Proc Monsters - Controller Edition

[WitchofDread]

Well that's disappointing then. It's a power I have always wanted to run in tandem with WoC. But definitely not worth it then! Shame.

[Sir Myshkin]

Patch Update for Electrical Affinity is in the core Defender thread as of... five minutes ago. I'll link here for folks referencing from this thread. Nothing specific in the information that would change anything from a Controller perspective, it's a pretty proc-light set (link goes straight to the post):

 

 

Side note: Personally I think Fire/Electric is looking to be one of the more interesting iterations since Fire Imps can get buffed and healed in triplicate pretty quickly, and those buffs can come back to the player, and the set is a little self-fixing from an endurance stand point if enough of the +End procs get dropped around. Might finally be able to run Hot Feet! There's also the obvious Elec/Elec combination for a sap-minded build that also has the same effect on Gremlins from a buff standpoint. Definitely not a Fire/Kin, but a bit more forgiving when it comes to Imp positioning and healing.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Sir Myshkin

[Camel]

4 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Patch Update for Electrical Affinity is in the core Defender thread as of... five minutes ago. I'll link here for folks referencing from this thread. Nothing specific in the information that would change anything from a Controller perspective, it's a pretty proc-light set (link goes straight to the post):

 

 

Side note: Personally I think Fire/Electric is looking to be one of the more interesting iterations since Fire Imps can get buffed and healed in triplicate pretty quickly, and those buffs can come back to the player, and the set is a little self-fixing from an endurance stand point if enough of the +End procs get dropped around. Might finally be able to run Hot Feet! There's also the obvious Elec/Elec combination for a sap-minded build that also has the same effect on Gremlins from a buff standpoint. Definitely not a Fire/Kin, but a bit more forgiving when it comes to Imp positioning and healing.

I have a level 36 Elec/Elec Controller and it’s pretty good. Gremlins are very tanky with all the circuit buffs. Still play testing before I put a final build together, but I think it will end up being a monster on teams. I’m having a hard time picking which powers I don’t want, so many seem like a good choice! Has anyone gotten one to 50 with a full IO/Incarnate build? 

[Redlynne]

Has anyone tried putting the Regenerative Tissue proc into Temporal Mending for Time Manipulation?

I'm curious to know if the +25% Regeneration applies only to the caster or gets to distributed to everyone within the PBAoE when cast (so +25% Regeneration for everyone, not just the caster).

 

This could have implications for my Time Manipulation builds ...

[Pzn]

On 4/2/2020 at 5:34 PM, Redlynne said:

I need something tested in game.

I need to know if slotting an Entomb (not Superior) will "always" have a 90% chance to proc an Absorb shield onto the caster when casting Distortion Field from Time Manipulation.

Note that Distortion Field does not require a $Target in order to cast the power because it is a Target Location type power, so the only delay you'll have in testing it is recharge.

I calculate that even with 100% recharge slotted into the power, Entomb ought to have a 90% proc rate upon casting Distortion Field.

Someone please test for me so as to prove me right or wrong (and if I'm wrong, what is the proc chance revealed by testing?).

I haven't tested the absorb proc specifically but the proc chance for damage procs in distortion field is incredibly low.

[Redlynne]

1 hour ago, josh1622 said:

I haven't tested the absorb proc specifically but the proc chance for damage procs in distortion field is incredibly low.

That's because in order for damage procs in Distortion Field to have an effect (deal damage) they're being powered by a toggle run by the summoned pseudo-pet, which has a 20ft radius.

Most damage procs are 3.5 PPM or higher (going all the way up to 5.0 PPM for Superior Will of the Controller).

• 3.5 x 10 / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 20 * (11 * 360 + 540) / 30,000))) = 17.95% chance per $Target every ~10 sec
• 4.0 x 10 / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 20 * (11 * 360 + 540) / 30,000))) = 20.51% chance per $Target every ~10 sec
• 4.5 x 10 / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 20 * (11 * 360 + 540) / 30,000))) = 23.08% chance per $Target every ~10 sec
• 5.0 x 10 / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 20 * (11 * 360 + 540) / 30,000))) = 25.64% chance per $Target every ~10 sec

Which doesn't sound like a whole lot of damage production until you realize that's against multiple $Targets and having multiple damage procs in Distortion Field (which does not need nor allow the slotting of Accuracy enhancements, meaning the power is autohit).  Here's what happens when you have multiples (1-4):

