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Got complaints about being a mastermind in a group


plainguy

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5 hours ago, Pale_Enchantress said:

Many people have already pointed it out but caves every one blocks everyone and if your pets are blocking someone it is because someone is blocking them. The best thing you can do is just let some people move ahead of you if you know they run through and try to make sure your pets follow you. I have gotten minor complaints but they were mostly joking I've never had someone complain about me being a master mind though I'm sure those people exist. They seem to be quite a minority though so I wouldn't let them get to you

Yea mind you I don't have the Exact verbiage the person said.

 

But it was around the lines of 2 masterminds on a team already but 2 masterminds in a cave, I had enough. I'm out and they bailed. 

Then the tank commented, Yea I feel the same. 

 

Again not the end of the world and the newer content for the incarnate missions sort of fixed the cave and sewer problems. At least they were smart there.

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Hey, Plain. 🙂

The toon in the profile pic was the other MM on your team...Thugs/Kin MM named The SYN'stagrammer. lol 

I remember it. We were outside of the cave entrance right across from the Brickstown train station. I found it a little annoying as well, but also got the feeling that it was directed more at the cave map than at just the MM pets. 

We're just going to run into this type of thing sometimes and it's not worth taking personally. I've had people complain about my Nature'fender putting too much of a load on their video cards. lol Of they want to leave, let them leave or they can adapt. You were a good addition to the team, big, door-blocking, always-screaming pets or no. 😄 

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15 hours ago, synfoola said:

Hey, Plain. 🙂

The toon in the profile pic was the other MM on your team...Thugs/Kin MM named The SYN'stagrammer. lol 

I remember it. We were outside of the cave entrance right across from the Brickstown train station. I found it a little annoying as well, but also got the feeling that it was directed more at the cave map than at just the MM pets. 

We're just going to run into this type of thing sometimes and it's not worth taking personally. I've had people complain about my Nature'fender putting too much of a load on their video cards. lol Of they want to leave, let them leave or they can adapt. You were a good addition to the team, big, door-blocking, always-screaming pets or no. 😄 

Yes it was...

 

That was my petless mastermind leveling..  You can't do petless leveling.. The Endurance drain is impossible. 

Since then hes 50 and has some incarnate unlocked and spec'ed out.

9 hours ago, ratinox said:

Just my two cents worth: when I'm on confined maps I leave my tier 1 minions at home. The tier 2 and 3 minions are enough to get things done.

Yea  I agree.

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I run a bots/ff MM and even *I* get annoyed with my own pets 😊 .. but I know how to move them and micromanage them so there's minimal annoyance. Some people are just jerks. I can have a blast, pun intended, playing my MM alone. I don't need a team with him.

 

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1 hour ago, Chuckers said:

I run a bots/ff MM and even *I* get annoyed with my own pets 😊 .. but I know how to move them and micromanage them so there's minimal annoyance. Some people are just jerks. I can have a blast, pun intended, playing my MM alone. I don't need a team with him.

 

The great take away as you mentioned and so do others.

 

Masterminds are required  to be cognizant of their pets at all times.  

 

I would like to say because of the pets we can do great things.  But the reality is we can't and are just like any other AT soloing AVs.  Some builds can and some builds can't.

 

But unlike other Archtypes our main job is controlling pets almost all the time. Again not a complaint, just stating a fact.

Thus it leaves us less time to attack ourselves and even further we have chance to slot attacks because the build requires you to have thing to protect your pets.

 

EG Traps is Traps is Traps.

 

Robot Traps,  AR Traps defender,  AR Traps Corruptor.  

I can see the argument of we want Traps set for the debuff. But we don't want to deal with the 5 to 6 pets that come with the mastermind.

 

I wish there was an ability within the AI of the pets that would keep them on a leash and stop the pets from running off.  

