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Archetype Concepts: Compilation


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I am compiling archetypes so that you can easily find what is already out there and perhaps we can get a discussion going about viability and more popular options moving forward. In terms of formatting, I am starting off with the name and a date stamp which acts as a link. This is followed by the primary/secondary combo, inherent, and a very short description.

 

I am organizing them by primary power set Assault, Melee, Ranged, Pet, Support, Manipulation, Armor, Control, then mashup.

 

Marshal (19.05.23.13.29.47.01)

Assault/Pet

[placeholder]: Scaling resistance for main and pets based on nearby enemies.

This is a shock and awe set that focuses on running in and absorbing the alpha and then fading in the background for cleanup.

 

Instigator Take 2 (19.07.27.22.25.xx)

Assault/Armor

Instigation & Resolve: They have an inherent punchvoke ability, Instigation, similar to Tankers, they also have a secondary inherent that provides stacks of absorb while out of combat.

Instigators are mobile meat shields in the truest sense. Tankers are frontline tanks, Brutes are scrapperlocked tanks, Instigators go to where the aggro is (stupid Blaster AoEs).

 

The Duo (19.06.07.16.09.36)

Assault/{Pet/Armor/Support}

Partnership: +DMG +ToHit in proximity to pet. Share power effects with pet.

The Duo is an AT that is focused on working strongly with a single pet partner and balancing the burden with them.

 

The Warden (19.07.10.16.18.03)

Assault/{Support/Control}

[placeholder]: Defensive bonus against status-affected foes. Increased length for status effects.

Wardens are jacks-of-all-trades in that they have a little melee, a little ranged, a little support, and a little control.

 

Operative (19.09.24.06.34.01)

Assault/{Armor/Manipulation/Control}

Preparation: Low threat level, stealth (weak), and a bar that constantly builds but is reduced by attacks - grants improved secondary effects

Operatives are strategic agents that have many skills that they must strategically employ to be effective. They use a Manipulation secondary that has been bolstered by a modicum of armor and control for survival.

 

Instigator (19.05.27.09.36.28)

Assault/{Armor/Control}

Toggle (Stalwart, Striker, Support): Stalwart acts like Power Boost, Striker damage bonus, Support converts toggles to AoE and adds an AoE heal chance to attacks.

Instigators are less jack-of-all-trades than gapfills. They have the versatility to change roles as per what the team needs. They are what people who don't play Kheldians think Kheldians are.

 

Kamikaze (19.08.29.22.14.07)

Melee/Ranged

[placeholder]:

Assault on crack.

 

Tankermind (19.06.26.05.17.xx)

Melee/Pet

Lead by Example: Heals shared with pets, damage bonus for untargeted pets.

Tankerminds are frontline generals that bring their own army.

 

Captain (19.05.27.02.57.28)

Melee/Support

Tactical Advantage: Enemies within 15' act as a power boost, allies in the range increase regeneration and defense.

Captains are frontline fighters that support their teammates from within the fray.

 

Regulator (19.08.13.12.54.xx)

Melee/Support*

Regulation: Can build regulation through engagement. Upon filling the bar, can activate either a +Res(Self) -Dam(Enemy) or +Dam(Self) -Res(Enemy) aura.

Regulators are frontline combatants that optimize their personal and team dynamic for the situation.

 

Defiler (19.06.09.22.12.59)

Melee/{Support/Armor}

[placeholder]: A defensive bonus which decreases with teammates paired with a secondary effect bonus which increases with teammates.

Defilers are focused on debuffing enemies and buffing allies from the fray.

 

Protector (19.07.25.00.33.xx)

Melee/{Support/Armor}

Honor & Glory: Glory builds stacks through melee attacks and dissipates through inaction or use of buffs, it grants increased buff efficacy.

Protectors juggle between support and dps providing teammates with much-needed support while also helping out with clearing the field.

 

Interceptor (19.07.25.19.29.xx)

Melee/{Support/Armor}

Full Force: A power boost combined with flat damage critical-like mechanism.

Imagine if a scrapper were more of a team player.

 

Assaulter (19.06.12.13.01.17.02)

Ranged/Pet

Group Distraction: Main aggro is diverted to pets.

Assaulters are glass cannons that bring their own mobile meat shields.

