Cross punch fighting pool

[GarysBerries]

It seems either the description is wrong or the code is wrong. 

 

Having boxing, tough, cross punch. I'm led to believe I should have a 6 second 100% recharge bonus when using croas punch. It does not proc. It seems the code is written to require boxing and kick to proc. I have not tried this but someone in the help channel verified this via something called city of data.

 

So to me seems either the description is misleading, or the code isn't what was intended. 

 

Confusion here.

[Rudra]

City of Data can be found via this link:

https://cod.uberguy.net/

 

It can also be found via the 3rd pinned thread on the Tools, Utilities, and Downloads page accessible from the Home Page.

 

Also, how much recharge do you have on the powers you are checking?  The way recharge works, if you already have a lot of recharge boosts, you may not be seeing Cross Punch's because the progressive gains are harder to see. For instance, my Elec'/Elec'/Mu Dominator has 153.75% Haste (up from 100% base) and my Charged Bolts have a 62.73% recharge reduction. So my recharge on Charged Bolts is 1.85 seconds (from the base 4 seconds). Even if I added in Hasten (which I don't have) and got its 70% recharge boost, my Charged Bolts will still have a 1.4 second recharge. Not a difference I can normally detect. So I would recommend checking your powers' detailed information, using Cross Punch, and seeing if there is an effect there. (I don't know if there will be, I don't typically watch my power's detailed info window, but that is the best way to check I can think of.)

[GarysBerries]

100% extra on something like hasten or anything with a long enough recharge to be  reduced by seconds (perhaps even minutes) not milliseconds (which would still be readable if there was a change) would be noticeable on the recharge timer in most cases if not all. It seems to proc 5% recharge bonus per enemy hit. Which is why i say it doesn't proc (correctly?). Something still seems amiss. 

[Rudra]

The more recharge you already have before Cross Punch's recharge boost kicks in, the less noticeable it becomes. Just like damage buffs, recharge buffs are cumulative. Look at it this way, base recharge is 100%. Then you build in 100% recharge into the powers you have. That cuts the recharge time in half. If you also already have 100% recharge as a global effect, that cuts the time to 1/3. And if you get another +100% recharge from a power on top of all that, that cuts the time to 1/4. So the more you have, the less you see when you get another boost to it.

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Recharge

 

Edit: Do you have powers that take minutes to recharge? Then sure, that would be a good way to see if Cross Punch's recharge is working.

 

Edit again:

Cross Punch's recharge boost is:

[MagExpr]% RechargeTime Strength (self only) for 6s

Magnitude Expression: 0.05 * (source.ownPowerNum?(Pool.Fighting.Boxing) + source.ownPowerNum?(Pool.Fighting.Kick))

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pool.fighting.cross_punch&at=blaster

 

What that means? I don't know.

 

Edited October 9 by Rudra

[Luminara]

11 hours ago, GarysBerries said:

It seems either the description is wrong or the code is wrong. 

 

Having boxing, tough, cross punch. I'm led to believe I should have a 6 second 100% recharge bonus when using croas punch. It does not proc. It seems the code is written to require boxing and kick to proc. I have not tried this but someone in the help channel verified this via something called city of data.

 

So to me seems either the description is misleading, or the code isn't what was intended. 

 

Confusion here.

 

It's 5% global +Recharge and +ToHit for 6s with Boxing or Kick taken, 10% with both taken, times the number of targets hit (as a melee cone, it has a target cap of 5).  The description is vague because all descriptions are vague.  The power info is a mess because what Cross Punch does is conditional and the info window code wasn't designed to interpret conditions into a readable format.  Basically, Cross Punch does different things depending on whether different conditions are met (Boxing taken, Kick taken, both taken), and the power info window can't read that, so it just shows what the power def says.

Tough doesn't count for the conditional requirements.

 

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

[MagExpr]% RechargeTime Strength (self only) for 6s

Magnitude Expression: 0.05 * (source.ownPowerNum?(Pool.Fighting.Boxing) + source.ownPowerNum?(Pool.Fighting.Kick))

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pool.fighting.cross_punch&at=blaster

 

What that means? I don't know.