I wish there was an ability to tell the pets Stand here DON'T MOVE.. Just attack this target.. BUT DON'T MOVE no matter what, unless told to do so.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, plainguy said:

The great take away as you mentioned and so do others.

 

Masterminds are required  to be cognizant of their pets at all times.  

 

II wish there was an ability within the AI of the pets that would keep them on a leash and stop the pets from running off.  

I wish there was an ability to tell the pets Stand here DON'T MOVE.. Just attack this target.. BUT DON'T MOVE no matter what, unless told to do so.

 

 

 

Pet melee attacks are the bane of any master mind, especially when in a group. Even more so when, I feel, my bots ranged attacks do better damage. I think they should rely on melee when the enemy comes into melee range.. not go up to run, punch, and fire more ranged. 

 

There is a "go here" command and they will follow it.. and then promptly ignore it or stand there and do nothing. A "go and fight from this spot" command would be so helpful. Body Guard mode should actually be stay in "aura range" of your master and protect him.

 

Edited by Chuckers
clarity
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I got complaints once, waaaaaay back on Live, about my Mastermind.  Bots/FF.  One of the early "all pets, nothing else" approaches to MMing (yes, this was in Issue 6 or 7, VERY early days for villain ATs).  The other players, you see, never saw MY little avatar "do" anything except stand there.

 

Nevermind the pets.

 

Nevermind the great big giant soap-bubble of Dispersion Field.

 

Nevermind the little soap-bubbles I kept on everyone.

 

Nevermind the six big stompy robots burning enemies down with laser blasts galore.

 

Nope ... my little MM "just stood there and watched", so I was "leeching".

 

...

 

...

 

I told them all, "tell you what.  This next room is big.  I'm going to turn off all my toggles, not re-bubble you guys, and all my robots will stand with me, over here, and ACTUALLY do nothing while you fight ONE of the three groups in this room without me.  Then, you will all stand back, do nothing, while I and my robots fight the other TWO groups, just us.  And we'll see who finishes faster, and in better health."

 

... spoiler alert: I did. 😁  All three leadership toggles, fully upgraded and bubbled robots, dispersion bubble ... it was like pushing baby ducklings into an alligator pond.  And I was done in about 90% of the time it took them for half as many enemies.

At which point, I said "So ... remind me, why I'm sharing all this XP with you, again?  'cause it seems you need my robots, more than I need you."

And finally, specifying that I was speaking totally OOC, I explained that I was giving them all much better defenses (Maneuvers, Dispersion, individual bubbles, and my Protectors' bubbles), plus better chances to hit (Tactics) and more damage (Assault), that my robots were doing lots of AoE damage, and that I was spending MY time making sure I was close enough to everyone for those toggles to work, while watching for adds by retaining situational awareness.

...

 

No-one complained again that night.  🙂

 

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Global Handle: @PaxArcana ... Home servers on Live: Freedom Virtue ... Home Server on HC: Torchbearer


Archetype: Casual Gamer ... Powersets:  Forum Melee / Neckbeard ... Kryptonite:  Altoholism

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I use this macro...

 

/macro AssHattery “targetcustnext doorway$$petcom_all goto$$petsay_all LOLOLOLOLOL$$petsay_all Trollin, Trollin, Trollin down the river”

 

PS.  It’s not a real macro.  

PPS.   M. O. O. N.  That spells blockin the doorways

PPPS.  Baby, Can you dig your man?

 

 

 

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I routinely play MMs, but yes I've done FF missions in caves with Demon Summoner as a controller. We'd split the group because we had a full team and when I was not being overwhelmed by the graphics of demons covered in a number of auras I was happy, when I wound up in the other squad trying to find my way through to the front through a cave plugged with demons, I was getting a bit claustrophobic and cranky. I wish it was possible to shrink the bigger troops (would fit my clockwork themed Bot MM nicely) to give others better perception lines in tight spaces.

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On 8/15/2019 at 10:39 PM, ratinox said:

Just my two cents worth: when I'm on confined maps I leave my tier 1 minions at home. The tier 2 and 3 minions are enough to get things done.

