What would be the best way to realise the planned Striker AT?

[Xaeon]

The Striker AT was in the works before sunset and has a relatively simple concept to build around compared to a lot of other AT ideas. In essence; an AT built around the blapper playstyle mixing range and melee damage with what was said to be a melee primary and a ranged secondary. Beyond that, there wasn't too much detail. But I was left to wonder, would that ranged secondary be purely a blast secondary or would it be a hybrid secondary? Perhaps combining the control aspects of manipulation sets and the ranged damage aspects of assault sets from blasters and dominators respectively? 

 

There's also the question of what would be a fitting inherent and ATO sets for the AT, as well as how to ensure they don't become frustrating to play with due to what would likely be an extreme glass cannon playstyle, nor end up obsoleting existing ATs. 

 

 

[jack_nomind]

The Striker AT was in the works before sunset and has a relatively simple concept to build around compared to a lot of other AT ideas. In essence; an AT built around the blapper playstyle mixing range and melee damage with what was said to be a melee primary and a ranged secondary. Beyond that, there wasn't too much detail.

 

It was a ranged or assault primary and an armor secondary.  We have it.  It's the Sentinel.

[Xaeon]

The Striker AT was in the works before sunset and has a relatively simple concept to build around compared to a lot of other AT ideas. In essence; an AT built around the blapper playstyle mixing range and melee damage with what was said to be a melee primary and a ranged secondary. Beyond that, there wasn't too much detail.

 

It was a ranged or assault primary and an armor secondary.  We have it.  It's the Sentinel.

I'm 99% sure it was a reverse blapper. 

 

According to the AMAs:  The Striker AT (Range/Melee DPS).

 

From what I've been able to gather, it was a Melee Primary/Range secondary AT meant for people who like to live on the edge by essentially having zero survivability despite primarily fighting in melee.

[malonkey1]

The Striker AT was in the works before sunset and has a relatively simple concept to build around compared to a lot of other AT ideas. In essence; an AT built around the blapper playstyle mixing range and melee damage with what was said to be a melee primary and a ranged secondary. Beyond that, there wasn't too much detail.

 

It was a ranged or assault primary and an armor secondary.  We have it.  It's the Sentinel.

I'm 99% sure it was a reverse blapper. 

 

According to the AMAs:  The Striker AT (Range/Melee DPS).

 

From what I've been able to gather, it was a Melee Primary/Range secondary AT meant for people who like to live on the edge by essentially having zero survivability despite primarily fighting in melee.

 

I don't know who that would appeal to, but it certainly wouldn't appeal to me. Blasters already spend plenty of time inspecting the floor, the striker would become a part of the floor.

[jack_nomind]

According to the AMAs:  The Striker AT (Range/Melee DPS).

 

From what I've been able to gather, it was a Melee Primary/Range secondary AT meant for people who like to live on the edge by essentially having zero survivability despite primarily fighting in melee.

 

And uh, other than that one line -- which if you took it perfectly literally would just be 'blaster again' -- what exactly have you been able to gather?

 

and where do you think the Sentinel came from?

[Auroxis]

The only class we're missing is a true melee/support hybrid. Inherent would have to be something that gives CC protection though.

 

[Galaxy Brain]

Blasters are already blappers by design 90% of the time... how would this be different?

[Xaeon]

According to the AMAs:  The Striker AT (Range/Melee DPS).

 

From what I've been able to gather, it was a Melee Primary/Range secondary AT meant for people who like to live on the edge by essentially having zero survivability despite primarily fighting in melee.

 

And uh, other than that one line -- which if you took it perfectly literally would just be 'blaster again' -- what exactly have you been able to gather?

 

and where do you think the Sentinel came from?

 

The Striker was intended to be a maximum damage melee primary/ranged (possibly ranged/control) secondary AT that was well in the process of development by the time of shut down. Intended to essentially be an AT where blapping was the whole design of the AT rather than a thing you could contort a build into trying to do/isn't just a suboptimal meme build strictly inferior to Dominators.

[Galaxy Brain]

Side note, I dont get why "blapping" is a defined side-thing for blasters. 90% of secondaries have very strong melee attacks that are just part of the kit, so wouldnt it just be part of being a blaster?

[Xaeon]

Side note, I dont get why "blapping" is a defined side-thing for blasters. 90% of secondaries have very strong melee attacks that are just part of the kit, so wouldnt it just be part of being a blaster?

You barely have enough melee attacks to make a good attack chain for most sets (and some secondaries literally cannot make a melee attack chain at all). A pure blapping build is also regarded as something of a meme as Blasters don't really have the melee damage scaling to get the most out of it (inferior to Dominators who also get much better CC to ensure nobody hits them back) and many blaster secondaries do not provide for any significant melee capability.

