page 3 [FOCUSED FEEDBACK] Super Reflexes Adjustments

[Wavicle]

The Absorb on Practiced Brawler is available pretty infrequently AND is weakened when you aren't yet hurt.

Maybe increase the duration of the absorb and make it a fixed amount regardless of health and endurance.

Edited yesterday at 06:39 AM by Wavicle

[Major_Decoy]

8 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

The Absorb on Practiced Brawler is available pretty infrequently AND is weakened when you aren't yet hurt.

Maybe increase the duration of the absorb and make it a fixed amount regardless of health and endurance.

 

Make it +Maximum health but don't include a heal! Your health will go up and you'll end up somewhere in the sliding resistance scales. 

[Shin Magmus]

5 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

 

Make it +Maximum health but don't include a heal! Your health will go up and you'll end up somewhere in the sliding resistance scales. 

   I actually think it should be the opposite.  Practiced Brawler should grant more Absorb than it does now and it should be something you can click whenever, but clicking it before fights causes you to get a nice buffer going into them, and clicking it during a fight at low HP is a contrived, somewhat unlikely scenario since you need to click it in order to have Mez protection already, but when it does happen it will be a nice boon and grant massive Absorb.  Master Brawler is going to be completely outclassed and be a shit Toggle with 0 slotting options, so Master Brawler should grant some enhanceable +Max HP.  This way the people who want the hands-off build with the toggle will have an option that is both not completely outclassed and that can be slotted with a Unique Heal IO and End/Heal enhancements for useful benefits and set bonuses.

[aethereal]

10 hours ago, stryve said:

I accidentally posted in the Sentinel Focused Feedback thread instead of this one yesterday, but Master Brawler (on Sentinels at least) may be de-toggling when mezed.  I've had difficulty deliberately testing that due to the difficulty of getting hit with enough mez to overwhelm Master Brawler's protection without dying first.  Any suggestions there are welcome.

 

Suggestion: You could make AE custom enemies where the minions have a low damage hold power and nothing else, play on a high team size notoriety and their alpha should be to spam you with it.

[Frosticus]

If old elude was redundant why does it still buff defense? is that not still redundant?

 

Stalker version of fast healing t2 power (regen+recovery) > new elude.

 

Rune of protection (power pool) > new elude because the added resistance works way better with the scaling res.

 

If you want sr to have a non redundant t9 that people will feel compelled to include then give them the new unstoppable. 

[oldskool]

I like the convenience of Master Brawler being a toggle even if the fact it has a constant toggle cost is a downgrade from the previous Sentinel version. In the previous Sentinel version I would spend the endurance for an effect with the no end cost benefit of mez protection. It may have been a bit too good to be true. 

 

New Master Brawler has a standard toggle cost for ...just mez protection? It certainly feels a bit weak in comparison to other toggle mez protection powers. Ironically, Practiced Brawler will carry a perception of being "better" because it does more upfront even if the absorb effect in and of itself is nothing to write home about. 

 

In other words, I see almost zero reason to change my Scrapper or Stalker SR builds to swap from Practiced Brawler. I want to click that power on cooldown. Now, when I do I also get a minor absorb too. There isn't that much incentive to swap to Master Brawler besides the perception of it being convenience at the cost of it constantly requiring endurance on an already toggle heavy set. 

 

I guess that extra toggle use gives some relevance to Elude since that has recovery built in. Unfortunately, Elude's cooldown is so much longer than the effect it isn't that useful as a supportive power. 

 

New Elude likely has the biggest impact on users still leveling up where a burst of defense may seem reasonable while still fleshing out slots with SOs. Also, it can have some value for the regen/recovery if you spec into it via enhancements but the downtime doesn't make it as reliable. At level 45+ (for exemplar play with Incarnates), Elude has an identity crisis where it doesn't really contribute much that is new. Frankly, the healing is pretty much made obsolete in my opinion at this level range by Rebirth's constant healing; something I already do. 

