Marshal_General Posted August 18, 2019 Author Share Posted August 18, 2019 How do you rate the need for a good reliable heal (recharge 0f 20 or less seconds after haste) in relation of resist and defense layering? Of course having a good heal is great, but that limits you to certain armors and dark melee(?) . This is what got me thinking about a tank character after all. I would do random summer events, trails and TFs and sometimes have no tank and struggle or have no heals or buff/debuffs and struggle. I decided I would make a tank that could heal itself and hopefully have some good buffs or debuffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werner Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 In a sense, healing is fundamental. All damage mitigation can be considered merely a multiplier for your healing. If you're running Dark Armor, say, with massive recharge and Dark Regeneration for a full heal every 10 seconds, you're going to be amazing... right up until the moment you faceplant. And I say this as someone who loves Dark Armor and has pushed it hard. I did my share of Stupid Scrapper Tricks. But I wouldn't want to play a team tank like that. You gotta have defense. You gotta have resistance. I consider those more important in the real world, no matter what the numbers on paper say. But once you have them nice and solid, more healing is definitely better. I'd personally be uncomfortable playing a character without either high regeneration or a good fast heal. But you can definitely tank with sets without either if your other layers are really solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperstrike Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 7 hours ago, Werner said: In a sense, healing is fundamental. All damage mitigation can be considered merely a multiplier for your healing. If you're running Dark Armor, say, with massive recharge and Dark Regeneration for a full heal every 10 seconds, you're going to be amazing... right up until the moment you faceplant. And I say this as someone who loves Dark Armor and has pushed it hard. I did my share of Stupid Scrapper Tricks. But I wouldn't want to play a team tank like that. You gotta have defense. You gotta have resistance. I consider those more important in the real world, no matter what the numbers on paper say. But once you have them nice and solid, more healing is definitely better. I'd personally be uncomfortable playing a character without either high regeneration or a good fast heal. But you can definitely tank with sets without either if your other layers are really solid. Exactly. Healing/Regen is *NOT* (and I repeat *NOT*) "mitigation". But it doesn't mean it's not still a part of a Brute/Scrapper/Tank's bag of tricks. If you want to be godlike, pick anything. If you want to be GOD, pick a TANK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 18 hours ago, Hyperstrike said: You're talking in the absence of all other considerations. And, in that case, sure. You're right. The problem is, the game isn't this sort of vacuum. I know I am right, and it WILL mitigate the alpha if nothing else, what happens after that is up to the user and skill takes over. What would you rather have all the alphas hitting you, half or less, or close to none? To me close to none is invaluable and it's what mine plays like. To each their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperstrike Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Infinitum said: I know I am right, and it WILL mitigate the alpha if nothing else, what happens after that is up to the user and skill takes over. ... 1 hour ago, Infinitum said: What would you rather have all the alphas hitting you, half or less, or close to none? Honestly? As long as I'm standing at the end of the fighting? I DON'T CARE. If you want to be godlike, pick anything. If you want to be GOD, pick a TANK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Hyperstrike said: ... Honestly? As long as I'm standing at the end of the fighting? I DON'T CARE. Same here, so what are we arguing about? lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperstrike Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Infinitum said: Same here, so what are we arguing about? lol We're not "arguing"! Nothing so plebian! We are "exploring the rhetorical depths of cerebral exercises". Whew! I'm sweating simply CONTEMPLATING that! 2 If you want to be godlike, pick anything. If you want to be GOD, pick a TANK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Hyperstrike said: We're not "arguing"! Nothing so plebian! We are "exploring the rhetorical depths of cerebral exercises". Whew! I'm sweating simply CONTEMPLATING that! So now all that's left to query is... Could you spare some Grey Poupon? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrmidon Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 5 hours ago, Hyperstrike said: We're not "arguing"! Nothing so plebian! We are "exploring the rhetorical depths of cerebral exercises". Whew! I'm sweating simply CONTEMPLATING that! Them’s mighty big words for a Brute/Tanker thread. Playing CoX is it’s own reward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperstrike Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 6 hours ago, Infinitum said: So now all that's left to query is... Could you spare some Grey Poupon? Gallic Accent: But of course! 3 hours ago, Myrmidon said: Them’s mighty big words for a Brute/Tanker thread. I gots me some vo cab you larry lesson! 