An Update from The Homecoming Team

[justicebeliever]

3 minutes ago, MadCow99 said:

Dangit, I knew I forgot one important point:

 

With the code being out there, HC being blessed as the "Officially Licensed" City of Heroes servers would actually _reinforce_ NCSoft's trademark and copyrights, because it moves it from being abandoneware to being "actively developed".  Which means every time  they fire off a cease and desist to any of the other servers, they can include the paragraph "the City of Heroes Intellectual Property is actively and exclusively licensed to Homecoming, Inc, a Delaware Corporation, for their use".

 

Which means that allowing the HC team to use the City of Heroes code actually STRENGTHENS NCSoft's hand against everyone else. 

Just for clarity - NCSoft doesn't have to defend their copyright - that's automatic...But you are exactly correct when it comes to the trademark...

[Abraxus]

5 minutes ago, MadCow99 said:

Dangit, I knew I forgot one important point:

 

With the code being out there, HC being blessed as the "Officially Licensed" City of Heroes servers would actually _reinforce_ NCSoft's trademark and copyrights, because it moves it from being abandoneware to being "actively developed".  Which means every time  they fire off a cease and desist to any of the other servers, they can include the paragraph "the City of Heroes Intellectual Property is actively and exclusively licensed to Homecoming, Inc, a Delaware Corporation, for their use".

 

Which means that allowing the HC team to use the City of Heroes code actually STRENGTHENS NCSoft's hand against everyone else. 

I can't argue with that, because I don't know for sure that will be the result.  It certainly could be, but we won't know, until we know.  I suppose that, if this is successful, and is recognized as the only "officially" sanctioned server, that could very well mean issues for the others.  If it does, I hope we can find a way to prevent that from becoming a divisive problem, but we'll have to deal with it when we know for sure.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Abraxus

[Duuk]

11 minutes ago, Abraxus said:

I can't argue with that, because I don't know for sure that will be the result.  It certainly could be, but we won't know, until we know.  I suppose that, if this is successful, and is recognized as the only "officially" sanctioned server, that could very well mean issues for the others.  If it does, I hope we can find a way to prevent that from becoming a divisive problem, but we'll have to deal with it when we know for sure.

Any outcome that resulted in NCSoft officially deciding to allow 1 set of servers to exist, and thus allow the community to finally breathe easy and have a true home and not have to live underground in fear of sudden deletion in the middle of the night, was ALWAYS going to end with the other servers being forced to hide even harder or fold.

 

There was never a way around that.

[Abraxus]

10 minutes ago, MadCow99 said:

Any outcome that resulted in NCSoft officially deciding to allow 1 set of servers to exist, and thus allow the community to finally breathe easy and have a true home and not have to live underground in fear of sudden deletion in the middle of the night, was ALWAYS going to end with the other servers being forced to hide even harder or fold.

 

There was never a way around that.

I'd have to agree with that too!  As much as I'd hate to see anyone forced even further underground, I know that there are segments of the community that will never jump back onboard, regardless of the legitimized status, and they will head for whatever corner of the internet where they can exist, far from anyone's notice.  Those divisions arose shortly after the first public SCORE server was set-up, and subsequently shut-down after a false C&D spooked the hardware owner.  That is about when the Reddit, and 4Chan servers arose, and folks disaffected by their perception of the Homecoming effort migrated there.  Whether their reasons were legit, or not, I doubt most of them would reconsider in the face of whatever changes come about after the terms of the deal are made known.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Abraxus

[jubakumbi]

All I see is the same messages that we had years ago before shutdown, riling up the masses with hopes, dreams, and additional arguments over legal minutae they can only speculate on, in the end causing nothing but angst and upsetting everyone.

 

Why not just wait until something is actually a real deal?

Why bait people in this way?

 

Just the same old smoke blowing at this point form my PoV.

We have been 'in talks' for what, 7 years?

[Widower]

5 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

We have been 'in talks' for what, 7 years?

No, we haven't. Contrary to "common knowledge", Titan Network hasn't been involved in any of the prior buyout attempts beyond providing a space to talk about them on their forums. The Paragon attempt died pretty early on, Hail Mary never bore fruit, and the downix attempt just sort of disappeared years ago (and for all we know, may have been much less serious than it was made out to be). This is the real deal. I'm not saying it's absolutely guaranteed, but my understanding is that it's much closer than any previous attempt.

Edited August 8, 2019 by GM Widower

[Abraxus]

12 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

All I see is the same messages that we had years ago before shutdown, riling up the masses with hopes, dreams, and additional arguments over legal minutae they can only speculate on, in the end causing nothing but angst and upsetting everyone.

 

Why not just wait until something is actually a real deal?

Why bait people in this way?

 

Just the same old smoke blowing at this point form my PoV.

We have been 'in talks' for what, 7 years?

