The Freedom Phalanx: why the hatred?

[Techwright]

The Freedom Phalanx: essentially the game's elite squad, the Avengers, the Justice League, the A-Team. 

 

So why all the hatred for them?  By them, I refer to every member present since the original game's creation, since a few of the original ones are not with the current team. 

 

Statesman hatred I get, I guess.  A lot of it that I've read stems from the character's connection to creator Jack, though not all of it.  It is that other part that I'm interested in.

Positron hatred completely confuses me.  I've not read in-game things nor had experiences to give understanding to that.

But nearly every other member I've seen a lot of trashing regarding.  I can't say I've seen much, if any, regarding Citadel.  But the amount of detest out there makes me wonder why it is even the elite squad of the game still.

 

As follow-up, how about some constructive comments?  What suggestions might give the writers opportunity to move the characters to a more positive reception while no turning them to highly generic characters lacking personality?

[Psyonico]

I don't think I've seen much hatred toward the characters other than Statesman, which I agree, is probably tied to Jack.

 

Now actually fighting them... That I've seen hatred for, but that's due to mechanics/powers they have.

[tidge]

I'm not a hater, but I love fighting the Freedom Phalanx. The parts of the Freedom Phalanx lore that sat wrong with me:

 

Statesman: As originally described, at launch, this was an Invulnerability Tanker. One that could move (without being rooted) and had ranged attacks! Unfair dude!

 

Positron: I think he's had at least two costume changes since launch. The original over-pattern looked a little goofy, but it looked goof on players too! I was more peeved by the lore change that allowed him to remove his helmet... ultimately no big deal, but helmed players can't do that, and it felt more ego-stroking. In canon, Positron's role (or not) with the Well of the Furies seems weird at least to me.

 

Manticore: The guy's role in the Shining Stars arc always seems off. It feels something like a mix of an absentee father as well as not really being present when things go pear-shaped, especially considering the alignment missions. I'm not a great fan of Longbow (in lore), so whatever he's doing with Longbow/Wyvern gets him tainted by association. I kinda feel like the whole Sister Psyche drama was role-playing something I didn't really want to watch.

 

Who Will Die (minor spoilers): It's not like these guys show up to help.

 

The Task Forces that many of them issue can also make me feel like I'm being their lackey.

 

On Red Side, some of them seem much more human (Synapse, anyway).

[mechahamham]

At least some players construe the characters with their real life pilots and the decisions those pilots made. You brought up Jack Emmert as Statesman. Without going into it, Jack Emmert, the real person, made statements and decisions that were unpopular.

 

Matt Miller, the real person behind Positron (https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Positron_(Developer)), was much less controversial, but as lead developer for City of Heroes for quite some time did become the focus of some pain points. In particular, Mr. Miller championed the idea of inserting multiple new currencies into a given game to try to create depth. This created some friction with players who didn't want to keep track of 'yet another brand of skeeball tickets'.

[Frozen Burn]

24 minutes ago, Techwright said:

The Freedom Phalanx: essentially the game's elite squad, the Avengers, the Justice League, the A-Team. 

 

So why all the hatred for them?  By them, I refer to every member present since the original game's creation, since a few of the original ones are not with the current team. 

 

Statesman hatred I get, I guess.  A lot of it that I've read stems from the character's connection to creator Jack, though not all of it.  It is that other part that I'm interested in.

Positron hatred completely confuses me.  I've not read in-game things nor had experiences to give understanding to that.

But nearly every other member I've seen a lot of trashing regarding.  I can't say I've seen much, if any, regarding Citadel.  But the amount of detest out there makes me wonder why it is even the elite squad of the game still.

 

As follow-up, how about some constructive comments?  What suggestions might give the writers opportunity to move the characters to a more positive reception while no turning them to highly generic characters lacking personality?

 

Are you talking about hatred towards the in-game NPCs or the Developers (Actual people) who used the Phalanx as code names?

 

I love the NPCs in game, their stories, etc.  As for the actual people donning the Freedom Phalanx' monikers... I have no issue with them.  No hatred here - even for Jack.  While I may not agree with everything he did/spouted, I certainly don't hate him.

 

And generally, most players (i know of) have no issues with any of the Phalanx Developers, except Jack - he does draw the most ire.  But Posi was one of the best and most respected since Jack.  

 

Or... is your question about the in-game NPCs?  People really hate them that much?  Tough fights, sure - but what's not to love about that?!  😄  

 

[Greycat]

Hatred?

 

I don't know of any towards the characters, really. A few friends aren't fond of Manticore due to the whole... put an arrow through your wife thing "and couldn't you have come up with something better?" And I know some people didn't like Yin coming in as a replacement. Granted some of the last arcs pre-sunset that had them interacting were kind of squabble-y.

 

But in general, I don't really see "hate" towards the characters.  Towards some of their stories, sure - like how Statesman was taken out (though I kind of like the "now you can rest, others can handle it" side of things.)