All in all, the changes here don't really pack the punch to make them feel more impactful. I think it is entirely reasonable to view what happened to Master Brawler as effectively a nerf (removed its absorb, forced an end cost) to Sentinels and traded some of that functionality to Practice Brawler for an effect that in a practical sense no one even asked for. Additionally, I doubt players are waiting for that right moment to click Practiced Brawler and so the absorb just seems strangely placed. 

Lastly, Elude doesn't feel that impactful for the changes. I actually have Elude on my Sentinel. I use it occasional for the endurance boost which is really unchanged with this test other than the obvious benefit of no crash. However, my use case is niche, and even with the change to the power will continue to be... niche. The changes made aren't genuinely enough... BUT... I do think building on a heal in Elude is something Super Reflexes is missing as a set. The lack of native healing is one of the more commonly brought up weaknesses and is a role a T9 could fit into. Elude could be an inverse of Moment of Glory. MoG gives Regen a bunch of defense and resistance the set doesn't have. Elude could give SR resist and regen it doesn't have. 

Edit: You know... since my feedback so far is that PB's absorb feels out of place, and I can certainly see a reason to not give it Master Brawler.... The idea of having absorb in this powerset could be a role Elude takes on. Having an extra health layer may be a nice compromise vs replicating resistances or just giving regeneration rate. 

Edited 21 hours ago by oldskool

[UltraAlt]

On 12/5/2025 at 5:38 PM, The Curator said:

• Practiced Brawler
  • This power now grants scale 2.5 absorb that is strongest the less HP and most end you currently have.
  • This power now takes heal enhancements and sets
• Master Brawler
  • Power is now a toggle
  • Powers that used to grant effects if this power was owned no longer do so, all effects moved directly into this toggle
  • No longer grants absorb nor takes healing enhancements or sets
  • Power is now available to Tankers, Brutes, Scrappers and Stalkers as a mutually exclusive power from Practiced Brawler

 

So what exactly are the differences between these other than one being a click power that grants absorb and one being a toggle power that does not grant absorb?

They both seem to provide the same amount of anti-mez.

 

I always slot Practiced Brawler (and like powers) with two SO recharge enhances which is enough (without any slows affecting the character) so that it recharges before the effect wears off. With those two SO recharge enhances, putting the power on auto-fire means it is always active as long as you break from attacking long enough for it to go off once it is recharges.

 

I'm not seeing any advantage to Master Brawler (and, honestly, didn't understand it was an "or" selection between Master Brawler and Practiced Brawler for a Sentinel).

[Wavicle]

6 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

So what exactly are the differences between these other than one being a click power that grants absorb and one being a toggle power that does not grant absorb?

They both seem to provide the same amount of anti-mez.

 

I always slot Practiced Brawler (and like powers) with two SO recharge enhances which is enough (without any slows affecting the character) so that it recharges before the effect wears off. With those two SO recharge enhances, putting the power on auto-fire means it is always active as long as you break from attacking long enough for it to go off once it is recharges.

 

I'm not seeing any advantage to Master Brawler (and, honestly, didn't understand it was an "or" selection between Master Brawler and Practiced Brawler for a Sentinel).

Basically, it’s set up now so that people who really don’t want a click for their mez protection have a toggle they can choose, and those people who do want to click get something extra to make up for the fact that they had to click it.

[Major_Decoy]

10 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Basically, it’s set up now so that people who really don’t want a click for their mez protection have a toggle they can choose, and those people who do want to click get something extra to make up for the fact that they had to click it.

 Yeah, I kind of figured that it's for people that want to use ctrl+lclick for something other than Practiced Brawler.

 

But yeah, if you're just getting started on a character, I can understand the toggle. It's "You can have mez protection with some up time and some down time or you can have mez protection you don't need to think about" But once I get the recharge below the duration, I do tend to just to put it on auto-fire and forget about it.

 

If you're being defeated a lot, you don't need to worry about the recharge time on a toggle?

[Bill Z Bubba]

I don't know what to do. I have to waste .924 seconds every 120 seconds for hasten to fire off and PB makes that worse with another 1.716 seconds. I know, it doesn't sound like much but every time I'm fighting any kind of hard target, it's always annoyed me. And firing off Elude is even worse on DPS if I'm firing it off every 90 seconds for a 1/3 uptime unless I start doublestacking PB for the extra absorb, then PB becomes the top DPS killer..