• 1 - (1 - 0.1795)¹ = 17.95% for at least 1 damage proc
• 1 - (1 - 0.1795)² = 32.68% for at least 1 damage proc
• 1 - (1 - 0.1795)³ = 44.76% for at least 1 damage proc
• 1 - (1 - 0.1795)⁴ = 54.68% for at least 1 damage proc

Will of the Controller damage proc has a 4.0 or 5.0 PPM (Superior is higher), and the Unbreakable damage proc has a 4.5 PPM.  Put all of those in and you get:

• Non-Superior: 1 - ((1 - 0.1795)⁴ * (1 - 0.2051) * (1 - 0.2308) = 72.29% for at least 1 damage proc
• Superior: 1 - ((1 - 0.1795)⁴ * (1 - 0.2564) * (1 - 0.2308) = 74.08% for at least 1 damage proc

However, that's just the chances for a SINGLE damage proc per $Target with 6 damage procs in Distortion Field ... it doesn't include the chances for multiple damage procs per $Target (which is a sub-set of the at least 1 damage proc condition).

 

Now, I don't know about anyone else, but having ~72% to ~74% chance (roll 2-4 on 1d4) to proc 71.75-107.1 damage every 10s is closing in on the throughput of a stock and standard damage aura power, and can deliver those damage procs to an AoE (rather than to a single target) which also debuffs movement speeds so $Targets cannot escape.  So the combination turns Distortion Field into more of a "rain" styled damage production out of power that does not deal damage by default.

 

Now, that's of course assuming that Distortion Field isn't being subjected to the "rain" type powers reduction to damage procs.

 

 

 

On another note:

On 4/5/2020 at 11:03 AM, Redlynne said:

Has anyone tried putting the Regenerative Tissue proc into Temporal Mending for Time Manipulation?

I'm curious to know if the +25% Regeneration applies only to the caster or gets to distributed to everyone within the PBAoE when cast (so +25% Regeneration for everyone, not just the caster).

 

This could have implications for my Time Manipulation builds ...

I'm kind of surprised that no one has an answer to this question yet.

[Pzn]

4 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

That's because in order for damage procs in Distortion Field to have an effect (deal damage) they're being powered by a toggle run by the summoned pseudo-pet, which has a 20ft radius.

Most damage procs are 3.5 PPM or higher (going all the way up to 5.0 PPM for Superior Will of the Controller).

• 3.5 x 10 / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 20 * (11 * 360 + 540) / 30,000))) = 17.95% chance per $Target every ~10 sec
• 4.0 x 10 / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 20 * (11 * 360 + 540) / 30,000))) = 20.51% chance per $Target every ~10 sec
• 4.5 x 10 / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 20 * (11 * 360 + 540) / 30,000))) = 23.08% chance per $Target every ~10 sec
• 5.0 x 10 / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 20 * (11 * 360 + 540) / 30,000))) = 25.64% chance per $Target every ~10 sec

Which doesn't sound like a whole lot of damage production until you realize that's against multiple $Targets and having multiple damage procs in Distortion Field (which does not need nor allow the slotting of Accuracy enhancements, meaning the power is autohit).  Here's what happens when you have multiples (1-4):

• 1 - (1 - 0.1795)¹ = 17.95% for at least 1 damage proc
• 1 - (1 - 0.1795)² = 32.68% for at least 1 damage proc
• 1 - (1 - 0.1795)³ = 44.76% for at least 1 damage proc
• 1 - (1 - 0.1795)⁴ = 54.68% for at least 1 damage proc

Will of the Controller damage proc has a 4.0 or 5.0 PPM (Superior is higher), and the Unbreakable damage proc has a 4.5 PPM.  Put all of those in and you get:

• Non-Superior: 1 - ((1 - 0.1795)⁴ * (1 - 0.2051) * (1 - 0.2308) = 72.29% for at least 1 damage proc
• Superior: 1 - ((1 - 0.1795)⁴ * (1 - 0.2564) * (1 - 0.2308) = 74.08% for at least 1 damage proc

However, that's just the chances for a SINGLE damage proc per $Target with 6 damage procs in Distortion Field ... it doesn't include the chances for multiple damage procs per $Target (which is a sub-set of the at least 1 damage proc condition).