 

Towards the devs? Jack was ... a character, and at times controversial, but even then I think it's more "didn't agree with his decisions and he didn't always seem in touch with how players were actually playing" than actual hate.

[Glacier Peak]

I thought the book was okay. I like the Web of Arachnos better though. 

 

But to the thread question - I liked the characters before they were used as forum personas. Kind of like how Positron had a helmet on, then he took it off and it changed the character. 

Edited October 20 by Glacier Peak

[lemming]

30 minutes ago, tidge said:

Manticore

He's really the only one I dislike.

 

Like you said, Twinshot arc.    I have a character based on being hired by Manticore who gets the crap beat out of them by some new hero for a test.  Of course, the new hero isn't told that this is a test.  "They were using guns!"
 

And a bunch of other things.  The guy is a jerk.

[Snarky]

7 hours ago, Techwright said:

The Freedom Phalanx: essentially the game's elite squad, the Avengers, the Justice League, the A-Team. 

 

So why all the hatred for them?  By them, I refer to every member present since the original game's creation, since a few of the original ones are not with the current team. 

 

Statesman hatred I get, I guess.  A lot of it that I've read stems from the character's connection to creator Jack, though not all of it.  It is that other part that I'm interested in.

Positron hatred completely confuses me.  I've not read in-game things nor had experiences to give understanding to that.

But nearly every other member I've seen a lot of trashing regarding.  I can't say I've seen much, if any, regarding Citadel.  But the amount of detest out there makes me wonder why it is even the elite squad of the game still.

 

As follow-up, how about some constructive comments?  What suggestions might give the writers opportunity to move the characters to a more positive reception while no turning them to highly generic characters lacking personality?

Positron is an Alpha Male Prick.  Citadel is one of the least imaginative TF I have ever seen, and he has BO.  Manticore is a whiny bitch.  Numina is deeply involved in the Midnight Squad cult, and even villains don't trust those pricks.  P Yin is batshit crazy in EVERY incarnation. Synapse is a Crey operative.  They all put on goody two shoe airs while telling everyone else how to live and by what rules, rules they themselves break.

 

 

That is the cliff notes, but if you need more info I got a file cabinet on each of them.  They are involved in nasty stuff for "heroes"

 

 

[Widower]

12 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Positron is an Alpha Male Prick.  Citadel is one of the least imaginative TF I have ever seen, and he has BO.  Manticore is a whiny bitch.  Numina is deeply involved in the Midnight Squad cult, and even villains don't trust those pricks.  P Yin is batshit crazy in EVERY incarnation. Synapse is a Crey operative.  They all put on goody two shoe airs while telling everyone else how to live and by what rules, rules they themselves break.

 

 

That is the cliff notes, but if you need more info I got a file cabinet on each of them.  They are involved in nasty stuff for "heroes"

 

 

Man, you've got an axe to grind! Next you'll probably be blaming Statesman for your ED...

[biostem]

I would argue that much of the "hatred" stems from necessary game mechanics - essentially, these "signature heroes", (and villains, for that matter), can't actually do anything - they stand around, give out quests/TFs, and sometimes make appearances in missions, but due to the multiplayer nature of CoH, can't have any meaningful impact on the rest of the game.  If this were a single-player game, they could have more of an impact, as could each player's individual contributions.

 

From a more general standpoint, it would be cool if, for instance, a player defeated one of them as a villain, switched sides, then encounters them again, and they acknowledge their prior defeat and/or other such accomplishments...

[UltraAlt]

8 hours ago, Techwright said:

So why all the hatred for them?

 

😕 er, what?

 

8 hours ago, Techwright said:

As follow-up, how about some constructive comments?

 

They are better than Fox Bat?!

 

I have all my powers in one OAF (obvious accessible focus) and Jack though I was more important than the actual Champions RPG Rule Set.

 

8 hours ago, Techwright said:

What suggestions might give the writers opportunity to move the characters to a more positive reception while no turning them to highly generic characters lacking personality?

 

Well, obviously ....

Spoiler

... Statesman is dead!

 

... but anyone can write anything they like in the AE about them. Play with them like action figures!

 

Wait, weren't two of them married so that a wedding mini-pack could be put on sale?

 

 

I think it is the Villain side that tends to do the bashing on these mostly fine heroes.

It was Heroes thing...

 

 

Somehow the bad guys are good guys and good guys are bad guys....

 

 

... at least that is what they dreamed up (copied), because they thought it was cool ...

 

Spoiler

Be careful of what you wish for (dream up).

 

[lemming]

8 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

I have all my powers in one OAF (obvious accessible focus) and Jack though I was more important than the actual Champions RPG Rule Set.

Foxbat was part of what was bought, the rule set was not part of the deal.

