Which Control Hybrid Power do you choose and why?

[Tamorand]

I'm wondering what the controllers are choosing out there regarding the Control Hybrid Incarnate power?

Personally I've been going the Control Core Embodiment, but on a second toon with similar controls and build that extra +1 Mag seems like it might not be as useful as the control Radial Embodiment.
It's difficult to quantify the benefit as we also crit control on occasion.

What do you think?   I haven't seen a lot of discussion about the control hybrid but it seems to be a regular pick for controllers.

 

Thanks

Tamorand

EDIT - I have no idea why this post is a lovely shade of light blue.....

 

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Control Core Embodiment

Toggle: Chance for Psionic Damage (Special), Chance for +1 Magnitude

 

Toggle: Chance for +1 Mag to Controls, Chance for Psionic damage to Controlled enemies. This ability gives a 75% chance for its effects to occur when their conditions are met. Equipping this Hybrid power grants a passive boost to Status Resistance at all times.

 

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Control Radial Embodiment

Toggle: Chance for Fear, Chance for Immobilize, Chance for Stun (Special)

 

Toggle: Adds a Chance for Fear and a Chance for Immobilize to most damaging powers. This ability gives a 70% chance for its effects to occur on each hit. If your target is already Immobilized and Feared, you have an additional 100% chance to stun that target. Equipping this Hybrid power grants a passive boost to Status Resistance at all times.

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Tamorand

[Bionic_Flea]

I go Core on some controllers, Fire for instance.  The +1 mag on top of controllers' built in chance to proc a +1 Mag means I can frequently hold bosses in just one application.  Mezzed critters get double damage due to containment and then extra psy damage on top of that.  The reason I mention Fire as my example is that it has both flashfire and fire cages as AoE mezzes.  Those would both set up the conditions for control core to give the extra damage.

 

I have not yet tried control radial and cannot think of a good reason to do so, except, perhaps, to create more opportunities to achieve containment.  So far though, I have preferred to take Control Core or Assault, or Support over Control Radial.

 

For dominators I usually go for Assault or Support.

[HoundsTooth]

2 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I go Core on some controllers, Fire for instance.  The +1 mag on top of controllers' built in chance to proc a +1 Mag means I can frequently hold bosses in just one application.  Mezzed critters get double damage due to containment and then extra psy damage on top of that.  The reason I mention Fire as my example is that it has both flashfire and fire cages as AoE mezzes.  Those would both set up the conditions for control core to give the extra damage.

 

Is it reliable enough? I considered Core on my Fire/Dark, but I didn't think it would be useful. Fire Cages sets up containment without the extra mez. You need the +1 mag for bosses, but the proc is random so you are just as likely to double up on minions and lieutenants. 

[subbacultchas]

Sad to say, I have never taken this hybrid on any of my controllers or dominators.  Usually by 50 I've got my single target holds slotted with extra hold procs, so the 1% is not so necessary. In the case of mass confuses, Coercive handles that really well too. So I really struggle to find a need for it late-game, where control seems to be pretty low on demand compared to damage/buffs/debuffs.

[Tamorand]

1 hour ago, HoundsTooth said:

 

Is it reliable enough? I considered Core on my Fire/Dark, but I didn't think it would be useful. Fire Cages sets up containment without the extra mez. You need the +1 mag for bosses, but the proc is random so you are just as likely to double up on minions and lieutenants. 

That was my initial thoughts too.   it has a 75% chance to proc so it IS pretty often that it's going off.   It sometimes feels like it's going off all the time.
The question, is it wasted on a controller?  Who, with 2 applications of any of our AOE Immob's should lock down all but the bosses and half the time it get's the bosses too.  Containment is almost guaranteed baring the obvious exceptions.

Has anyone out there actually tried Radial?   Obviously on a team that just plows through content, anything that takes multiple applications to get a benefit from will not be ideal.  But what about solo?
Fire/Dark can provide the Immob/Fear component to guarantee a stun from the use of any of your attacks and for the duration of the immob and fear that stun keeps refreshing (Stacking MAG?)