 

Now, I don't know about anyone else, but having ~72% to ~74% chance (roll 2-4 on 1d4) to proc 71.75-107.1 damage every 10s is closing in on the throughput of a stock and standard damage aura power, and can deliver those damage procs to an AoE (rather than to a single target) which also debuffs movement speeds so $Targets cannot escape.  So the combination turns Distortion Field into more of a "rain" styled damage production out of power that does not deal damage by default.

 

Now, that's of course assuming that Distortion Field isn't being subjected to the "rain" type powers reduction to damage procs.

 

 

 

On another note:

I'm kind of surprised that no one has an answer to this question yet.

I'm not sure why but the chance to proc in distortion field is way lower than the math indicates.  I tried slotting it with procs and tested 500 proc chances.  A 3.5 PPM IO was only going off 6% of the time.

[Redlynne]

2 minutes ago, josh1622 said:

I'm not sure why but the chance to proc in distortion field is way lower than the math indicates.  I tried slotting it with procs and tested 500 proc chances.  A 3.5 PPM IO was only going off 6% of the time.

If that's true, then it would seem that Distortion Field is being classed as a "rain" type power despite doing no damage (natively).

 

@Bopper can you get any field testing for this?

[Pzn]

I would really appreciate someone doing more thorough testing on it.  I loved using distortion field as a proc power before the PPM changes but it just doesn't seem to function as well now.  It still seems good in a sustained fight against AVs since you get the full duration and way more proc opportunities.  But the proc chance seems too low to deal much damage against normal mobs.

 

[Bopper]

1 hour ago, Redlynne said:

If that's true, then it would seem that Distortion Field is being classed as a "rain" type power despite doing no damage (natively).

 

@Bopper can you get any field testing for this?

 

1 hour ago, josh1622 said:

I would really appreciate someone doing more thorough testing on it.  I loved using distortion field as a proc power before the PPM changes but it just doesn't seem to function as well now.  It still seems good in a sustained fight against AVs since you get the full duration and way more proc opportunities.  But the proc chance seems too low to deal much damage against normal mobs.

 

Luckily, I already did extensive testing with Distortion Field last year. Check out all of page 2's comments in my guide (back before it was a guide and just a test results thread)

 

2 hours ago, Redlynne said:

Most damage procs are 3.5 PPM or higher (going all the way up to 5.0 PPM for Superior Will of the Controller).

• 3.5 x 10 / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 20 * (11 * 360 + 540) / 30,000))) = 17.95% chance per $Target every ~10 sec
• 4.0 x 10 / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 20 * (11 * 360 + 540) / 30,000))) = 20.51% chance per $Target every ~10 sec
• 4.5 x 10 / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 20 * (11 * 360 + 540) / 30,000))) = 23.08% chance per $Target every ~10 sec
• 5.0 x 10 / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 20 * (11 * 360 + 540) / 30,000))) = 25.64% chance per $Target every ~10 sec

Which doesn't sound like a whole lot of damage production until you realize that's against multiple $Targets and having multiple damage procs in Distortion Field

These numbers look correct. A 3.5 PPM proc will have a 17.95% chance to fire on each target every 10 seconds. Since DF lasts 45 seconds, it will have 5 proc checks (0s, 10s, 20s, 30s, 40s).

 

I'm curious what you're seeing @josh1622. Do you have numbers?

[Redlynne]

Ah yes, now I remember that part of the discussion starting August 1, 2019 and that's part of the reason why I was looking to use 5-6 damage procs in Distortion Field for my Time Manipulation builds (Controllers can add Will of the Controller damage proc while Masterminds have no corresponding counterpart that can be slotted in from ATO sets).

 

However, it's possible that some update to Homecoming since then changed the underlying dynamics, so a retest to validate/verify might be in order.  Doesn't need to be as rigorous as your first series, so long as the proc chances are still weighing in "near" where the computed formula imputes they ought to be.

[Bopper]

15 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

Ah yes, now I remember that part of the discussion starting August 1, 2019 and that's part of the reason why I was looking to use 5-6 damage procs in Distortion Field for my Time Manipulation builds (Controllers can add Will of the Controller damage proc while Masterminds have no corresponding counterpart that can be slotted in from ATO sets).

