I have never seen a cave map for. However, if the devs decide there should be a repeatable missions contact for dimensions that have been declared off-limits except for emergency situations like Council Empire Earth and Werewolf Earth, or under pseudo-ban like Warrior Earth, that is up to them.)

 

Edited October 8 by Rudra

[Techwright]

22 hours ago, Owl Girl said:

am i really the only one that likes cave missions? better than those non-euclidean office spaces imo

I'm fine with wider caves, like that in the Atta the Troll mission.  Blue is a tad disorienting, but it is the space compression that is the problem. (well that, and the layer-cake room) Design a wider cave tunnel that's blue and I'll likely have no problems with it.  Even throw in a few bottleneck points.  I'll recognize them for the tactical advantage/disadvantage they can be, and I'll be fine with those.

[Razor Cure]

Even if you had the OPTION (dont have to) of doing your 3-5 Radio/Paper missions + Bank with some kind very loose narrative. The person who gets the missions has the option, which then selects the 6 missions from a differ Pool, so they link up somehow. Could be as simple as Stop Archon Max, which then turns into Oh no, the Council got a Responmetron again! The missions could be all one faction (maybe get boring), or a mix, with the final Bank/Safeguard having all Villains/Vandals altered to be the mobs from the missions, sort of link a mini Task Force.

 

[General Idiot]

On 10/9/2024 at 9:31 AM, Rudra said:

Okay, I guess. Personally, I think that should remain the purview of story contacts, but I'm not going to argue against either.

 

(Edit: Though I would be in favor of adding a repeatable missions contact to the Shadow Shard instead, which would be easier to explain. Or refer players to the repeatable missions in Dark Astoria that so far I have never seen a cave map for. However, if the devs decide there should be a repeatable missions contact for dimensions that have been declared off-limits except for emergency situations like Council Empire Earth and Werewolf Earth, or under pseudo-ban like Warrior Earth, that is up to them.)

 

It's perhaps worth noting that there already is a repeatable mission contact in the Shadow Shard. Three of them, in fact.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/General_Hammond

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Dr._Boyd

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Dr._Huxley

 

There used to be a breadcrumb mission from I think any level 40-44 contact that introduced them, like there was for zones like the Hollows, but it got removed and I think now they're in the find contact window or you can just go and talk to them.

 

That said, those missions are ancient and in need of an update just like the rest of the Shadow Shard.

[Super Atom]

Other than the cave thing, yes.

 

Though maybe add a disclaimer on what the map is on the bottom like some kind of recon on the mission so people can avoid caves easier if they so desire.

[Rudra]

48 minutes ago, General Idiot said:

It's perhaps worth noting that there already is a repeatable mission contact in the Shadow Shard. Three of them, in fact.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/General_Hammond

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Dr._Boyd

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Dr._Huxley

 

There used to be a breadcrumb mission from I think any level 40-44 contact that introduced them, like there was for zones like the Hollows, but it got removed and I think now they're in the find contact window or you can just go and talk to them.

 

That said, those missions are ancient and in need of an update just like the rest of the Shadow Shard.

Thanks for the heads up. I'm normally red side, so I don't spend time in the Shard.

[srmalloy]

2 hours ago, General Idiot said:

It's perhaps worth noting that there already is a repeatable mission contact in the Shadow Shard. Three of them, in fact.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Dr._Boyd

And, in fact, Dr. Boyd's repeatable missions ('harvest Kora fruit in a small/medium/large cave') were farmed so hard that the devs back on Live decided that it was necessary to downgrade the inspiration drop from harvesting Kora Fruit to a medium inspiration, rather than the large inspiration it was when the Shadow Shard was rolled out.

[Chris24601]

There’s also a fourth repeatable contact; the guy by the distant zone portal to Cascade that you talk to briefly before going through.

 

He’s unlocked by doing enough missions for the General that he introduces him as a standard contact.

 

Further, while it’s quite long, Quarterfield is a task force (ergo repeatable) with no AVs in it… so it’s soloable (and will be scaled according to your difficulty settings).

 

That said, if they wanted to put resources into revamping it I’d be quite happy (replace the generic soldiers with Vanguard troops), drop the rock with the Nemesis base on it (the models exist from the RWZ mission) somewhere in the Cascades or Chantry (and add some 40+ rocket troopers for Nemesis with the retro jetpacks on their back).

 

Heck, since it’s technically run by what was Vanguard before there was a Vanguard, make it accessible through the RWZ by all alignments and drop a few unscrupulous type contacts in there for a few villain/rogue repeatables (akin to the repeatable alignment contacts in First Ward). That way the effort of updating it would be of benefit to everyone and not just blue side or red side.

[Snarky]

On 10/7/2024 at 4:58 PM, Kaika said:

• Change cave missions to the tunnels map

 

• Add a intended and official way to re-roll mission

 

• Let us run radios in every zone.

 

• Let us auto skip bank missions

 

 

so....   NEVER delete content.  EVER.  So, you do not like Cave Maps.  That is a YOU statement.  Sucks to be YOU.

 

There is an easy way to re-roll mission.  YOu just do not like it.

 

There are not radios in every zone for lore reasons.  YOU could look into that.