 

Deadeye (20.01.31.11.06)

Ranged/{Support/Armor}

Neutralization: Crit while hidden or while enemy is CCed

Deadeye are single target snipers that take down their prey before they even know they are prey.

 

The Warlord (19.07.10.13.07.18)

Pet/Melee

Elite Guard: Warlord pets have a taunt attached to their attacks. In addition, pets provide a defense and resistance buff to the Warlord. Warlord damage heals pets.

The Warlord leads the charge and motivates through example.


Tactician (19.06.12.13.01.17.01)

Pet/Control

Attacks of Opportunity: Pets do additional damage to controlled targets.

Tacticians focus on disabling enemies for a form of controlled chaos.

 

Dissident (19.08.29.22.14.05)

Pet/Control

[placeholder]:

A set designed to unleash the hordes onto the battlefield.

 

The Paladin (19.07.20.23.47.10)

Support/Melee

Zeal: Provides HoT and Def, which increases with enemy engagement

This is a melee support class with sufficient sustainability to be in the fray, but not enough to tank.

 

Guardian (19.05.23.15.57.29)

Support/Melee

Coverage: Ally buffs also buff the Guardian. Scaling HP boost per nearby enemies.

Guardians offer support from within the fray.

 

Bulwark (19.08.02.11.18.xx)

Support/Melee

{Positive/Negative} Reinforcement: Use of support boosts the effects of support while decreasing damage and to hit, attacks boost damage and to hit, but decrease the efficacy of support.

Bulwarks are front-line support, offering buffs and debuffs from within the fray

 

Zoomer (19.07.25.22.56.xx)

Manipulation/Assault

Zoom: Personal +SPD for ranged, enemy -SPD for melee, and increased speed cap.

Zoomers offer the feel of playing a speedster while providing access to two AT-specific power sets that are versatile an fun.

 

Manipulator (19.05.23.13.29.47.02)

Manipulation/Control

Edge: Non-stacking defense/resistance debuff for specific damage types, with a weak general secondary debuff.

Manipulators are a buff/debuff focused controlling AT.

 

The Bastion (19.07.10.16.20.04)

Armor/Ranged

Shield Wall: Damage to nearby teammates is shared with Bastion

Bastions are backline tanks, protecting the blasters, defenders, and controllers from insurgent line penetrators.

 

Safeguard (19.08.29.22.14.04)

Armor/Support

[placeholder]:

Safeguards are there to offer you a helping hand and keep you alive.

 

The Commander (19.09.06.22.04.01)

Armor/Control

Command: Chance for increased magnitude control based on nearby enemies & increased damage based on how many enemies have been controlled.

The ultimate mitigator, Commanders take blows and control the battlefield.

 

Commander (19.08.29.22.14.06)

Armor/{Melee/Pet}

[placeholder]:

A tanky Wolf Spider.

 

Tank-Mage (19.05.23.17.14.14)

Armor/{Control/Melee}

[placeholder]:

A tank that focuses on both aggro management and controlling enemies through, well, controlling enemies.

 

Adaptor (19.08.29.22.14.08)

{Assault/Manipulation}/{Armor/Melee*} (it is unclear if this is Stalker Melee with Armor mixed secondary, or a Stalker Armor secondary.

[placeholder]:

A jack of all trades.

 

Infested Infiltrator (19.07.13.09.46.25)

{Melee/Pet}*/Armor*

[placeholder]:

EAT similar to a Wolf Spider but with a more alien feel.

 

Mech Commander (19.09.01.04.11.01)

{Ranged/Pet}/{Pet/Support}

[placeholder]:

(E?)AT that allows you to enhance your abilities through powered vehicles and supportive call-downs.

 

The Incarnate (19.10.11.18.14.01)

{Assault, Melee, Ranged, Pet, Support, Manipulation, Armor, or Control}/{Assault, Melee, Ranged, Pet, Support, Manipulation, Armor, or Control}

Undiminished: No diminishing returns on IOs, also has the inherent of the chosen primary AT

You wanted OP? I'll show you OP...

 

Rikti Soldier (19.10.11.07.54.01)

Melee*/Armor*

Hive Mind: Bonus damage v Rikti (weakness to Rikti damage)
A playable Rikti Soldier.

