An Update from The Homecoming Team

[ShardWarrior]

5 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

There is no thin line.  There is no exact, razor-edged point dividing "homage" from "copycat".  The simple rule is, the closer you get to being a direct copy, the greater the risk that you get TOO close."

Personally, I disagree.  One could argue that any Mutant Claw/Regen scrapper is "too close for comfort".

 

I can only speak for myself here - as a child when we played and tied red capes to our necks and pretended to fly and leap tall buildings, we weren't pretending to be "generic superhero 132ZXDFG".  I don't begrudge anyone their homages. 

Edited August 16, 2019 by ShardWarrior

[PaxArcana]

1 hour ago, Lunchmoney said:

Do you have evidence for that?

Not that I preserved for years, no.  But, for myself ... yes, absolutely.

 

See, I sometimes came across copycats.  And I would send them a /tell, politely, telling them I thought they were waaaaay too copycat, and that if a GM saw them, they'd get generic'd, losing costume and name alike.

A few said "oh, really?  I didn't kow that was a rule", and I'd talk to them about ways they could tweak their copy into being just an homage; everyone would still know what character they meant, but it'd be different enough to keep the rabid lawyers at bay.

A few told me, in no uncertain terms, to f__k off.  Those guys?  I reported, on the spot.  And also added them to my /friends list.

So that I could see, a couple days later,t hat they had turned from (say) "xXx1NCR3D1BL3HALKxXx" ... to, say, "GenericHero14227".

[PaxArcana]

4 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Personally, I disagree.  One could argue that any Mutant Claw/Regen scrapper is "too close for comfort".

There is actually a legal standard (which is far stricter than anything that Cryptic or Paragon were required to adhere to):

 

Derivative Copyright.  Anything that has 30% difference, or less, is considered infringing.

 

The "no hard rule" comes into play when one starts trying to decide "if the guy picked BLUE instead of green, how much % difference is that from the Hulk?", or "Are HALK and HULK different enough, or too close?"

 

...

 

You absolutely can make a Claws/Regen Scrapper (or Brute, for that matter), that is clearly a Wolverine homage .... with with strategically-chosen differences that should add up to that magic "more than 30%" for any reasonable reviewer.  For example .... start off making them a woman, because instead of "Wolverine", their name is "Honey Badger" (an equally scary, ferocious, tenacious small furry beast).  Give her as close a knockoff to Wolverine's classic "yellow spandex" costume ... but reverse the color scheme.  And maybe use a medium-dark grey instead of blue-black.

 

She can still be Canadian, still call people "bub", and even mutter darkly about "Scott" and "Jean" and "the Professor" when RPing.  She is clearly an homage to Wolverine.

But she is also clearly different enough not to be derivative - and yet deliberately similar enough to potentially qualify as parody (a protected kind of work).

...

See, it's hard to say "X will be a copycat", but it is NOT hard to say "Y would not be a copycat".

[Duuk]

...and then have her RP walking around looking for her alternate-dimension self.  She was in some kind of science experiment and some kind of chromosome changes happened.  She's definitely ALL XX, but she's pretty sure the other half of her got a SUPER-DOSE of the manly genes...

 

brb, rolling a claws/regen scrapper...

[ShardWarrior]

I could argue your example is too close for comfort to X-23 (and another "alternate universe" Wolverine whose name escapes me at the moment) and should get genericized. 

 

Personally, in reality I would let you have your fun with your character and not say a word, but that's me.

[jubakumbi]

Great.

 

Not only has this announcement brought out the fear and angst, but now we get to be subjected to the creative elitists and worry-warts about how to spend our super happy fun time 'properly'...

 

Where does this hate for people that like to spend thier time as a known character (cosplay) come from?

 

The HC team has specifically stated they do not care.

 

Why then are the rabble rousers trying yet again to make people feel bad for the way they choose to have fun?

What is with this whole 'I am more creative than though' BS?