Yah, cept I play thugs, and when you leave your pyro at home you are blowing over half your DPS.

Then again, I am guessing thugs don't block as much as bots or demons. Except when I throw in a gang war.

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On 8/18/2019 at 9:17 PM, PaxArcana said:

No-one complained again that night.  🙂

Yup, and then a Bug, defriender, or corpsetupper came along and did everything you just did, without all of the target and movement-blocking pets, noiseness, and uncontrolled KB

Masterminds can be amazing, yes... but considering how many really BAD masterminds there are out there (which seems to be the default state...I had a level 46 MM ask me what the hell I meant bodyguard mode?)  it comes down to risk vs reward... much like stormies. even if only half of all masterminds/stormies were bad, do you really want to take a 50/50 chance on your team getting wrecked by one player when you could invite another AT that, while perhaps less powerful, is guaranteed to be, if not a net asset, at least Neutral?

I have made peace with the fact that when I play my Thugs/Plants mastermind, I am going to have to convince the team leader that I, at least, know what I am doing. I have to sell myself, and usually walk away with several people friending me after each PUG... I cannot just be 'competent' like the blaster or brute, I need to be flipping brilliant, and prove it every single time I team.

And an MM can ABSOLUTELY be brilliant. But I have been convinced since CoV came out that Masterminds should have been a Veteran Archetype. Other AT's can make bad pulls, but an inexperienced mastermind can WRECK a team.

We really, really need bounding-box free (To other players) pets. and more 'default' buttons with things like bodyguard and guard location preset. and maybe 'guard this target'.

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8 hours ago, Frostweaver said:

even if only half of all masterminds/stormies were bad, do you really want to take a 50/50 chance on your team getting wrecked by one player when you could invite another AT that, while perhaps less powerful, is guaranteed to be, if not a net asset, at least Neutral?

There are bad players in EVERY archetype.

 

ANY player you invite, could be the guy who dooms the team to repeated faceplanting.

 

...

 

By the by?  I wasn't "brilliant" as a Mastermind - not that night, nor in general.  I just wasn't bad at it.

Edited by PaxArcana
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Global Handle: @PaxArcana ... Home servers on Live: Freedom Virtue ... Home Server on HC: Torchbearer


Archetype: Casual Gamer ... Powersets:  Forum Melee / Neckbeard ... Kryptonite:  Altoholism

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And this happens more often with Masterminds than nearly any other AT, because there is so much more to learn to be 'competent'. Other AT's have troubling powersets that require much learning... force fields, energy blast, storm, but only masterminds have such a steep learning curve for the entire AT, except, perhaps, Kheldians... and again, they only tend to get themselves killed.

Most scrappers and brutes only get themselves killed.

Edited by Frostweaver
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I genuinely don't see badly played masterminds wrecking teams very much.

 

In my experience, both playing MMs and watching others do so, the #1 unproductive thing is having pets die a lot and need a lot of resummoning, which takes the MM out of productive action for a while. Beyond that, really, no, just the usual range of things that can hit any archetype, plus a bit of pets being in the way at inconvenient moments. 

 

I have, by the way, become convinced that player perception of pets crowding doorways is an instance of a very common category of perception error. Studies show that in classrooms and business situations, when women talk about 30% of the time during discussions, they're perceived - by many women as well as by most men - as talking an outright majority of the time. Most observers will describe a group that's got 17% female members as being balanced 50/50. That kind of thing.

 

I've watched groups of all sorts of archetype mix get into logjams at small doorways, in narrow caves, and the like, with and without any pets at all (including controller and other non-MM pets). The moment people see MM pets, they blame them for any congestion. But the fact of my experience is that they add little if anything at all to the congestion. It's always there. It's just that people only have a target for fussing at/about that isn't a character when pets are around.