Edited by Zepp
Added Rikti Soldier
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Archetype Concept Compilation -- Powerset Concept Compilations: Assault Melee

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The Great Archetype Concept Battle: Final Round

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Archetype Proposal Amalgamation

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As a note: I went through 44 pages of posts, it is highly likely that I missed something, especially if it isn't in an OP. Please give me a heads up if there is a proposal that needs to be added or updated. Also please rank according to:

 

Feasibility: 1 (difficult to balance, requires a large amount of set development, etc.) to 10 (could be in-game tomorrow)

Niche: 1 (is already addressed by another AT) to 10 (there is a hole in the game that this would fill)

Interest: 1 (I wouldn't play it) to 10 (I plan to make at least 20 alts in this AT)

Archetype Concept Compilation -- Powerset Concept Compilations: Assault Melee

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The Great Archetype Concept Battle: Final Round

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Archetype Proposal Amalgamation

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The Duo, a melee, pets, support class.  Which I'd rank at something like Feasibility 3, Niche 10, Interest 9.

 

Added to the OP. Sorry, posts shift position and I missed some on the first and second run-through.

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Just a little run-through:

Set              Pr      Se      MU Pr MU Se
Assault 3 0 1 0
Melee 2 3 1 1
Ranged 1 1 0 0
Pet 2 2 2 0

Support

Manipulation

2

1

1

0

0

0

3

0

Armor 2 1 0 3
Control 0 2 0 3

 

Melee is the most popular, being proposed for primary twice, secondary thrice, one primary mashup, and one secondary mashup.

 

Pet is following behind strongly with two proposal each as a primary, secondary, and primary mashup.

 

However, Support is not too far behind, being proposed for primary thrice, secondary once, and thrice as a secondary mashup.

 

The most popular primaries for AT concepts are Assault and Support.

The most popular secondary is Melee.

 

A Melee or Assault and Pet mashup primary seems to have some support, while Support and Armor seems to be a popular mashup as a secondary.

 

Melee/Support or Support/Melee is a recurring concept, the idea of frontline support seeming to be the biggest hole in the current spread of ATs. On the other hand, there is also an apparent need for a rearguard tank to support ranged squishies in their defense.

 

I'd say something similar to the The Paladin (perhaps increasing based on buffs rather than enemy engagement for the inherent) would likely be the highest ranking for feasibility and niche. Although, the popularity of expanding Assault beyond a single AT would also lead me to suggest that a Support/Assault version would be more likely to get traction.

 

What I would like to play is something akin to the Tank-Mage, but perhaps make it a straight Armor/Control set, perhaps increasing damage scaling for Controllers and Tank-Mages. Maybe a chance to increase the magnitude that scales with the number of proximal enemies would be a feasible inherent.

 

That being said, a really popular and highly infeasible AT would be an {Assault/Pet}/{Support/Armor} AT similar to The Duo.

 

Edited by Zepp
Added Manipulation

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16 hours ago, Pbuckley818 said:

I just added ANOTHER Melee Fender Idea to the Forums. It's called Exemplar. It's a bit Half baked at the moment, but if you think it's worth adding, It'd be much appreciated.

Added, sorry about the timestamp and color being a little off. The new forum style does not have full time stamps, so it lost the second parameter. In addition, the lack of html made me have to guestimate the color. The colors were initially based on the average of the colors of the subsets, unfortunately, without those colors hexcodes I couldn't figure out the exact average, and copying from the Defiler led to breaking of the link (or adding the link would break the color). So I did the best I could.

I hope the description successfully translates your intent in a succinct manner.

 

I just realized, some posts and edits were lost in the transfer. I am also changing Manipulator from Support to Manipulation.

Edited by Zepp
from "I just realized"
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Hmmm...

 

This thread leads me to question a single important thing:

 

What kinds of AT do we actually need?

 

While the current setup doesn't follow the traditional "Holy Trinity" of MMOs (Adding in a Pet Spec and a Control Concept changes things a lot) there's still roles to be had on a given team. 

 

We basically have 2 'Tanks' in Tankers and Brutes. 2 Controllers in Dominators and Controllers. 4 Support in Defenders, Masterminds, Controllers, and Corrupters. 3 Melee DPS in Brutes, Stalkers, and Scrappers. 2 Ranged DPS in Corruptors and Blasters. And 1 Pet type (Arguably 2 if you count Controllers) in Masterminds.