 

In the context of power defs, Magnitude is the strength of the power.  It's a base multiplier.  In this case, it's 1.

 

Expression is an on-the-fly calculation.

 

source.ownPowerNum? means "if the entity owns this power", represented as a 1 if it does, 0 if it doesn't.

 

So, 1 * (0.05 * (0 or 1) + (0 or 1)).

 

5% or 10%.

[GarysBerries]

7 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

It's 5% global +Recharge and +ToHit for 6s with Boxing or Kick taken, 10% with both taken, times the number of targets hit (as a melee cone, it has a target cap of 5).  The description is vague because all descriptions are vague.  The power info is a mess because what Cross Punch does is conditional and the info window code wasn't designed to interpret conditions into a readable format.  Basically, Cross Punch does different things depending on whether different conditions are met (Boxing taken, Kick taken, both taken), and the power info window can't read that, so it just shows what the power def says.

Tough doesn't count for the conditional requirements.

 

 

In the context of power defs, Magnitude is the strength of the power.  It's a base multiplier.  In this case, it's 1.

 

Expression is an on-the-fly calculation.

 

source.ownPowerNum? means "if the entity owns this power", represented as a 1 if it does, 0 if it doesn't.

 

So, 1 * (0.05 * (0 or 1) + (0 or 1)).

 

5% or 10%.

Still, it says it should be 100%. This has all been figured out. Tough was said to show my path through the "tree". 5-50% depending on powers and targets is not 100%. Amiss, no?. Unless I'm missing how this ends up being 100% somewhere..

[GarysBerries]

11 hours ago, Rudra said:

The more recharge you already have before Cross Punch's recharge boost kicks in, the less noticeable it becomes. Just like damage buffs, recharge buffs are cumulative. Look at it this way, base recharge is 100%. Then you build in 100% recharge into the powers you have. That cuts the recharge time in half. If you also already have 100% recharge as a global effect, that cuts the time to 1/3. And if you get another +100% recharge from a power on top of all that, that cuts the time to 1/4. So the more you have, the less you see when you get another boost to it.

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Recharge

 

Edit: Do you have powers that take minutes to recharge? Then sure, that would be a good way to see if Cross Punch's recharge is working.

 

Edit again:

Cross Punch's recharge boost is:

[MagExpr]% RechargeTime Strength (self only) for 6s

Magnitude Expression: 0.05 * (source.ownPowerNum?(Pool.Fighting.Boxing) + source.ownPowerNum?(Pool.Fighting.Kick))

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pool.fighting.cross_punch&at=blaster

 

What that means? I don't know.

 

I know how the percentages work. Yes multiple minute recharges, which piqued my interest first, and a main reason I chose to try cross punch. The issue is that it says it should be 100% extra while having either kick or boxing and cross punch.  It is not. No? 

Edited October 9 by GarysBerries
Punctuation that bothered me.

[Wavicle]

1 hour ago, GarysBerries said:

I know how the percentages work. Yes multiple minute recharges, which piqued my interest first, and a main reason I chose to try cross punch. The issue is that it says it should be 100% extra while having either kick or boxing and cross punch.  It is not. No? 

 

Where does it say 100%? I'm not seeing that.

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, GarysBerries said:

Still, it says it should be 100%.

 

And I explained why.  The info window isn't processing or displaying the information correctly.

 

1 hour ago, GarysBerries said:

Tough was said to show my path through the "tree".

 

"You execute a sweeping right hook that can strike multiple targets in your frontal arc. This attack causes moderate smashing damage and has a chance to both knock down and stun foes.

If you have also trained Boxing, this power's damage is increased by 15% and will improve your recharge and accuracy briefly.

If you have also trained Kick, this power's damage is increased by 15% and will improve your recharge and accuracy briefly.

The synergy with Boxing and Kick stacks.