1 If you want to be godlike, pick anything. If you want to be GOD, pick a TANK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profit Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 (edited) On 8/16/2019 at 3:38 PM, Infinitum said: Basically if I can survive the fire +4/8 and sl +4/8 ae missions indefinitely - while also tanking the new maria Arc +4/8 solo, there's not much I can't do on a team for instance apex or tin mage tfs or even incarnate trials. I do not feel this is a good metric for tanking because I do this on my archery/ninja blaster. I've 'tanked' Ghost Widow on that blaster by pulling her away from the team and just putting arrows in her until they finished the other three and hover tanked recluse the same way (which I don't ever want to do again, without taunt and the team looks at a pylon funny? you better have incarnate nuke ready or he loses attention real quick). Having said that, tanking is about battlefield management as well as survivability. I was told by a brute one night that I was a good tank because he didn't notice his toggles were off and I was maintaining aggro well enough it took 3/4s of the mission before he realized it because he just wasn't taking any damage. That's a good metric for tankiness. (Edited to add I was on my inv/ss tank when this happened.) Edited August 20, 2019 by Profit There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrmidon Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 50 minutes ago, Profit said: I do not feel this is a good metric for tanking because I do this on my archery/ninja blaster. I've 'tanked' Ghost Widow on that blaster by pulling her away from the team and just putting arrows in her until they finished the other three and hover tanked recluse the same way (which I don't ever want to do again, without taunt and the team looks at a pylon funny? you better have incarnate nuke ready or he loses attention real quick). Having said that, tanking is about battlefield management as well as survivability. I was told by a brute one night that I was a good tank because he didn't notice his toggles were off and I was maintaining aggro well enough it took 3/4s of the mission before he realized it because he just wasn't taking any damage. That's a good metric for tankiness. (Edited to add I was on my inv/ss tank when this happened.) That certainly wasn’t a Nemesis mission or he would have realized it very quickly.🤣 Playing CoX is it’s own reward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Profit said: I do not feel this is a good metric for tanking because I do this on my archery/ninja blaster. I've 'tanked' Ghost Widow on that blaster by pulling her away from the team and just putting arrows in her until they finished the other three and hover tanked recluse the same way (which I don't ever want to do again, without taunt and the team looks at a pylon funny? you better have incarnate nuke ready or he loses attention real quick). Having said that, tanking is about battlefield management as well as survivability. I was told by a brute one night that I was a good tank because he didn't notice his toggles were off and I was maintaining aggro well enough it took 3/4s of the mission before he realized it because he just wasn't taking any damage. That's a good metric for tankiness. (Edited to add I was on my inv/ss tank when this happened.) You are going to solo every +4/8 Maria mission including the newer praetorian ones on your blaster without any team support? We are talking about builds and survivability, not battlefield awareness, that can't be slotted in mids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal_General Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 My problem is that I get caught up in the numbers. I see the resist cap and defense soft caps and try to reach all of them along with having a heal that is around 20 seconds or lower. I am not sure it can be done effectively on a brute. I have been trying with a stone/dark which also means I have to also worry about end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrmidon Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 9 hours ago, Marshal_General said: My problem is that I get caught up in the numbers. I see the resist cap and defense soft caps and try to reach all of them along with having a heal that is around 20 seconds or lower. I am not sure it can be done effectively on a brute. I have been trying with a stone/dark which also means I have to also worry about end. I would say that you might be a masochist for trying to make all of that work. Playing CoX is it’s own reward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profit Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 15 hours ago, Infinitum said: You are going to solo every +4/8 Maria mission including the newer praetorian ones on your blaster without any team support? Are you including AVs in that as well or just clearing the missions beyond AVs? Because a tank isn't going to be able to overcome AV regen level by himself, neither is a brute probably. If you're just talking about clearing the maps (minus the AVs), then yeah shouldn't be an issue. There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 19 minutes ago, Profit said: Are you including AVs in that as well or just clearing the missions beyond AVs? Because a tank isn't going to be able to overcome AV regen level by himself, neither is a brute probably. If you're just talking about clearing the maps (minus the AVs), then yeah shouldn't be an issue. No not AVs, but I'm having a hard time believing that a blaster can clear a +4/8 praetorian resistance or imperial defense enemy set solo. Its certainly not optimal at best. Thats a lot of damage and debuffing to overcome with an AT that basically has no native mitigation to any of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profit Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Infinitum said: No not AVs, but I'm having a hard time believing that a blaster can clear a +4/8 praetorian resistance or imperial defense enemy set solo. Its certainly not optimal at best. Thats a lot of damage and debuffing to overcome with an AT that basically has no native mitigation to any of that. No worries, I get that a lot with this blaster. But I'm also packing quite some numbers on him to. A 4x8 asteroid is easily accomplished. He's a bit of an end hog though, haven't quite figured out how to fix that. There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 35 minutes ago, Profit said: No worries, I get that a lot with this blaster. But I'm also packing quite some numbers on him to. A 4x8 asteroid is easily accomplished. He's a bit of an end hog though, haven't quite figured out how to fix that. Asteroid is only one part of what I look for, Praetorian Maria missions I dont see him lasting too long. Those are obscenely good numbers though for a blaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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