[Galaxy Brain]

You can use blasts in melee range tho. I recall my elec^3 on live would just wail on somebody with the blasts and melee attacks in close range. There isnt a penalty to using a blast at melee range, so it's just treated as part of the chain with them.

[Captain Powerhouse]

The striker was meant to use a primary that looks very similar to Assault sets, and a secondary that looks like Manipulation sets but having all it's melee and sustain stripped and replaced with Armor toggles.

 

The inherent was supposed to boost melee attacks as you use ranged attacks, eventually giving you a strong insentive to jump into melee for peak DPS.

 

In theory, if you have ever played Final Fantasy 14, a Striker would had looked VERY similar to Red Mages there, minus the white/black balance. Basically build the buff, then jump into melee, unleash a volley of melee attacks, go back to range, rebuild, repeat.

 

Implementation wise, the secondary would had been problematic, due to how the sets are configured. There has been a lot of thought put over the years on making Strikers a thing. There are a lot of priorities that need to be taken care of before any work is done on the AT, but you could expect it to look more like:

 

• Asault-Like primary.
  
• Sentinel Armor Secondary (armor that does not require enemies around you to work.)
  
• Epic pool focused mostly on control (not very strong control modifiers.)
  
• Inherent Striking Force bar mechanic that fills as you use your ranged attacks from outside melee range.
  
• Melee attacks "consume" it as if it was Endurance to strengthen their damage.
  
• At least one Melee attack would work similar to Savage Assault's Feral Charge (activate at range and move in close)
  
• They would have access to a power that will make you "jump back" into range.
  

 

 

[Auroxis]

Thanks Captain, sounds a lot like how a Claws Scrapper or a Tri-Form Kheldian plays. I don't think it warrants all the effort.

[HemlocksGM]

The striker was meant to use a primary that looks very similar to Assault sets, and a secondary that looks like Manipulation sets but having all it's melee and sustain stripped and replaced with Armor toggles.

 

The inherent was supposed to boost melee attacks as you use ranged attacks, eventually giving you a strong insentive to jump into melee for peak DPS.

 

In theory, if you have ever played Final Fantasy 14, a Striker would had looked VERY similar to Red Mages there, minus the white/black balance. Basically build the buff, then jump into melee, unleash a volley of melee attacks, go back to range, rebuild, repeat.

 

Implementation wise, the secondary would had been problematic, due to how the sets are configured. There has been a lot of thought put over the years on making Strikers a thing. There are a lot of priorities that need to be taken care of before any work is done on the AT, but you could expect it to look more like:

 

Asault-Like primary.

Sentinel Armor Secondary (armor that does not require enemies around you to work.)

Epic pool focused mostly on control (not very strong control modifiers.)

Inherent Striking Force bar mechanic that fills as you use your ranged attacks from outside melee range.

Melee attacks "consume" it as if it was Endurance to strengthen their damage.

At least one Melee attack would work similar to Savage Assault's Feral Charge (activate at range and move in close)

They would have access to a power that will make you "jump back" into range.

 

That sounds like exactly the kind of character I'd like to play; I keep making Doms or Blasters and attempting to play primarily around the secondary, melee-focused power sets while treating my primary control/ranged blasts as if it were secondary. Even if they didn't have the inherent mobility to jump in or out of melee, that play style sounds like a lot of fun.

[Saikochoro]

The striker was meant to use a primary that looks very similar to Assault sets, and a secondary that looks like Manipulation sets but having all it's melee and sustain stripped and replaced with Armor toggles.

 

The inherent was supposed to boost melee attacks as you use ranged attacks, eventually giving you a strong insentive to jump into melee for peak DPS.

 

In theory, if you have ever played Final Fantasy 14, a Striker would had looked VERY similar to Red Mages there, minus the white/black balance. Basically build the buff, then jump into melee, unleash a volley of melee attacks, go back to range, rebuild, repeat.

 

Implementation wise, the secondary would had been problematic, due to how the sets are configured. There has been a lot of thought put over the years on making Strikers a thing. There are a lot of priorities that need to be taken care of before any work is done on the AT, but you could expect it to look more like:

 

• Asault-Like primary.
  
• Sentinel Armor Secondary (armor that does not require enemies around you to work.)
  
• Epic pool focused mostly on control (not very strong control modifiers.)
  
• Inherent Striking Force bar mechanic that fills as you use your ranged attacks from outside melee range.
  
• Melee attacks "consume" it as if it was Endurance to strengthen their damage.
  
• At least one Melee attack would work similar to Savage Assault's Feral Charge (activate at range and move in close)
  
• They would have access to a power that will make you "jump back" into range.
  

 

That sounds like a lot of fun. Although it does have elements other sets can mimic, it would still be unique. I would definitely make a few.

[Steampunkette]

The striker was meant to use a primary that looks very similar to Assault sets, and a secondary that looks like Manipulation sets but having all it's melee and sustain stripped and replaced with Armor toggles.