 

I'll follow the rules the HC team has laid out for us - the airchair GMs can go jump.

 

Just a bunch of FUD pushers.

[justicebeliever]

4 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

I could argue your example is too close for comfort to X-23 (and another "alternate universe" Wolverine whose name escapes me at the moment) and should get genericized. 

 

Personally, in reality I would let you have your fun with your character and not say a word, but that's me.

Personally, @ShardWarriorI agree...Let people have their fun.  And we really should be, until such time as the rules change...

 

As for what's the "line"...It's pretty easy, as in many legal cases, what would a reasonable person think is crossing the line...In other words, it's a judgment call...They get made all the time with no precise definitions in many cases...

 

Given it's not our game, but rather NCSoft/Homecoming's, you'll get to live by their rules...Don't like it, then petition for a change...Still don't get your way?  Learn to live with it or choose to live a very angry person (which might put you in trouble with Marvel, since that might be a Hulk infringement) 😉

[Remidi]

Funnily enough, I once had this problem for a character that wasn't a copycat or homage.  I once had a fire/fire blaster named Lord Pyroclast.  His costume was a red and yellow armor, and I used a mask.  I kept getting people who said, "Nice Iron Man ripoff."  Now, I didn't think his armor looked like Iron Man's.  It was red and yellow, yes, but not patterned to look like his at all, and I didn't use a helmet.  My solution?  I wrote a bio about how he built the armor in his uncle's scrap yard, and spent all his time in classes to teach him how to craft the parts.  I finished it up with "bet you thought I had to be some rich guy to be able to make armor like this, huh?"

 

Never got an Iron Man remark ever again.

[MunkiLord]

30 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

A few told me, in no uncertain terms, to f__k off.  Those guys?  I reported, on the spot.  And also added them to my /friends list.

 

I completely understand not liking when someone says that to you. That being said, if a person's unsolicited advice annoys me in the slightest, this is sometimes my literal response. Not on this particular topic, as re-creating characters isn't my thing, I generally do random costumes until it's good enough then I tweak it. 

Edited August 16, 2019 by MunkiLord

[PaxArcana]

19 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

I could argue your example is too close for comfort to X-23 (and another "alternate universe" Wolverine whose name escapes me at the moment) and should get genericized. 

You could.  But I suspect you'd fail in that argument.

 

X-23 is Wolverine head to toe, "but female" (and not Canadian, and doesn't call people "bub", and doesn't have a weird love-triangle going with Scott and Jean).  And the majority of outfits I see when searching Google for her, are leather jacket, leather halter top, and leather pants, all in black.  Her spandex outfit was directly Wolverines, in blue-and-yellow - not a pattern-reversed grey and yellow.

Honey Badger would be only as close to X-23, as she is to Wolverine.  Which is to say, "about halfway".  🙂  And halfway, is safely an homage.

 

I can find exactly zero reference to any "female alternate-universe version" of Wolverine, though.  And not for wont of trying.

[Myrmidon]

34 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

Great.

 

Not only has this announcement brought out the fear and angst, but now we get to be subjected to the creative elitists and worry-warts about how to spend our super happy fun time 'properly'...

 

Where does this hate for people that like to spend thier time as a known character (cosplay) come from?

 

The HC team has specifically stated they do not care.

 

Why then are the rabble rousers trying yet again to make people feel bad for the way they choose to have fun?

What is with this whole 'I am more creative than though' BS?

 

I'll follow the rules the HC team has laid out for us - the airchair GMs can go jump.

 

Just a bunch of FUD pushers.

Personally, I could care less how many Trademarked characters run around in game. That being said, if you believe that a deal with NCSoft won’t include policing Trademarks to avoid issues with the owners, then I must ask that you share whatever psychotropic refreshment that you might be under the influence of.

[jubakumbi]

4 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

Personally, I could care less how many Trademarked characters run around in game. That being said, if you believe that a deal with NCSoft won’t include policing Trademarks to avoid issues with the owners, then I must ask that you share whatever psychotropic refreshment that you might be under the influence of.