How about the earnest desire for them to be as transparent as possible, as they always said they would, without violating the terms of their negotiations?  They aren't trying to upset folks.  They are trying to amp them up over something they obviously consider to have a good chance for success base on what they KNOW, and we don't.  I know it's our nature to be cynical after all the previous attempts, but the game already being out in the wild really does change the balance this time around.  Whether it's enough to make a real difference, we don't know.  But, it's got a better shot than any previous attempts due to that fact.

 

So, perhaps a little "glass is half full" perspective.  There does appear to be some cause for it in this case.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Abraxus

[jubakumbi]

Just now, GM Widower said:

This is the real deal.

Been in business too long.

The deal is not real until after the ink is signed, the money in the bank, and the lawsiuts have all been settled after the first year... 🙂

 

The community has heard nothing but these kinds of promises for years.

I have heard the names Tony V and Titan Network in those too, even if my information is not perfect.

 

IMO, it would be much better to wait until it really is a done deal before engaging what is arguably one of the most volitile MMO fanbases on the planet.

 

You have all done a great job with this, if it comes to frution in a way that everyone benefits, that's awesome, but announcing it before it's baked is just not a move I would have made.

[Duuk]

Also, they seem to be communicating with us the "why hasn't there been a patch in 6 weeks?" 

 

Because they've been busy behind the scenes figuring out who is going to pay for the servers, and they apparently have reason to believe it might not be them, and that they might have an entirely different set of tools to use to patch the game with, build content with, etc.

 

The fact that they announced it means one of a few things, so let me summarize for you:

 

Fact: There are talks going on between HC and NCSoft.  We can assume that is a fact because it has been stated as fact.

Assumption:  The talks are going well and the HC team feels like a positive outcome is likely which will allow them to operate in a positive, constructive manner.

 

Now, that is an assumption on my part, and here's my logic.

 

If the talks are NOT going well, and NCSoft is jerking them around, you'd have to assume that the HC team are collossaly stupid to have gone public already.  However, the fact that they have done literally everything right so far leads me to believe that they are not, in fact, a fundamentally stupid group of people.

Given that I believe they are NOT a fundamentally stupid group of people, I will assume that they have some form of legal counsel involved, that the negotiations are at a stage where counsel has advised them they can leak that the negotiations are occurring, and they are likely to bear fruit.

 

Is it possible that my assumption is wrong and that the HC team is being fleeced? Yes, it is.  I know plenty of people you would assume are very intelligent who are, in fact, patent morons.  But in this case I'm erring on the side of "not fundamentally stupid."

[Widower]

3 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

I have heard the names Tony V and Titan Network in those too, even if my information is not perfect.

Then you have heard wrong.

 

I'm not saying any of this to disagree with the rest of your argument, mind you - again, I advocate cautious optimism - but I have been telling people that's wrong for nearly four months and I'd like to get the point across. xD

[Duuk]

1 minute ago, GM Widower said:

Then you have heard wrong.

 

I'm not saying any of this to disagree with the rest of your argument, mind you - again, I advocate cautious optimism - but I have been telling people that's wrong for nearly four months and I'd like to get the point across. xD

Trust me when I say that people will never, ever let go of their biases, not matter how many facts you put in front of them.  Especially since there were two very public things that used the word "Titan".  You're howling into the wind. 

[_NOPE_]

2 minutes ago, MadCow99 said:

I know plenty of people you would assume are very intelligent who are, in fact, patent morons.

[Widower]

Just now, MadCow99 said:

Trust me when I say that people will never, ever let go of their biases, not matter how many facts you put in front of them.  Especially since there were two very public things that used the word "Titan".  You're howling into the wind. 

Yeah, and it's unfortunate, but somebody's got to do it.

[jubakumbi]

1 minute ago, GM Widower said:

Then you have heard wrong.

 

I'm not saying any of this to disagree with the rest of your argument, mind you - again, I advocate cautious optimism - but I have been telling people that's wrong for nearly four months and I'd like to get the point across. xD

Fair enough.

There are simply So Many People with raw emotions around this game, to hint something like this, I see as a grave misstep among many other smart moves.

I have no issue with being wrong, but I see a lot of poeple already setting thier hair on fire, and anyone that really knows this community would know that would happen, regardless of caution being advertised.

 

Good luck.

[Obsidius]

Extremely

 

Cautiously

 

Optimistic.

 

Until then, business as usual: play an hour or so each day, take my time playing 🙂

Edited August 8, 2019 by Obsidius

[GM Capocollo]

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

 

Don't say anything, the community wonders why everything is so quiet, and if the deal goes through, people get angry that they weren't told about it and didn't have a chance to weigh in.

Say something vague and people invent all kinds of dismal scenarios about what they think is actually happening

Explain it in depth and get a thousand internet lawyers picking apart every single jot and tittle, and potentially sour the deal in the process, or subject some poor guy at NCsoft to a lot of hate mail.