You must be at least level 14 and have two other Fighting Powers before selecting Cross Punch."

 

That's Cross Punch's description.  Tough isn't mentioned.  Perhaps you misunderstood what someone else told you?

 

1 hour ago, GarysBerries said:

5-50% depending on powers and targets is not 100%. Amiss, no?.

 

No, for the previously explained reason.

 

Your initial bug report indicated a willingness to accept that the power information in-game was incorrect.  Your subsequent responses indicate a determination to force the developers to change the power to match the description.  Save yourself the effort, because that isn't on the table.

[Wavicle]

ah, ok, I found the place where it says 100%, yea Lumi is right, that's a display error. The text description of the power is correct.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, GarysBerries said:

I know how the percentages work. Yes multiple minute recharges, which piqued my interest first, and a main reason I chose to try cross punch. The issue is that it says it should be 100% extra while having either kick or boxing and cross punch.  It is not. No? 

No. Per City of Data, which @Luminara was kind enough to explain the expression, it should be 5% if you have just Kick or Boxing, or 10% if you have both.

[GarysBerries]

4 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

And I explained why.  The info window isn't processing or displaying the information correctly.

 

 

"You execute a sweeping right hook that can strike multiple targets in your frontal arc. This attack causes moderate smashing damage and has a chance to both knock down and stun foes.

If you have also trained Boxing, this power's damage is increased by 15% and will improve your recharge and accuracy briefly.

If you have also trained Kick, this power's damage is increased by 15% and will improve your recharge and accuracy briefly.

The synergy with Boxing and Kick stacks.

You must be at least level 14 and have two other Fighting Powers before selecting Cross Punch."

 

That's Cross Punch's description.  Tough isn't mentioned.  Perhaps you misunderstood what someone else told you?

 

 

No, for the previously explained reason.

 

Your initial bug report indicated a willingness to accept that the power information in-game was incorrect.  Your subsequent responses indicate a determination to force the developers to change the power to match the description.  Save yourself the effort, because that isn't on the table.

So my point still stands.

Either the code is not what was intended or the description and number display is incorrect in the info. Im not forcing anything. It seems you're trying to force a broom to sweep it under the rug. I'm verifying what is incorrect. Either way something needs to be changed/fixed. 

And with the description / display Info leading one to believe that cross punch alone, regardless of how one gets it, gives 100% recharge for 6 seconds upon usage - Either the power needs to reflect that or the info needs to be fixed to properly display what is actually happening. Unless you expect every player to read the underlying code for all their powers, and even then, still.. sloppy. A tough fix isn't my problem rn. But don't act like it's not an issue. 

 

No. boxing- tough- cross punch was merely my path to cross punch. I understand tough has nothing to do with the recharge. You're both missing my point entirely and proving it. 

 

So. Thanks.

 

The 5% and 10% displays correctly in the recharge attribute reflecting the code. Fwiw.

 

[GarysBerries]

Just now, Rudra said:

No. Per City of Data, which @Luminara was kind enough to explain the expression, it should be 5% if you have just Kick or Boxing, or 10% if you have both.

Still somethings wrong. 

[GarysBerries]

12 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

ah, ok, I found the place where it says 100%, yea Lumi is right, that's a display error. The text description of the power is correct.

Thx yeah. So an error/ bug. Ty

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, GarysBerries said:

Still somethings wrong. 

 

Just now, GarysBerries said:

Thx yeah. So an error/ bug. Ty

No one is saying that display error isn't wrong. I entered the discussion to see if maybe you weren't seeing it because of recharge buffs you already had. Sometimes a bug report post isn't, and a simple dialogue between players can resolve it. @Luminara entered the conversation to give clarity as to how much recharge Cross Punch is supposed to give and explain the expression. @Wavicle entered the discussion to find out where you were getting your information. It wasn't until you responded to @Luminara's 5%/10% post that it should be 100% that you got any push back. So relax, no one is trying to say you are wrong. Just trying to figure out the situation.