 

However, it's possible that some update to Homecoming since then changed the underlying dynamics, so a retest to validate/verify might be in order.  Doesn't need to be as rigorous as your first series, so long as the proc chances are still weighing in "near" where the computed formula imputes they ought to be.

It could be worth looking at for potential changes, which is why I ask for details on what specifically is being seen. Before I retest something, I need to know if it's really an oddity or just small sample size..

 

The test is actually easier to do now thanks to the standardized combat log parser, so really anyone can do these tests. However the challenge of the test is knowing how many enemies are within the patch the whole time, so really it's just time consuming. Also, the test needs to not stack DFs, so ultimately any testing requires manually monitoring the screen the entire time. Its not something I can set on auto and look at data later.

 

If anyone wants to do the test and have me look at the results, I'll be happy to do so. Just make sure only 1 enemy is in the patch the entire time, don't stack patches, and tell me what procs are slotted. Then upload your chat log and I'll parse it. 

Edited April 7, 2020 by Bopper

[Pzn]

2 hours ago, Bopper said:

I'm curious what you're seeing @josh1622. Do you have numbers?

I tested it last year a couple months after the server went up.  I slotted a single 3.5 damage proc (impeded swiftness) and used distortion field 100 times on a single mob that was immobilized.  Out of 500 proc opportunities I only recorded 31 procs.  I'll re-do my tests soon and see if the results match your numbers this time.

Edited April 7, 2020 by josh1622

[Redlynne]

22 minutes ago, josh1622 said:

I tested it last year a couple months after the server went up.

Outdated test results probably need to be re-verified.  If nothing else, something might have changed in the meantime between now and then.

[Sir Myshkin]

3 hours ago, josh1622 said:

I tested it last year a couple months after the server went up.  I slotted a single 3.5 damage proc (impeded swiftness) and used distortion field 100 times on a single mob that was immobilized.  Out of 500 proc opportunities I only recorded 31 procs.  I'll re-do my tests soon and see if the results match your numbers this time.

A lot of stuff under the hood got stealth adjusted, whether knowingly or not, that changed the dynamic of quite a few powers, Rains being one of them, between July and October last year (2019), I don't recall exactly when, just that there were quite a few tests that were done and certain results came out differently in between there. A lot of what Bopper tested was around that time as well, which sounds like probably happened after what you tested. It'd probably be worth going back and re-checking your experience. I don't personally have a */Time Character without having to roll up a test character just to look at that one thing. Already have some stuff slated to check on Heal procs in Electrical Affinity that I've been trying to get around to for the last four nights.

[EmperorSteele]

I don't record numbers, but it's been my experience that damage and hold procs don't work well in Distortion Field (which was a proc BEAST on Live). Overpowering Presence: Energy Font will spawn EVERY time I use the power, but that's about it, sadly.

[Redlynne]

1 hour ago, EmperorSteele said:

Overpowering Presence: Energy Font will spawn EVERY time I use the power

Only upon casting or do you get extra Fonts over time from it?

[EmperorSteele]

Just now, Redlynne said:

Only upon casting or do you get extra Fonts over time from it?

Just on casting.

[Redlynne]

23 minutes ago, EmperorSteele said:

Just on casting.

That then basically confirms my surmise about how the Energy Font proc is coded.  It can only be procced when the Controller casts, not when Pets and/or Pseudopets cast powers independently of the Controller.  There must be some kind of inherent limitation in the code to prevent pets from summoning pets via procs, which then means that only the initial casting is "valid" for checking the proc chances for Energy Font.

[Coyote]

53 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

That then basically confirms my surmise about how the Energy Font proc is coded.  It can only be procced when the Controller casts, not when Pets and/or Pseudopets cast powers independently of the Controller.  There must be some kind of inherent limitation in the code to prevent pets from summoning pets via procs, which then means that only the initial casting is "valid" for checking the proc chances for Energy Font.

 

Of course, otherwise you'd have Singularity summoning little singularities 😉

[Silverado]

On 4/3/2020 at 6:29 PM, Sir Myshkin said:

Side note: Personally I think Fire/Electric is looking to be one of the more interesting iterations since Fire Imps can get buffed and healed in triplicate pretty quickly, and those buffs can come back to the player, and the set is a little self-fixing from an endurance stand point if enough of the +End procs get dropped around. Might finally be able to run Hot Feet! There's also the obvious Elec/Elec combination for a sap-minded build that also has the same effect on Gremlins from a buff standpoint. Definitely not a Fire/Kin, but a bit more forgiving when it comes to Imp positioning and healing.