 

Now, the other fact is that a problem arising from skewed perception is still something that needs dealing with. Simply being willing to either be clearly ahead of or behind the rest of the group when in narrow spaces helps lot with the clogging perception, and so on.

 

@SmalltalkJava, I can indeed dig my man, but only when playing blue-side, since he's a righteous man.

 

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12 hours ago, Frostweaver said:

And this happens more often with Masterminds than nearly any other AT, because there is so much more to learn to be 'competent'. Other AT's have troubling powersets that require much learning... force fields, energy blast, storm, but only masterminds have such a steep learning curve for the entire AT, except, perhaps, Kheldians... and again, they only tend to get themselves killed.

Most scrappers and brutes only get themselves killed.

Strongly disagree. I don't really see terrible Masterminds on teams much at all. If I was going to pick the AT that carries the most risk of a bad player dooming the team, it'd be Peacebringer. SO MANY AWFUL PB PLAYERS.

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On 8/31/2019 at 9:25 AM, Frostweaver said:

And this happens more often with Masterminds than nearly any other AT, because there is so much more to learn to be 'competent'.

Really, no, there isn't.

You know what pet controls I most often use?

The three predefined buttons (though I change "Follow" to put the pets in Defensive rather than Aggressive) ... and a keybind, Control+Q, that dismisses all of them.

 

Second place, I set up keybinds to summon and upgrade my pets.  1, 2, and 3 summon the three tiers; 4 targets the nearest pet; 5 and 6 are for upgrade powers.

 

Third place, I use Control+Click to send a Goto command to my pets, without changing their Stance.

...

That's it.  Other than the summoning (which is mostly to keep my trays from being filled with those powers), I use two nonstandard controls, a GOTO and a GET LOST.

 

Other than that, it's only a matter of paying attention and thinking about what the pets are doing ... neither of which are terribly complex.

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Global Handle: @PaxArcana ... Home servers on Live: Freedom Virtue ... Home Server on HC: Torchbearer


Archetype: Casual Gamer ... Powersets:  Forum Melee / Neckbeard ... Kryptonite:  Altoholism

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I can understand about being SITUATIONALLY peeved with MM pets.
Pets can sometimes be navigational obstruction in tight-quarters maps, and getting pinned in place (ESPECIALLY in combat) can be INFURIATING.

But it's part of the game.  Like it or lump it.
Just randomly grumble-whinging about MMs?
I'll leave that as my commentary.  As expressing myself unequivocally would probably get me kicked off the forums...

If you want to be godlike, pick anything.

If you want to be GOD, pick a TANK!

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I’ve been on teams where the MM likes leaving their pets in doorways and chokepoints simply because that’s where the AI says is fine for them to sit back and firing squad. When I’m playing a character who can’t teleport through the bodies of the MM’s pets in order to actually play the game, I just leave the team. That MM can do their thing. I’ll do mine. I find it aggravating, but it’s just part of how the game works.

 

I wouldn’t put the player on blast. I’m not their dad, and this isn’t elementary school.

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1 hour ago, Mercurias said:

I just leave the team.

... do you at least try, once per team, to say "hey, let me through the door!" ...?

Global Handle: @PaxArcana ... Home servers on Live: Freedom Virtue ... Home Server on HC: Torchbearer


Archetype: Casual Gamer ... Powersets:  Forum Melee / Neckbeard ... Kryptonite:  Altoholism

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There's one door in particular on office maps which appears in corridors on the corners, and there's like a small conference room on the other side. The game often likes to spawn mobs in there. That's the door I always think of when this conversation comes up.

It isn't always pets (though they love it there). It only takes one person to stand in that doorway to block everyone. I've been frustrated as a tank and being unable to get into the group to be effective.

But, eh, it happens. I usually just wait it out, the best case is the mobs die a bit slower since we can't get all our damage in there. Worse case, the person blocking the door gets killed and I can get into the room and on with my job.

 

 

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