 

The Sentinel provides another Ranged Damage AT. So we've got 3 of those, now.

 

But we also have the EATs, heroic and villainous, which both bridge over some roles to varying degrees. Both Arachnos ATs provide some support, some melee, some ranged, and some control. The Kheldians provide damage, support, and controls (to different degrees).

 

What we really need isn't another Melee character or Support character. Support has 4 and Melee has 3. What we need is a new tank.

 

... Gonna need to write one up. And I already have a nifty way of doing it in mind.

Instigator: Take Two!

 

Edited by Steampunkette
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The way I see it, there's three Pillars: Damage, Tank, and Support. I'll classify this by:

  • Damage: Dealing damage to foes, directly OR indirectly
  • Tank: Protecting vulnerable allies from enemy damage and debuffs, through crowd control or taunts.
  • Support: Mitigate damage and debuffs, and keep your team able to perform. Generally, a Tank role requires external help in the form of a support.

 

Each archetype either fully focuses on a pillar, or spreads their power budget across them to varying degrees.

 

Pure Damage Pure Tank Pure Support Damage/Tank Damage/Support Tank/Support All
Stalker Tanker Defender Brute Corrupter Controller ** Mastermind ***
Blaster     Dominator **      
Scrapper            
Sentinel*          

 

 

* I put Sentinel as pure damage. Even though they deal mediocre damage, between defense and range, they're the safest damage dealer. Plus, their inherent power means they amplify ally damage. Indirect damage!

** Might be controversial. They "tank" exclusively through crowd control. Some people would consider that part of the Support role, not the Tank one.

*** Leans towards Damage/Support. Therefore, there's room in this column for one that leans Tank/Support and one that leans Damage/Tank too.

 

I also excluded VEATs because I'm not too familiar with them (plus, aren't they somewhat versatile?).

 

Do note that while there's 4 Pure Damage archetypes, they all do them in different ways. Sentinels benefit more from having high damage allies to exploit their inherent. Blasters have greater need of a Tank than Scrappers. Stalkers shine better when priority targets need killing. It's totally possible for there to be a new Pure Damage archetype that doesn't step on the toes of the other four.

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Control is not Tanking. Control is Control.

 

A Tank does 3 big things: Manages Aggro, Takes Attacks, Mitigates the damage they take from the aggro.

 

You could -argue- that Control locks down aggro, but it doesn't, actually. The aggro is still present. It's still being generated by everything everyone does to that controlled target. When the control breaks, the target is unleashed and goes after whoever has their aggro (Like when Purple Triangles pop up on an AV).

 

Support heals damage, buffs you to prevent damage from coming in, or debuffs the enemy to reduce damage coming in by a specific amount. Defense does the same thing but for a single character. This is Partial Mitigation.

 

Control is the only form of Absolute Mitigation. Control doesn't reduce the amount of damage an attack does by 30% or increase your HP so the attack means less. It just stops attacks from ever happening.

 

If you're going to create "Pillars" then you need four of them. 

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The AT Idea I had and posted on the old forums, before the shutdown, was the Vanguard.

 

Vanguard would be a combat focused Assault/Armor class that would be intended to bring a similar playstyle as VEATs allowing for mixed ranged/melee offense combined with survivability. It would be a very straightforward class with a passive called "Versatility" that was just it's strong stat scalars, again similar to the VEATs. It would have scrapper max health, and defense stat scalars. It would have 1.0 melee/ranged Scalar, and an 85% cap for resists.

 

The Vanguard would have no inherent taunt effects in it's powers. It's only goal to bring the style of play with the VEATs and to some extent the HEATs to a more varied and customizable platform. 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

Control is the only form of Absolute Mitigation. Control doesn't reduce the amount of damage an attack does by 30% or increase your HP so the attack means less. It just stops attacks from ever happening.

 

This is kinda why I said it was controversial. The way I see it: control reduces the need for a tank, not for a support. In many PvP games, tanks use control since they can't rely on aggro.

 

It just feels like another form of mitigation, just like how damage can be subdivided into ranged/melee, or sustained/burst, or single target/AoE.

Edited by Varkarrus
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1 hour ago, Varkarrus said:

 

This is kinda why I said it was controversial. The way I see it: control reduces the need for a tank, not for a support. In many PvP games, tanks use control since they can't rely on aggro.