I have a somewhat unrelated question about Fire Control. I notice in your builds you did not slot Fire Cages for procs (potentially Trap, Posi, and Anni procs). Why?

[Sir Myshkin]

5 hours ago, Silverado said:

I have a somewhat unrelated question about Fire Control. I notice in your builds you did not slot Fire Cages for procs (potentially Trap, Posi, and Anni procs). Why?

It comes down to necessity in the build more than anything. In the Fire/FF build that was a personal build for one of my own characters that I didn't want to involve Hasten, but the need for some of that additional global has to exist somewhere. In the Fire/Dark/Psi build, that one was purpose built for testing proc triggers in toggles, but also needed to be strong enough to survive sitting in a spawn for long periods of time so a big shift in over-packing WoC and HF.

 

It comes down to the secondary that was paired with it, and the reason it existed in the first place. You could easily toss a bunch of procs in there for sure.

 

And, I can't even tell you how many times I've built, rebuilt, modified, altered, shifted, changed, and stressed over that Fire/FF build trying to squeeze every last ounce of juice out of it.

[Golden Azrael]

I tried the Mad King idea (proc city) on my Sentinel.  Not bad.  (I spliced your sentinel build with a defender 'proc' build.  Not an entirely successful build.

 

Just lacks for accuracy.  I'll do a rebuild staying close to your use of Psi on the epics.

 

A lot of fun in the main.  I emphasis the unstoppable power.  Gives insane def' numbers.  I have to time the 'drop' to put my shields back up.

 

Azrael.

[ThrillMill]

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Controller
Primary Power Set: Plant Control
Secondary Power Set: Poison
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Stone Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strangler -- Dvs-Acc/Dmg(A), Dvs-Hold%(3), Lck-%Hold(3), Lck-Acc/Hold(5), HO:Perox(5), HO:Perox(7)
Level 1: Alkaloid -- Heal-I(A)
Level 2: Envenom -- ShlBrk-Acc/DefDeb(A), ShlBrk-%Dam(7), TchofLadG-%Dam(15), AchHee-ResDeb%(17)
Level 4: Weaken -- CldSns-ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(17), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(19), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(19)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Seeds of Confusion -- CrcPrs-Conf(A), CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(9), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(9), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(11), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(11), CrcPrs-Conf%(13)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(15)
Level 12: Roots -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(25)
Level 18: Vines -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(25), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(34), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(36)
Level 20: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(21), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(21)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(23), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(23)
Level 24: Super Jump -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(36)
Level 26: Carrion Creepers -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dam%(27), JvlVll-Dam%(27), TraoftheH-Dam%(29), ImpSwf-Dam%(29), ExpStr-Dam%(31)
Level 28: Paralytic Poison -- UnbCns-Acc/Hold/Rchg(A), UnbCns-Dam%(31), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(31), GldNet-Dam%(33), NrnSht-Dam%(33), Lck-%Hold(33)
Level 30: Neurotoxic Breath -- PcnoftheT-Acc/Slow(A)
Level 32: Fly Trap -- SlbAll-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), SlbAll-Dmg/Rchg(40), SlbAll-Dmg(40)
Level 35: Poison Trap -- Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Dam%(36), Obl-%Dam(37), ScrDrv-Dam%(37), Erd-%Dam(37), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(39)
Level 38: Venomous Gas -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(39), DarWtcDsp-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(39), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Fissure -- JvlVll-Acc/Dmg(A), JvlVll-Dam%(42), PstBls-Dam%(42), ExpStr-Dam%(42), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(43)
Level 44: Seismic Smash -- Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Dam%(45), TchofDth-Dam%(45), Mk'Bit-Dam%(45), GldNet-Dam%(46), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(46)
Level 47: Earth's Embrace -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(48), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(48), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(48), Pnc-Heal(50)
Level 49: Rock Armor -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(50), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(43), Mrc-Rcvry+(46)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(43)
Level 50: Nerve Partial Core Revamp 
------------

[Frostweaver]

After working with it for a while, ill/traps just isn't a good proc monster. I mean, it doesn't really need it, but it's ALL PETS with the pet proc limits, and if you WANT perma PA there's just too many demands on your sets to give you the freedom to proc up.