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Jimmy

An Update from The Homecoming Team

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Gotta love all the people going, "Oh teh NOES, NCSoft knows about us! Hide the children!"

 

We've only been in the news for, like, four months. Do you think they'd have just left us alone like this if there hadn't been negotiations started?

 

I'm just going to cross my fingers and hope for the best. 

 

It's also kind of ironically amusing to note the confusion between Titan Network and City of Titans. This sort of thing is exactly the reason trademarks exist. Perhaps back in the day, Titan Network should have told the CoT people, "We appreciate the homage in your name, but really we'd rather you called it something else so people don't get confused." But too late for that now.

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I don't know anything about copyright law, but I'm not sure what the playerbase's bargaining chip is in this situation. While it's true that NCSoft would play hell trying to shut down every private server, they don't have to. They only have to cut off the head of the beast if they're really interested in throwing their weight around. Moreover, there's little indication that they care about, or even have to care about western markets. Finally, in this day and age, attention spans are short. There'd likely be some initial e-drama about NCSoft being the devil and a greedy, heartless corporation, but consumer's don't actually tend to vote wisely with their wallets, so I'm skeptical the negative press would affect their bottom line in any meaningful or lasting way.

I'd like to see Homecoming stick around. The market and Merit Reward system are miles better than what we had in live, and I've spent an unhealthy amount of time with the game since I found CoX again, but I have little faith in NCSoft's ability to act in a manner which fosters good will toward a base they were eager to step on 7 years ago, particularly when I don't see a reason for it. I truly hope to be proven wrong.

 

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You’re in negotiations with NCSoft? Oh god, this does not sound good.


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2 hours ago, justicebeliever said:

I'll believe it when I see it @TonyV...maybe it was premature to bring it up if you guys can't share any details, since all you are doing is fueling rampart speculation....

 

That said, I will take you at your word, and not post to the contrary any longer...

Agreed, I really don’t understand the point of this post since it provides no information.


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4 minutes ago, Vyx said:

Agreed, I really don’t understand the point of this post since it provides no information.

That talks are continuing and HAVE NOT stalled.  And that GM Jimmy is now involved, which I count as progress, myself. :)

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Just now, Tahquitz said:

That talks are continuing and HAVE NOT stalled.  And that GM Jimmy is now involved, which I count as progress, myself. 🙂

This is the first time they’ve ever officially even mentioned being in talks in the first place with NCSoft? So I have no idea what talks “stalling” would even mean for a rouge game server.

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@Vyx found on the Everlasting server!

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Vyx said:

This is the first time they’ve ever officially even mentioned being in talks in the first place with NCSoft? So I have no idea what talks “stalling” would even mean for a rouge game server.

They started months ago. And the server needs to lay off the blush. :P

Edited by Tahquitz
Humor.
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Interesting, perhaps necessary step to ensure we don't endure a second apocalypse.

 

My concern lies on if the negotiations fail again. You've effectively painted a target on yourselves, from what I understand.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, xailadrell said:

As a question, if negotiations go tits up and they decide to protect the IP, what happens?

Then it’s “Hail Hydra!” time. 

 

 

Although, seeing TonyV in here discussing a deal prospect likely means that we won’t have to worry about that type of thing very soon.

Edited by Myrmidon
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3 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Interesting, perhaps necessary step to ensure we don't endure a second apocalypse.

 

My concern lies on if the negotiations fail again. You've effectively painted a target on yourselves, from what I understand.

NCsoft isn't blind. There's going to be a target on us no matter what, unless this succeeds. (And to your inevitable counterpoint, I'd advise cautious optimism - the lay of the land has changed quite a bit from the downix attempt.)

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The only thing that worries me about "going straight" is the fear that in the name of legitimacy we'll end up with some kind of licensing agreement... that has an expiration date, whether an explicit "and then on this date it ends and the servers shut down" or a de facto "and then on this date we'll renegotiate the terms (at which time NCsoft can always choose not to renew the agreement and pull the plug anyway but let's not worry about that right now because yay cooperation)."

I want the game back permanently.

 

Forever.

 

Or at least as long as the Homecoming team and/or others care to continue operating servers. I don't want Paragon's fate to hang on whether some corporate big-shot in Korea is going to decide "twelve months is enough goodwill, let's go ahead and kill it again."

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Posted (edited)

The announcement says that the intention is that the entire community will be involved. Does that mean the Homecoming community, or does that mean everyone involved in the CoH revival? The people over at Ouroboros are working hard and are making great strides to clean up and streamline the i24 code, and SCOTS and the city representative site and people running smaller independent servers (some only small because Homecoming absorbed all the players before others had a chance) are all involved in the greater CoH community here.