[Tock]

3 minutes ago, Obsidius said:

Extremely

 

Cautiously

 

Optimistic.

 

Until then, business as usual: play an hour or so each day, take my time playing 🙂

 

So that's where you went. 😄

[Abraxus]

2 minutes ago, GM Capocollo said:

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

 

Don't say anything, the community wonders why everything is so quiet, and if the deal goes through, people get angry that they weren't told about it and didn't have a chance to weigh in.

Say something vague and people invent all kinds of dismal scenarios about what they think is actually happening

Explain it in depth and get a thousand internet lawyers picking apart every single jot and tittle, and potentially sour the deal in the process, or subject some poor guy at NCsoft to a lot of hate mail.

Yup!  I think said exactly the same thing a few pages ago.  But, whose counting? 😉

[Trickshooter]

Thanks for the update and the transparency.

 

Also, I'd like to say sorry to the volunteers running all this for us. We are an exhausting fanbase and I'm not sure I could stay as positive as you guys have.

[_NOPE_]

3 minutes ago, Trickshooter said:

Thanks for the update and the transparency.

 

Also, I'd like to say sorry to the volunteers running all this for us. We are an exhausting fanbase and I'm not sure I could stay as positive as you guys have.

But we're exhausting because we're passionate. WE want it to be a success. I think this is a strength of the community, and the fact that MOST of the time we can keep it fairly civil even with disparate opinions.

[justicebeliever]

7 minutes ago, GM Capocollo said:

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

 

Don't say anything, the community wonders why everything is so quiet, and if the deal goes through, people get angry that they weren't told about it and didn't have a chance to weigh in.

Say something vague and people invent all kinds of dismal scenarios about what they think is actually happening

Explain it in depth and get a thousand internet lawyers picking apart every single jot and tittle, and potentially sour the deal in the process, or subject some poor guy at NCsoft to a lot of hate mail.

I don't mean any disrespect at all, because I value the work you, in particular, and the rest of the Homecoming Team do, but that's what happens when you welcome 100K strangers into your house...

 

Maybe the quiet was deafening...but I wasn't really hearing alot of noise...I would have kept mum until there were some specifics to share, but it is what it is now...

 

I'm crossing my fingers, and I'm supportive of this effort, and cautiously optimistic that'll work out...

[jubakumbi]

17 minutes ago, GM Capocollo said:

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

 

Don't say anything, the community wonders why everything is so quiet, and if the deal goes through, people get angry that they weren't told about it and didn't have a chance to weigh in.

Say something vague and people invent all kinds of dismal scenarios about what they think is actually happening

Explain it in depth and get a thousand internet lawyers picking apart every single jot and tittle, and potentially sour the deal in the process, or subject some poor guy at NCsoft to a lot of hate mail.

I saw no reason to say a word about this particular topic.

Could have just said "Summer Time is here and we are working on stuff, will announce stuff Soon, hang in there."

 

I simply have more respect for the players this will upset than I do the ones clamoring for 'info' and 'progress' on a dead game.

The fans that think they should have been consulted? Screw 'em, someone will always hate change. If they wanted to be involved that bad, they could put up and call NCSoft and make a deal or contacted you with plans. The armchair laywers can all go jump from my PoV, idle speculation does nothing good IME.

 

There are already posters talking trash about NCSoft over this, so even hinting also opens the can of worms that includes the Internet Hate to flow toward the company.

 

So yeah, the Silence was golden ... to me.

[JCMcBoo]

16 hours ago, Moosejaw said:

 

What if I was full of crap?

 

What color are your eyes?

[Trickshooter]

15 minutes ago, The Philotic Knight said:

But we're exhausting because we're passionate. WE want it to be a success. I think this is a strength of the community, and the fact that MOST of the time we can keep it fairly civil even with disparate opinions.

For sure. I just sympathize with being in a position where every decision will upset someone. It's easy to let it get you down, but they're doing a good job and I wanted them to know.

[aniquiel]

17 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

I see nothing positive that can come from this.  

 

Option A) NCsoft issues a license to the HC team, for a fee.  Donations need to go up to compensate.  Other servers out there probably won't be able to afford a license and there's no way NCsoft will be willing to deal with places like /coxg/.  Eventually donations will peter out and the license will no longer be affordable.

 

Option B) NCsoft brings back a legit I24 server.  Goodbye all of our progress here.  Goodbye all of the I25 updates.  Goodbye streamlined progression.  Probably welcome back the MTXs.  

 

Option C) Negotiations go belly up and the whole shebang gets shutdown.  

 

I feel like the best scenario was to just tell them to pound sand.  It would be more hassle and expense for them to play whack-a-mole on servers and they'd quit really quickly.  

~or~  Chicken Little could realize it was just an acorn that hit him on the head and the sky is, in fact, not falling.