 

There is a way to skip Bank Missions.  YOU do not like it.

 

 

Edited October 27 by Snarky

[arcane]

I would oppose the addition of some of these enemy groups as they are now. Freakshow especially and probably 2 or 3 others. That would completely roll us back to the days of using radios to farm one overly easy enemy group. 
 

If Freakshow were buffed to the extent they buffed Council, then maybe. Long story short, if the added enemy groups are easier to deal with than Council / Circle / Arachnos / Carnival, then I oppose the suggestion.

Edited October 27 by arcane

[Kaika]

5 hours ago, Snarky said:

 

so....   NEVER delete content.  EVER.  So, you do not like Cave Maps.  That is a YOU statement.  Sucks to be YOU.

 

There is an easy way to re-roll mission.  YOu just do not like it.

 

There are not radios in every zone for lore reasons.  YOU could look into that.

 

There is a way to skip Bank Missions.  YOU do not like it.

 

 

Um.... yes?

 

I do not like these things.... that's why I made this suggestion.

Lore reasons I think are already pretty thin considering tips can be done in mostly any zone, and the already disposable nature of the missions.

If you like cave missions, power to you, I think they should still be in the game, just not in radio content.

Just because we have a work around doesn't mean we shouldn't make things better. I think the system is really flawed by today's standards and could be made better.

 

Your point seems to be "This is just your opinion" and yes it is, that's basically what suggestions are.

[Snarky]

4 minutes ago, Kaika said:

Um.... yes?

 

I do not like these things.... that's why I made this suggestion.

Lore reasons I think are already pretty thin considering tips can be done in mostly any zone, and the already disposable nature of the missions.

If you like cave missions, power to you, I think they should still be in the game, just not in radio content.

Just because we have a work around doesn't mean we shouldn't make things better. I think the system is really flawed by today's standards and could be made better.

 

Your point seems to be "This is just your opinion" and yes it is, that's basically what suggestions are.

I do not like Hero side,  so I suggest we all run villains and all content be transferred to Redside.  (get busy volunteer devs...)

 

Seriously, there needs to be a basis for a GOOD suggestion other than "waaaah  I wants it!!!"

 

Again, NEVER remove content.  You do not like the cave missions in the radios, or i assume anywhere.  Some of us consider it a part of the world.  Leave it the F alone.

 

If you do not understand the lore on radio tips you ....  may never.  sorry.  Like some people cannot figure out how to merge onto a freeway.  Life is full of sorry peeps.

 

So, improving the workarounds to make them smoother is a valid suggestion.  Now, after the Devs get done turning the entire game redside maybe they will have some time left over for your work.  Or maybe they will just keep slowly but steadily cranking out new sets and content.....

 

 

[Kaika]

31 minutes ago, Snarky said:

I do not like Hero side,  so I suggest we all run villains and all content be transferred to Redside.  (get busy volunteer devs...)

 

Seriously, there needs to be a basis for a GOOD suggestion other than "waaaah  I wants it!!!"

 

Again, NEVER remove content.  You do not like the cave missions in the radios, or i assume anywhere.  Some of us consider it a part of the world.  Leave it the F alone.

 

If you do not understand the lore on radio tips you ....  may never.  sorry.  Like some people cannot figure out how to merge onto a freeway.  Life is full of sorry peeps.

 

So, improving the workarounds to make them smoother is a valid suggestion.  Now, after the Devs get done turning the entire game redside maybe they will have some time left over for your work.  Or maybe they will just keep slowly but steadily cranking out new sets and content.....

 

 

I mean, its my Suggestion and Feedback on the Suggestions and Feedback forums, I'm not demanding anything, just giving my feedback and making a suggestion on a still widely used system that I think could use updates and how I would go about that. Alot of these are complaints I've heard echoed in many radio teams. You can suggest anything you want here, up to the devs if they want to listen to, ignore or implement any ideas.

 

Again I understand the "Lore" or radio/paper missions but I also think is very flexible, wouldn't be the first time lore has changed and I don't think anyone is super invested in the deep lore of radio/paper missions. Hell it could even be written in as the systems changing in lore, they done this before. I'm going to agree to disagree with you on caves here, but I can understand where you are coming from, I don't think they are worth keeping in radio missions, but I can understand why you or someone else would. If the devs updated the system and keep caves in, I would 100% still consider that a win. All I'm advocating for is a update to a very widely used system in this game, to expand it and make it a bit more user friendly.

 

Quote

"waaaah  I wants it!!!"

Seriously though? Immaturity of this statement aside, What would you rather have suggestions be, this is a MMO there is no need here. If you don't like my suggestion that's fine, but no need to belittle.

Edited October 28 by Kaika

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Kaika said:

Seriously though? Immaturity of this statement aside, What would you rather have suggestions be, this is a MMO there is no need here. If you don't like my suggestion that's fine, but no need to belittle.

thought you could take a little rhetorical snarkiness.

 

your proposal was so well written, but (to me), lacked that fundamental WHY?   and dropping any content in our (relatively small) world is always a questionable choice.  if the choices on there were increased to 5 with a clue as to what map they are on (hint, i can almost always guess...) then that would be nice.  But it is asking for someone to do work when they might be making a new powerset instead...