 

The inherent was supposed to boost melee attacks as you use ranged attacks, eventually giving you a strong insentive to jump into melee for peak DPS.

 

In theory, if you have ever played Final Fantasy 14, a Striker would had looked VERY similar to Red Mages there, minus the white/black balance. Basically build the buff, then jump into melee, unleash a volley of melee attacks, go back to range, rebuild, repeat.

 

Implementation wise, the secondary would had been problematic, due to how the sets are configured. There has been a lot of thought put over the years on making Strikers a thing. There are a lot of priorities that need to be taken care of before any work is done on the AT, but you could expect it to look more like:

 

• Asault-Like primary.
  
• Sentinel Armor Secondary (armor that does not require enemies around you to work.)
  
• Epic pool focused mostly on control (not very strong control modifiers.)
  
• Inherent Striking Force bar mechanic that fills as you use your ranged attacks from outside melee range.
  
• Melee attacks "consume" it as if it was Endurance to strengthen their damage.
  
• At least one Melee attack would work similar to Savage Assault's Feral Charge (activate at range and move in close)
  
• They would have access to a power that will make you "jump back" into range.
  

 

Is there any chance that we could simplify this concept a bit?

 

Like... An Instigator Archetype based on an Assault Primary and the Sentinel Defense secondaries, and then kill the idea of the "Ranged/Melee" dichotomy bounce and out of melee idea. While that should be a valid playstyle, it's a little self-limiting.

 

How about, instead, a pair of "Stance" toggles at level 1. The "Offensive Stance" toggle makes your attacks proc additional damage on a hit (type determined by the attack) or gain other benefits based on the power itself but gives you a small Defense and Resistance penalty. The "Defensive Stance" toggle activates some additional benefits from your defensive powers (Like Bio Armor's Defensive and Efficient toggles) but gives you a global Damage penalty.

 

That way if you're on a team with a lot of defensive characters you can toggle on your Offensive Stance Toggle to add more overall DPS, but if you're on a team without a tank/brute/scrapper you can put on your Defensive Stance toggle to help control aggro and increase your survivability...

 

Or you can leave your toggles off to enjoy the basic functions of your powers and feel balanced, but always have the option (based on how a fight is going) to change your Stance to Offensive or Defensive.

 

Or. Y'know. Give us the Manipulation/Defense secondary sets if you wanna spend -that- much time on it! I'd love to have a melee and ranged primary and a secondary that combines controls and defenses.

[Replacement]

Whoah whoah whoah whoah.  I just saw this!

 

Captaaaaaaaain!  Could you please come back?

 

Implementation wise, the secondary would had been problematic, due to how the sets are configured.

 

Could you elaborate on this?

 

I see two interpretations:

[*]From a tech standpoint, it requires a lot of messy work, such as onerous duplicated effort or technical challenges

[*]We have the same definition of Implementation, and you're talking about all the changes you'd need to make

 

I implore you, please consider a "less is more" approach, here.  I'm talking changes that not only keep more of what players enjoy with these sets in-tact, but also less work for you!

Consider:

• Sustain powers are fun.
  
• No need to remove all melee powers from the Manipulation sets -- just the ones that duplicate across to Assaults. 
  
• Completely write off Mental Manipulation right now.  It's a complete loss and there are enough sets to make a functioning AT.
  
• We're super done with more armor ATs.
  

 

Excluding some Build Up overlap which would need swapped out for Aim or similar... expect to replace an average of 2 melee attack/repeat moves with defensive skills (and I would actually suggest low-recast Clicks like Scrapper > Soul Mastery > Shadow Meld).

 

I threw together an ugly spreadsheet using City Of Data, (surprisingly, the Wayback machine has a listing with most i24 data) to see just how much overlap there is.  Let me know if you want it.

 

Easiest to port (2 powers must go):

Darkness, Fire

 

Arguably easiest to port (1 power must go, but you'll probably need to axe a 2nd to keep them in line with the other sets)

Devices, Ice, Martial

 

Some work to port (3 powers must go, and that's assuming swapping out Build Up is non-controversial)

Energy, Electricity

 

No data on the i25+ sets that aren't listed on the City of Data Wayback machine.  If there's interest, I'll add that data and compare it.

 

EDIT (if this is ever seen..): I understand the direction they were headed with the Inherent but it's too heavy-handed.  It's too rigid.  Don't feel beholden to this following example - I like it, but the thing I want to call attention to is how it provides the player a unique gameplay loop without beating them over the head with it.

Take the tack of "positional advantage".  Calculate a value based on the Defiance formulas for each power.  If the attack is melee, it gives a defense buff.  If it's ranged, it provides a recharge buff.  This creates two dynamics, and incentives to switch it up.

And you accomplish it without an inelegant "inherent toggle" which I seem to see in every AT thread.