 

It just feels like another form of mitigation, just like how damage can be subdivided into ranged/melee, or sustained/burst, or single target/AoE.

By that logic damage-dealing is a form of mitigation after all if an enemy is dead it can't hit you anymore. 

 

The true fact is that all game functions for combat can be broken down into two clocks Time to Kill and Time to Die. your goal is to make the time to kill clock shorter than the time to die clock. You can do this by making the time to die clock longer through damage mitigation in the form of heals, buffs, debuffs, controls, and defenses or by making the time to kill clock shorter through damage-dealing buffing and debuffing.

 

But that's not really a useful expression of what the archetypes do. Which is why we separate them out as much as we do! Use control as its own pillar because it is functionally different than tanking or supporting even though they all three increase the duration of the time to die clock.

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17 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

By that logic damage-dealing is a form of mitigation after all if an enemy is dead it can't hit you anymore.

Heh, technically you're not wrong. It's just not instant; you might have to spend several seconds or more dealing damage to an enemy before the "mitigation" kicks in. But if you've got enough overwhelming damage, then you don't really need a tank!

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Well this is embarrassing, I had forgotten what it is called in game when you down level to play with your lowbie buddies. "You are Exemplared" this makes my AT concepts name awkward, and mildly confusing, So I am changing it from Exemplar to Protector.

 

I will add that I like your description a lot, it summarizes the archetype a lot better than anything I said on the original thread.

Edited by Pbuckley818
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My Archetype, the Duo, has had some substantial changes as I've been prototyping and testing it, the most relevant of which is that the Pet is now in the secondary set instead of the primary.

 

But it's coming along really well! I even have the Inherent mostly working!

Edited by malonkey1
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I've been keeping track. I'll try and update it on this list soon(tm).

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Archetype Concept Compilation -- Powerset Concept Compilations: Assault Melee

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I've updated the list with the changes to Duo and Protector. I'm interested in a lot of these ideas (especially Zoomer), but I've been wondering if anyone is interested in a set of polls to choose the most popular ideas to push for a possible new AT?

Archetype Concept Compilation -- Powerset Concept Compilations: Assault Melee

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The Great Archetype Concept Battle: Final Round

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Archetype Proposal Amalgamation

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1 hour ago, Pbuckley818 said:

Might be cool, maybe it will draw more attention to some of the different ideas. Or everyone just vote for their own. Be nice if you could enforce a don't vote for your own idea policy. Though I guess we could just go full honor system.

If we're feeling extra spicy we could do a bracket.

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ATB1.thumb.JPG.30591fb374da8ca0bafbd4e5de4c369e.JPG

 

Alright, I put together a bracket with seeds determined by timestamp. My plan is to run up to four polls at a time and work our way to the final battle!

Voting based, in principle, on Feasibility, Niche, & Interest (as outlined in the second post of this thread). If people are down, we can start the first polls soon, leave them open for a week and then see where that leaves us...

 

Sorry it took me so long to put this together malonkey1, I had to get the colors just right...

Edited by Zepp
Adding apologies
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Archetype Concept Compilation -- Powerset Concept Compilations: Assault Melee

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49 minutes ago, Zepp said:

ATB1.thumb.JPG.30591fb374da8ca0bafbd4e5de4c369e.JPG

 

Alright, I put together a bracket with seeds determined by timestamp. My plan is to run up to four polls at a time and work our way to the final battle!

Voting based, in principle, on Feasibility, Niche, & Interest (as outlined in the second post of this thread). If people are down, we can start the first polls soon, leave them open for a week and then see where that leaves us...

 

Sorry it took me so long to put this together malonkey1, I had to get the colors just right...

Well that was pretty fast. Honestly I love this idea! Guess I gotta go clean up the Protector some more.

Edited by Pbuckley818
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Tell you what, I'll saw we start in about one week. That will give anyone that wants a chance to clean up their champions the chance to do so. I will open the first surveys at 00:00.00-ish Osaka Time on Monday August 12th. That gives you about 12 and a half hours shy of a week to prepare.

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Archetype Concept Compilation -- Powerset Concept Compilations: Assault Melee

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The Great Archetype Concept Battle: Final Round

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Archetype Proposal Amalgamation

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