Put them all together (Hasten, PB and Elude) and in a 6 minute period, I'm down a total of .924*3 + 1.716*6 + 1.716*4 = pretty much 20 seconds of dead time out of every 360 seconds but for that pain I'm getting +70% recharge, some value of absorb buff every 60 seconds and +150 regen/recovery for 30 seconds every 90 seconds.

 

Health has a base regen value of 40%.

Physical Perfection is half that at 20%.

Elude is 150% regen 1/3 of the time, (with my build's current recharge,) so we'll call it 50% regen. I can easily yank extra +heal slots from PP and H to 6 slot Elude, still leaving all the good unique procs in the build and in the passives. No point in putting any in Elude. (EDIT: Hell, is even this statement true? Does a 90 second recharge mean good proc chances?) But it would be at the cost of around 6% SL resistance I'm getting with the current slotting. Does the loss of that SL resist all the time hurt me more than the nearly +300% regen 1/3 of the time?

Is the +absorb from PrevMed Proc in a passive already giving me more absorb than I'll get if I stick with PB?

Didn't someone put together a website or post breaking down all the heal/absorb/recovery procs comparing them to base regen/recovery from health and stamina?

Edited 19 hours ago by Bill Z Bubba

[oldskool]

I also came across a situation where Master Brawler detoggled. Its possible I may have gotten stacking overwhelmed in the mission I was running. 

Level 50, +4 content, x8 party size vs Carnival. 

There were a few instances where Tenebrous Tentacles was absolutely immobilizing me but there was no indicator that I was Immobilized. I could not move. In the second instance of this, I got Immobilized, dogpiled, and then held all toggles dropped off. When I was getting mezzed I could see Master Brawler was not actually active but my other defenses were. 

I don't have enough of a sample to really pin point what happened but it does seem like something may be bugged in Master Brawler. 

[Wavicle]

20 minutes ago, oldskool said:

I also came across a situation where Master Brawler detoggled. Its possible I may have gotten stacking overwhelmed in the mission I was running. 

Level 50, +4 content, x8 party size vs Carnival. 

There were a few instances where Tenebrous Tentacles was absolutely immobilizing me but there was no indicator that I was Immobilized. I could not move. In the second instance of this, I got Immobilized, dogpiled, and then held all toggles dropped off. When I was getting mezzed I could see Master Brawler was not actually active but my other defenses were. 

I don't have enough of a sample to really pin point what happened but it does seem like something may be bugged in Master Brawler. 

Toggles shouldn’t be dropping unless you run out of insurance. They get suppressed if you are mezzed, right?

[Major_Decoy]

3 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Toggles shouldn’t be dropping unless you run out of insurance. They get suppressed if you are mezzed, right?

Unless it's a toggle that's flagged as offensive. Damage auras, stuff like that will detoggle when mezzed. Master Brawler might be misflagged?

[oldskool]

@Wavicle retested, same mission... 

Master Brawler can definitely get turned off. It does in fact stop showing the white circle around it. 

That said, my other toggles did not drop, but Master Brawler absolutely did. I don't have video software to capture it, but this is now the 3rd time I have seen this behavior. 

The +4 mission had 55's in it. I had 4 bosses which I suspect may have contributed to being overwhelmed. 

I started a new mission at +2 difficulty. I could not replicate the same behavior. 

Edited 16 hours ago by oldskool

[Uncle Shags]

23 hours ago, stryve said:

I've had difficulty deliberately testing that due to the difficulty of getting hit with enough mez to overwhelm Master Brawler's protection without dying first.  Any suggestions there are welcome.

 

I've found multiple +5 carnie illusionists stack holds really high, quickly.  I think others have mentioned Malta. 

[Major_Decoy]

Just now, Uncle Shags said:

 

I've found multiple +5 carnie illusionists stack holds really high, quickly.  I think others have mentioned Malta. 

Knives of Artemis maybe? I've detoggled I think because of the sleep darts before.