I don't 'believe' anything.

I wait for facts to arrive.

When they do, we can then address them.

Anything else is conjecture and speculation.

In this case, a subset of the creatives here try and shame others over this and I find that to be disgusting.

Beyond that, the fact is, until the HC team says otherwise, it is a non-issue.

 

How in any of that, or anything else I had typed, did you manage to come up with me believing, well, anything?

 

If a deal is struck, there will be details. Duh.

Edited August 16, 2019 by jubakumbi

[MunkiLord]

"Psychotropic Refreshment" sounds like a great name for a Blaster. 

[Myrmidon]

3 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

"Psychotropic Refreshment" sounds like a great name for a Blaster. 

With the power color changes, you can easily get a kaleidoscope going.

[MunkiLord]

And the rainbow running streak!! Sounds like it's time to make a Water Blaster. Even if that name is taken by the time I get home, I'm sure I can come up with something close enough to make me happy.

[GM Capocollo]

While we don't currently have a policy about the re-creation of characters from other media, that is still liable to change if it becomes necessary (for example, if someone issues us a C&D).

[ShardWarrior]

49 minutes ago, PaxArcana said:

You could.  But I suspect you'd fail in that argument.

Perhaps.  Perhaps not.  All depends on what the deciding person(s) view as "reasonable". 

 

1 hour ago, justicebeliever said:

And we really should be, until such time as the rules change... 

Absolutely.  And I can comfortably say even if the rules were to change, I still would not report someone for it. 

[Darkeshade]

3 hours ago, Lunchmoney said:

Do you have evidence for that? Statements from persons affected? Copies is letters/emails from the devs to offending persons? Anything?

Yup, buddy was named Nyghtwing. MA/SR. Had it for 45 levels, got genericed with an email stating why (he forwarded me the email). He was able to rename and chose Nyghtbeast, still MA/SR but made more of a cat stylized nightwing character and all was right again with the world. Personal story of a character being genericed. 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Darkeshade

[Myrmidon]

An SG-mate went by the name Powermaann. The days that he spent as GenericheroXXXX were some of the most hilarious days in our SG.🤣

[MunkiLord]

Genericho would also be an awesome name! This thread is gold.

[MunkiLord]

Or Chris Genericho! A Street Justice/Invul? Scrapper with Confront and Provoke!

 

Or Rogue/Villain Genericho could be a Stalker so he could do sneak attacks and better control his crits!

Edited August 16, 2019 by MunkiLord

[Myrmidon]

50 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

Or Chris Genericho! A Street Justice/Invul? Scrapper with Confront and Provoke!

 

Or Rogue/Villain Genericho could be a Stalker so he could do sneak attacks and better control his crits!

It all depends on if you’re starting out as a Heel or Face.

[boggo2300]

On 8/16/2019 at 12:59 AM, Murcielago said:

Its never too early to become a dooms day prepper *puts on tinfoil hat*

that there sounds like a toon that needs to be made!

[Chuckers]

5 hours ago, jubakumbi said:

Where does this hate for people that like to spend thier time as a known character (cosplay) come from?

I don't have HATE for people who like to cosplay, whether it is in a game or real life. As an actor, I totally understand the thrill of playing a character. 

 

That being said, if their desire to cosplay has the potential of shutting down a game *I LOVE* than you can rest assured I will take action. Right now, copying trademark characters is not a thing to worry about with Homecoming. IF it does become something, then many of us will protect our game. There are enough options that a player can make an homage character and play them in such a way that those who are fans of that character will know they are playing that character. 

 

[Williwaw]

I'll just continue making characters reminiscent of "canon" characters rather than direct copies of them. :D

 

(That way, I don't have to justify having them summon Mu Mystics when I get high enough level)

Edited August 17, 2019 by Williwaw