From a grouping standpoint, I suspect that any fear/immob from the group counts.  So depending on the group makeup you could, with proper planning, create an environment where it procs pretty much non stop.  A Duo with Immob and fear in their sets would do well with this Hybrid.

Just some running thoughts.
At the end of the day, I'd be curious where you get the most bang for your buck from all of the Hybrids.
 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Tamorand

[Bionic_Flea]

I thought it was good enough.  You get the word "Waylay" floating when you trigger the proc and I see it a lot.

[subbacultchas]

So would anyone actually suggest this over Assault? I've got a plant/dark that's currently running with Assault, but I'm open to changing that.

[Bionic_Flea]

It won't do anything for confuse, and I don't think it will do anything for carrion creepers, but not sure.  But it would help Roots, Vines, Entangle, Strangler and midnight grasp.

[Dr Causality]

I agree with Bionic Flea that for Plant Control Control Radial wouldn't be of that much value since it does not damage and wouldn't benefit your opener Seeds.      But I too would definitely like to know if the Control Hybrids are passed on to summons?   And if so, do you have to have it toggled on when you summon?   Or will it retroactively buff the pets?     Do the pets get a copy of the toggle with the same expiration time as you have?   Or will they keep it on until they die?    I may eventually test myself, but I keep hoping someone else will do it and post the results.   🙂

 

 

Being able to stack mag5 Stuns seemed totally broken to me at first blush, so I did some very brief testing of Control Radial on the Beta server and found limitations that make it a more niche power choice.   It should have been obvious, the Radial Mezzes only have a duration of 10s.    You need to stack (1) for Immob, a (2nd) for Fear, then  a (3rd) for the 1st Mag5 stun.    So you need to get three powers off in under 10s,  including cast times.  A lot of aoe powers having 2 and even 3+ second cast times.    I had been wanting to use this on my Crab with the insanely wide cones they get, but those are all 3s cast times.   But it's even worse than that.  The Immob and Fear are only Mag2, so you will need to stack two of them for Lieutenants and bosses.   Meaning if you don't start off with an Immob or Fear, then you'll need 2 attacks for Immob, another 2 more for the Fear and before the 5th attack will stun.   Five aoe attacks in under 10s, is a much higher bar and  will require very specific builds.   Now consider these are only 70% proc chances for the Immob and Fear, that means there's roughly a 76% chance one or more of those first four attack proc attempts will miss, meaning you actually most often need at least 6 attacks in under 10s....    The bar is starting to get pretty high and I can see why Bionic Flea might say not worth it....

 

Further possible limitations I wasn't able to test on the Crab.   Sure you can stack the Radial power up to 5 times and the Stun is an impressive Mag5.    But how does the stacking work?    Can you only stack 5 total Control Radials?   Or can you stack 5x each, so 5x the Immob, 5x the Fear and 5x the Stun mezzes?      The difference could greatly complicate reliably using it as a source of crowd control....

 

[Mercurias]

I think it depends on your power selection and playstyle.

 

My Grav/Time Controller went for the Assault Hybrid. It already has strong controls and softcapped defenses, so added more damage felt like the right place to go.

 

I could see a controller that wants to go up close for powers like Time's Juncture, Hot Feet, and Seismic Smash might use the Melee Radial Hybrid that grants extra defense and mez protection.

 

It might be fun to play a Dark controller that uses the Control Radial Embodiment. They already have Fear and Immobilize powers baked into the primary, so it would essentially turn your Hybrid power into an I-Stun-All-The-Things button. I would totally play that. 