[Erratic1]

5 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Basically, it’s set up now so that people who really don’t want a click for their mez protection have a toggle they can choose, and those people who do want to click get something extra to make up for the fact that they had to click it.

 

Arguably the click version costing only 0.0867 end/sec (once enough recharge reduction is in place, so it is up every 2 minutes) as opposed to 0.26 end/sec is meaningful.

[FupDup]

Here's the breakdown of the benefits of each: 

Master Brawler:

-Less attention needed (toggle)

 

Practiced Brawler:

-Stackable mezz protection

-Cannot be disabled by sapping

-Lower endurance usage over time

-Small absorb when clicked

-Slot healing sets (namely for PrevMed's proc)

 

It conclusion, it's Joever for Master Brawler. Never been more over. 

[Major_Decoy]

1 minute ago, FupDup said:

Here's the breakdown of the benefits of each: 

Master Brawler:

-Less attention needed (toggle)

Also less animation time.

[Chris24601]

The change to MB is super annoying because it added more endurance cost, and I lost an actually useful panic button… in exchange I got about 2% more defensive on a build already capped for Incarnate content (was c. 55%, now 57%).

 

Top it off with “can’t build opportunity outside combat” and it’s just a bad day overall (I often have to log out for work-related reasons and that always resets it to 0. Not a problem on love as it will recharge quickly… this is just…

 

This needs to go back to the drawing board.

[Frosticus]

If you want to get the most out of the absorb just sit on PB until you are low health. It can be used like a breakfree and you don't get mezd that often to begin with on an sr.

[CaffieneNirvana]

So unsurprisingly, I have a lot of thoughts. And while my gut reaction was to go 'aww, this makes Master Brawler less special and not the tool I used to have', I'll focus on another glaring problem I have with it: practicality, and play conditioning, to borrow a term from HBomberguy.

 

If I had to guess, the reason for the Practiced/Master Brawler effect reshuffle was to make a power that was infamously a nightmare for the devs into something easier to proliferate. But in addition to taking away a tool I adored having to flip clutch situations on my Sentinels, it feels like it's imparting a troublesome incentive to how you use Practiced.

 

Am I supposed to wait until I'm at low health to hit my mez protection clickable now? Instead of leaving it on auto as I'm accustomed to? Or am I just supposed to use it willy-nilly, and take whatever I get? Because in the latter's case, it somewhat renders the 'more absorb at low HP' aspect a bit of a novelty. Just make it give a flat amount of absorb at that point. Sure, it'd be less exciting and strategic, but it wouldn't encourage you to risk faceplanting, since getting mezzed is *extremely* dangerous for a set that's dependent upon its defense.

 

And Master now just being a mez toggle...well. I appreciate the idea, but again, it's not quite as enjoyable as that old interplay of just having a power to hit in case of emergencies. To have more absorb at lower health, which then played *beautifully* off of Super Reflexes' auto powers granting resistance at low current health, since the absorb didn't undo that. It would be nice if it could still be done by untoggling the power to accomplish the same effect, but with a MUCH shorter duration for the absorb versus Practiced's. Perhaps giving it a longer (15s? 20s-ish?) recharge time, and making the absorb only last that long. If it could have tailing mez protection along with it, that would be swell, as well, but I understand wanting it to have *some* downside to incentivize players taking Practiced. Alternatively, make the absorb and trailing mez last 20s, and bump Master's recharge to 60s when untoggled.

 

And to reiterate what I said elsewhere...man it's a bloody shame we're losing all our long-lived tier 9s. The crashes could suck, sure, but they could still be used to flip situations, and would have been even more useful with the new difficulties than ever before. But, alas. Though on that note...

 

On 12/6/2025 at 12:56 PM, Night said:

3. Try out the idea of applying a form of adaptable recharge into the T9s and turn them into Incarnate Hybrid-style toggles that have a maximum duration (2 minutes and 3 minutes depending on T9, as they have now) but can be detoggled early for reduced recharge time. So that each second of use adds one second of recharge time. Meaning that if you toggle a T9 for 30 seconds, it goes on a 30 second cooldown, but you can also toggle it for its full duration of 2 minutes or 3 minutes depending on the T9, with their full current scaling and all current benefits, and afterwards let it go on a 2 and 3 minute recharge respectively. It could be adjusted so that the power has a base recharge of ~30s onto which use-time is added, so that if you use the T9 for 10 seconds, the recharge time is 40 seconds, and so on, but that's for later.