[UltraAlt]

48 minutes ago, lemming said:

Foxbat was part of what was bought, the rule set was not part of the deal.

 

Oh, I thought they bought the whole line, because they had already had built the framework/game design(rules) for the Marvel Online MMORPG and were trying to salvage the work that they had already done.

As far as I know, they released a version of the rules that they used in the MMORPG as RPG (aka tabletop) rules.

 

Of course, anyone that played Champions RPG knows that the game rules were what made that game popular and not Foxbat.

They obviously bought the game for the branding of "Champions" to sell the MMORPG. 

[Biff Pow]

11 hours ago, Techwright said:

The Freedom Phalanx: essentially the game's elite squad, the Avengers, the Justice League, the A-Team. 

 

They're background characters in the main hero (the player)'s story.

[Bionic_Flea]

9 hours ago, Widower said:

Man, you've got an axe to grind! Next you'll probably be blaming Statesman for your ED...

 

Burrrrrrrrrrrrrrnnnnnn!!

 

[lemming]

7 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Oh, I thought they bought the whole line, because they had already had built the framework/game design(rules) for the Marvel Online MMORPG and were trying to salvage the work that they had already done.

As far as I know, they released a version of the rules that they used in the MMORPG as RPG (aka tabletop) rules.

 

Of course, anyone that played Champions RPG knows that the game rules were what made that game popular and not Foxbat.

They obviously bought the game for the branding of "Champions" to sell the MMORPG. 

I was heavily involved with Hero at the time.    The IP of the Champions world was what was licensed.  I forget the details, but the MMO was built with Marvel in mind, Marvel backed out, so they went with the Champions Universe except for two characters.   The rules set was never part of it, just the world setting.

While I like the 6th edition, I didn't ttrpg nearly as much and drifted away from the Hero system.  Champions Complete is 6th edition, but a bit more digestible.

[Snarky]

17 hours ago, lemming said:

He's really the only one I dislike.

 

Like you said, Twinshot arc.    I have a character based on being hired by Manticore who gets the crap beat out of them by some new hero for a test.  Of course, the new hero isn't told that this is a test.  "They were using guns!"
 

And a bunch of other things.  The guy is a jerk.

this is very nice.  there are some good villain concepts that can be grown from this.

[Icono04]

The only FP members I have seen people ragging on in in-game chat (i.e. in team/league chat or in General) are:

- Statesman, because of the Jack Emmert connection

- Manticore, because (a) his character is a douchebag who tries too hard, and (b) his relationship with Sister Psyche is played out as cringey ERP which we as players were forced to watch. It is like being a TTRPG player where the DM's girlfriend is one of the players and he can't separate his RL relationship from the game.

- Synapse, but only because of his tedious TF, not because of anything to do with his personality.

[MoonSheep]

red squirrel man getting a lot of hate on this thread, no wonder LRSF’s are so easy to fill

[Frozen Burn]

11 hours ago, Snarky said:

 Citadel is one of the least imaginative TF I have ever seen, and he has BO.

 

He may have BO - which is something for an android - but he inherited the TF mess from Bastion.  But also, Citadel could have improved it when he took it over - the lazy copycat.  😄  

 

Oh, and Synapse TF is worse - and why is he all concerned about clockwork anyway?  You'd think he'd be standing in Brix and running Manticore's TF to get revenge - er.... justice.  The the vigilante Manticore - who I'm sure Blue Steel took a few classes from - could then stand in Skyway and deal with the Clockwork.  Or... just give that God-awful clockwork TF to Blue Steel and give Manti a whole new one.

 

 

Edited October 17 by Frozen Burn

[Snarky]

Just now, Frozen Burn said:

 

He may have BO - which is something for an android - but he inherited the TF mess from Bastion.  But also, Citadel could have improved it when he took it over - the lazy copycat.  😄  

But why does an android have BO?  Does he secrete it on purpose?  Is he using some hormones to try to seem more human?  does he have a fetish for dirty socks?  We need more info!  i suggest that should be the real Citadel TF.  A quest to discover why this guy just reeks!

[Frozen Burn]

2 minutes ago, Snarky said:

But why does an android have BO?  Does he secrete it on purpose?  Is he using some hormones to try to seem more human?  does he have a fetish for dirty socks?  We need more info!  i suggest that should be the real Citadel TF.  A quest to discover why this guy just reeks!

 

I know, right??  😄  

[Maelwys]

[cranebump]

13 hours ago, Snarky said:

Positron is an Alpha Male Prick.  Citadel is one of the least imaginative TF I have ever seen, and he has BO.  Manticore is a whiny bitch.  Numina is deeply involved in the Midnight Squad cult, and even villains don't trust those pricks.  P Yin is batshit crazy in EVERY incarnation. Synapse is a Crey operative.  They all put on goody two shoe airs while telling everyone else how to live and by what rules, rules they themselves break.

 

You can take the Snarky out of Redside…