 

My worry is that NCSoft will strike a deal with Homecoming, and everyone not directly involved with the Score group or the modified game will as a result fall into oblivion or even worse be marked as illegal and prosecuted. (i.e.: lending to a push of Homecoming becoming the only sanctioned shard)

While i25 has its merits as an alternative gameplay style I'd rather not see that becoming "what City of Heroes is for the future"; it's fun to play but for different reasons than the original game on live (long-term goal setting, for one).

 

Can y'all please clarify what was meant with "involving the entire community"?

 

 

Edited by Wolfbeast
Clarify the two distinct developments going on
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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Wolfbeast said:

The announcement says that the intention is that the entire community will be involved. Does that mean the Homecoming community, or does that mean everyone involved in the CoH revival? The people over at Ouroboros are working hard and are making great strides to clean up and streamline the i24 code, and SCOTS and the city representative site and people running smaller independent servers (some only small because Homecoming absorbed all the players before others had a chance) are all involved in the greater CoH community here.

 

My worry is that NCSoft will strike a deal with Homecoming, and everyone not directly involved with the Score group or the modified game will as a result fall into oblivion or even worse be marked as illegal and prosecuted. (i.e.: lending to a push of Homecoming becoming the only sanctioned shard)

While i25 has its merits as an alternative gameplay style I'd rather not see that becoming "what City of Heroes is for the future"; it's fun to play but for different reasons than the original game on live (long-term goal setting, for one).

 

Can y'all please clarify what was meant with "involving the entire community"? 

 

Yeah, this is my worry too, the community is bigger than homecoming.

 

I had thought Titan network put out a notice saying they not afflicted with homecoming, but now they have been in talks together?

 

Money wise, hopefully NC would be happy with a cut of the donation cake, that is like a liscence, they take in 10% of donation income.

 

Edited by HeroReborn
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51 minutes ago, Wolfbeast said:

My worry is that NCSoft will strike a deal with Homecoming, and everyone not directly involved with the Score group or the modified game will as a result fall into oblivion or even worse be marked as illegal and prosecuted. (i.e.: lending to a push of Homecoming becoming the only sanctioned shard)

While i25 has its merits as an alternative gameplay style I'd rather not see that becoming "what City of Heroes is for the future"; it's fun to play but for different reasons than the original game on live (long-term goal setting, for one).

After reading all of the pure garbage concerning the wider “community” for sometime, words cannot describe how funny I would find it if your idea there became the case.🤣

 

 

 

 

Honestly, player population is the indicator of the future more than anything and it looks like Homecoming development trumps your old, tired “Same ole, same ole”, however, you keep trying to ice skating uphill if that’s your thing.

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So, my own (mostly) baseless speculation...

 

Back at the initial shutdown, there were several parties interested in buying CoH outright from NC.  Assuming you're willing to take any statements from NC at face value, they were turned down not because of the value of the offer, but because NC didn't believe they were actually capable of delivering an acceptable experience to the players.  Homecoming, however, *has clearly demonstrated* that they can deliver, so my belief is that the negotiations are for the outright purchase of the game. If so, then the "community involvement" part of the effort will probably be a crowdfunding campaign to raise the purchase funds.

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2 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

Honestly, player population is the indicator of the future more than anything

You're a fan, I can tell.

 

Regardless, I think you're wrong. Player population of any MMO has always been about momentum (play where my buddies are playing). Homecoming grabbed the momentum (quite forcefully) in the early start, and only let up somewhat after everyone was already playing there. That doesn't mean that other efforts are to be scoffed at just because "the numbers are smaller". I'd say it's too early to tell either way.

 

3 minutes ago, doc_miller said:

 they were turned down [...] because NC didn't believe they were actually capable of delivering an acceptable experience to the players.

 

If so, then the "community involvement" part of the effort will probably be a crowdfunding campaign to raise the purchase funds.

I think NCSoft had a completely different motive: locking in the value of the game as part of their asset portfolio on paper by vaulting it.

If it's about crowdfunding to purchase the game outright from NCSoft, then who will own the rights in the end of the purchase with community funds? Homecoming LLC? What will they do with it in that case? That's a really poor scenario to think about.

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It is certainly interesting to here this.

 

My initial thoughts are " I/We do really enjoy the way i25 works" with all its addons, extras, markets etc. I wouldn't like to revert or see things like other servers are running like i24 and the slow pace again as for many of us "we have been there through the hard grind years ago". nice to be able to pick up and play at the pace we need to.

 

Keep up the great work and let's hope that things work out for the best 10/10 to you all.