I love this idea to pieces. And although I KNOW I'm talking crazy here as a crash apologist, it could be cool if letting it go over certain thresholds had their own drawbacks, like you 'pushed' yourself too far or too hard. Honestly, the only thing about crashes I despise is when they nix your endurance recovery to 0%, and I feel like that could be revisited as reducing max endurance for the same duration instead, which would indirectly cripple your recovery without nixing it altogether.

 

If these crashes also had additional magnitudes depending on threshold passed, that could be neat. Nothing *worse* than what we have already, just up to it, with lesser ones if toggled off earlier, or none at all if done in the 30~40s 'bursts'.

[ItashuLead]

On 12/7/2025 at 7:50 PM, Night said:

Making those T9s mutually exclusive with the current ones would be the best option. An even better option would be doing that, and simply removing the crash from the current T9s and doing nothing else and nerfing nothing else about them at all.

Having read your post on T9s, I wholeheartedly agree that ideally, we still have access to ALL the previous T9s.  Including the ones already patched out.

 

I understand them having had a crash, but if they were going to keep in any kind of crash, ideally it wouldn't be one that means instant death.  To take a page out of Willpower's handbook, -End is much more palatable than -100% Recovery.

 

To respond more directly to SR's changes here, in regards to the T9, I am very disappointed to see those changes.  Elude is one of my golden goose powers. I love it.  I have a Titan/SR scrapper I love to pieces for simply popping Elude, and running around like an absolutely crazy person whacking and smacking people with a giant sword.  It lasts 3 minutes!  A bad crash, sure.  But.  If the goal was, not enough people are taking these... Make a variant.

 

And I have to say, the durations of these trimmed T9s are not long enough.  And they don't feel designed around the original set's power.  Elude snipped down to 30 seconds does not compute to me.  Elude was one of the longest T9s for a reason - it doesn't buff Resists.  It simply ensures you have enough Defense Debuff Res and Defense to where you can't easily be debuffed to less than 50% Defense in all positional defenses as long as you're slotted enough.

 

It was a long T9 because it wasn't as meaty.

 

It was a long T9 because if you DID get hit, it hurt, and terribly so.

 

The trimmed T9s with no crashes should at least mimic the original design's philosophies.  Elude was long? Okay, maybe it lasts 1 minute, 30 seconds.  Duration was as key to the identity of each T9 as their differentiated buffs and effects on duration end.

 

 

[Captain Powerhouse]

Note on the Crashing T9 power changes:

 

We have decided to roll these changes back. At least at this point there are no plans to revisit them in the future. That of course might always be subject to change.

 

Due to the holiday break, not sure when the rollback will be hitting the open beta server, so if anyone still wants to play around with the current versions for any reason you might have a few days to do so.

 

We are and will continue to monitor feedback through these threads for other changes and address fixes and/or iterate as we can. Do note nothing is considered final until it reaches release candidate status.

[Captain Powerhouse]

While here I noticed some feedback on practiced/master brawer I want to touch on:

 

First off, we are trying to keep the active/click as the power that adds more benefits by virtue of requiring monitoring and timing. Master Brawler being a toggle is enough in my opinion for it to not need an additional edge over Practiced Brawler. SR is still a VERY strong set though, so we don't want to make the absorb on this new click too strong.

 

On existing sentinels: I intentionally looked into preserving builds as much as possible and ran with the assumption that people picking master brawler did so more for the toggle-based mez prot than the absorb. I can see how that can result in a more disruptive change due to enhancements. If you feel these existing sentinels should instead have their master brawler converted to the click Practiced Brawler so their build faces less disruption, that can be done. With the caveat though, that these builds will now rely on the click for mez protection.

 

If enough players consider either too disruptive, there is always the possibility of rolling back the changes be it for further consideration or scrapping the changes.