[dtj714]

On 10/8/2019 at 8:17 PM, Dr Causality said:

I agree with Bionic Flea that for Plant Control Control Radial wouldn't be of that much value since it does not damage and wouldn't benefit your opener Seeds.      But I too would definitely like to know if the Control Hybrids are passed on to summons?   And if so, do you have to have it toggled on when you summon?   Or will it retroactively buff the pets?     Do the pets get a copy of the toggle with the same expiration time as you have?   Or will they keep it on until they die?    I may eventually test myself, but I keep hoping someone else will do it and post the results.   🙂

 

 

Being able to stack mag5 Stuns seemed totally broken to me at first blush, so I did some very brief testing of Control Radial on the Beta server and found limitations that make it a more niche power choice.   It should have been obvious, the Radial Mezzes only have a duration of 10s.    You need to stack (1) for Immob, a (2nd) for Fear, then  a (3rd) for the 1st Mag5 stun.    So you need to get three powers off in under 10s,  including cast times.  A lot of aoe powers having 2 and even 3+ second cast times.    I had been wanting to use this on my Crab with the insanely wide cones they get, but those are all 3s cast times.   But it's even worse than that.  The Immob and Fear are only Mag2, so you will need to stack two of them for Lieutenants and bosses.   Meaning if you don't start off with an Immob or Fear, then you'll need 2 attacks for Immob, another 2 more for the Fear and before the 5th attack will stun.   Five aoe attacks in under 10s, is a much higher bar and  will require very specific builds.   Now consider these are only 70% proc chances for the Immob and Fear, that means there's roughly a 76% chance one or more of those first four attack proc attempts will miss, meaning you actually most often need at least 6 attacks in under 10s....    The bar is starting to get pretty high and I can see why Bionic Flea might say not worth it....

 

Further possible limitations I wasn't able to test on the Crab.   Sure you can stack the Radial power up to 5 times and the Stun is an impressive Mag5.    But how does the stacking work?    Can you only stack 5 total Control Radials?   Or can you stack 5x each, so 5x the Immob, 5x the Fear and 5x the Stun mezzes?      The difference could greatly complicate reliably using it as a source of crowd control....

 

I’ve been looking for this type of info for a while, guess I didn’t read my search results carefully the first time. 
 

So, to confirm how radial works, each use of a damaging power has a chance to apply a status effect. At the higher tiers, multiple effects can be applied, but they work via a stacking mechanic, as opposed to a single attack having the designated chance to apply each effect. All status effects have a duration of 10 seconds, and the Fear and Immobilize are mag 2, while the stun is mag 5.

 

So, let’s say you attack with Radial Embodiment active. The first attack has a 70% chance to apply a mag 2 Fear for 10 seconds, which means it will only actually effect minions, but the status is applied to anything on which it procs. The next attack, if made within 10 seconds, will have a 70% chance to apply a  10 sec mag 2 Immobilize to anything currently having the Fear status, as well as a 70% chance to apply the Fear status to anything not currently having it. Finally, a third attack, if made within 10 seconds of the first, will automatically apply a 10 sec mag 5 Stun to anything with both the Fear and Immobilize status (so bosses and lieutenants are effected by the Stun, even though they weren’t by the prior statuses), and will have a 70% chance to apply either of the Fear/Immobilize status, depending on which, if any, status is currently on the target.

 

Is all of the above correct?  Is there anything I’m missing or that could be further clarified?  What about multiple procs of the same status (i.e., the lower tiers)?  Does the status stack, refresh, or get ignored?  I was hoping that each attack had the designated chance to proc each status, as opposed to one at a time, but apparently that’s not how it works.

[Darkneblade]

I chosen radial for my dark/dark then never activating them because not much damaging attacks that way. Then I got a core and I always activate before fights now.

So if you have too many control powers but less attack powers go for core. If you have too many attack powers but less control (I'm looking at you Illusion) go for radial for maximum effectiveness.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Darkneblade

[Without_Pause]

On 8/5/2019 at 4:20 PM, Tamorand said:

EDIT - I have no idea why this post is a lovely shade of light blue.....

Did you copy/paste this from somewhere? It is the only reason I can think of.