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2 hours ago, Mjolnerd said:

The only thing that worries me about "going straight" is the fear that in the name of legitimacy we'll end up with some kind of licensing agreement... that has an expiration date, whether an explicit "and then on this date it ends and the servers shut down" or a de facto "and then on this date we'll renegotiate the terms (at which time NCsoft can always choose not to renew the agreement and pull the plug anyway but let's not worry about that right now because yay cooperation)."

I want the game back permanently.

 

Forever.

 

Or at least as long as the Homecoming team and/or others care to continue operating servers. I don't want Paragon's fate to hang on whether some corporate big-shot in Korea is going to decide "twelve months is enough goodwill, let's go ahead and kill it again."

I'm not sure why you think Homecoming is a forever thing either...we know nothing about their structure, except they are volunteer hobbyists...If 2 or 3 have a major row or falling out, it could still be all over in 6 months...Or because of the great work they are doing, key people get recruited to do something else that takes them away from this...Very few things are permanent, and this isn't something I'd tie my long term hopes to, not because I don't want it to succeed, but because things are always evolving.

 

To be clear, I want HC to succeed, and to continue to offer the game for free for the foreseeable future...

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"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." - Niels Bohr

 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Abraxus said:

First, folks have really got to stop speculating on this from the perspective of what they supposedly know.  The honest truth is, we know nothing about what is being discussed.  We got people ready to bail, and take their friends with them on the mere mention of this, without even knowing what it really means.  They are free to do so, but it would seem a little premature based on what we know so far.  There are those that have projected the scenarios they see possible, based on this announcement.  But, there are very likely possibilities that we can't imagine, because we don't have enough information to do so.  To assume that one knows for fact what will happen at this juncture, is presumptuous at best.

It's a fair statement Abraxus...but it begs the question, why post this thread at all (not your post, but the entire thread)...Rampant Speculation was the only possible outcome

 

13 hours ago, Abraxus said:

But, what I don't do is hold grudges regardless of what has passed since then.  Life is too short.  So, I'll wait, and watch for more news, assuming good intent, until or unless I hear otherwise. 

Hear hear for this...Agree 100%...To be clear, while my assumption was the game would move to some kind of pay model, it was not necessarily a negative thought...I won't begrudge HC at all for legally making a profit if they want to...(but I am glad they are not going in that direction)

Edited by justicebeliever
silly spelling mistakes

"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." - Niels Bohr

 

Global Handle: @JusticeBeliever ... Home servers on Live: Guardian ... Playing on: Everlasting

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While I remain cautiously optimistic about whatever negotiations are going on - because if they just wanted to step on us they could have done that from the beginning - I am concerned about the 'community' angle.  I like HC.  I've been comfortable playing here.  But if NcSoft decides that there will be only one legit server group, and it is run by Titan Network, then I doubt I can stick around.  Though I admit it has been a long time since I lurked around their forums, and some attitudes may have changed. 

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You Guys are amazin, I wipe a dear once every day for having my 2. home back. People sometimes tell me "Oh Yeah it can go down every minute, or the guys shut it down, when they have no more energy for this!", but I always stay positive, because YOU are positive and I think everyone of us in the Homecoming CoHmmunity can see how much you love the game like all of us. So I am hoping that everything turns well for you and us and to see where this could lead us, I am more then excited.

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Take all the time you need. I'd rather not rush things n fail.
This game has come a long way since the mass leak that lead to all this and would hope it can remain open as such.
 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Ironblade said:

What was Vader's quote?

"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

 

In related questions, are the beta server's changes indefinitely put on hold pending results of these talks? It's been deathly quiet there after all.

Edited by Novacat
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6 hours ago, TonyV said:

Option D) None of the above...

 

Seriously, all I ask is to give us a little more time and wait until we can give some more details before deciding that it's all doom and gloom. I promise that if I didn't think this was going to be a good thing, I wouldn't be involved in it like I am. I'm not oblivious to the fact that at this point, my own reputation is inextricably tied to the outcome of what we're working on, and I'm not eager to come out of this with everyone thinking, "Man, Tony's an idiot." (Although I also recognize that a 5%-10% "hate rate" ain't so bad, so an occasional "Tony's an idiot" post doesn't get to me...)

 

Anyway, my point is that what we're working on isn't a "best deal we can get" situation. It is, in my opinion, a genuinely good deal. I'm trying my best to not get everyone overly worked up because nothing is inked yet and until it is I'll have a healthy dose of low-level paranoia. But I also think that as things are going, when we can talk more, a lot of skeptical people will come away pleasantly surprised.

Nah why try to stay positive. These days it is all about thinking the worst, I trust you guys and I think of it like, 7 Years have passed, so there will be probably other guys sitting in the chairs of NCsoft then 7 Years back! 

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