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Pylon Damage Thread


Project_X

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CS kinda sucks for DPS.

 

I suspected that would still be the case, but I'm really thankful of you posting some results.  I rolled up a KM/SR on test too and I was messing around with. 

 

I was mostly trying to gauge if the new ATO brought any value back to CS and if I wanted to keep it around for the occasional Placate + CS lulz. 

 

Even with casual testing that was not turning out to be the case, and I'm also really glad you retested with Body Blow.  It's absence was making me scratch my head since BB and SB were bread and butter for the old live attack chain. 

 

I'll still keep CS and I'll keep it muling that ATO build-up proc if it is truly global.  I might try some other tests with it to confirm, but that may not happen until the weekend. 

 

Anyway, thanks again for posting the results!

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Created a Peacebringer on Justin and maxed it out to see how far it can go.

 

T4 Musculature Core Paragon

T4 Reactive Radial Flawless Interface

T4 Ageless Core Epiphany

T4 Assault Radial Embodiment

 

Attack chain is Radiant Strike - Cross Punch - Gleaming Blast, all slotted with a purple damage proc and a -res proc. Photon Seekers, Light Form, Inner Light, Ageless, Assault Radial were all used when available, the build can be found in this thread: https://forums.homecomingservers.com/index.php/topic,5115.0.html

 

After a few practice runs and waiting for lag to go through I started seeing times around 5-6 minutes, with one run going as low as 4:40 minutes. So I'll average it out to 5:30 minutes for 244 DPS. Not great, but this is to test how a fully kitted-out PB can compete.

 

I also tried running some non-pylon content, but the KB grossed me out so I stopped.

 

 

 

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1 Minute 23 seconds on my PvE softcapped to all Ice/Fire blaster.  (I.E. not built for max pylon times or max ST DPS).  589 DPS with no lore pets.

 

I recorded 4 runs, will upload the fastest (ranged from I think 1:32 to 1:23 so pretty close)

 

Attack chain is Burn when up.  Blizzard when up.  Then BiB/Freeze Ray /Fire Sword when those powers are down.  Aim and BU weaved in as they come up, but apparently only have them slotted for 1 recharge .

 

 

An excellent time and strong performance; nice job!

 

Did you happen to do any times without the hybrid toggle on? No worries if not.

 

Thanks! And sadly I did not.

 

Any chance you could post a build link for either this or the Fire/EM build you had a video with?  I am having a tough time figuring out how to hit perma Hasten while capping more than just ranged deff (Or ranged +S/L/E if I go scorp), but it looked like you managed to get better def than I have figured out how to do, while having more recharge as well.

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On Justin

 

Demon/thermal mm. T4 musculature, t4 assault (the double hit one), t4 Degen (25% hp proc 75% dot proc), t4 ageless, t4 void (I only fired it once I think cause i'm an airhead)

 

149 seconds, 385.18 dps.

 

when you watch the video realize that it could have been a crapton higher as my pets were being knocked away and my demon prince was stuck in ragdoll a few times.

 

im happy. lost zero pets. My final live build will be different and will have an attack to spam for more -resist

 

pets are hardcapped resists to smash/lethal/toxic/cold/fire 54% to energy/neg and naked when it comes to psi :(

 

 

 

 

 

added beasts/time, same incarnates. one or two were knocked away and one nearly died but much higher uptime on target and lower -regen from the set. 2:59 for 342 dps

 

thugs/time same incarnates. the tier 1's were knocked around a bit but nobody got stuck in ragdoll like demons. almost lost the tier 1's several times it was hairy. 2:21, 399.79 dps.

 

both beasts/time and thug/time technically had 100% uptime on achilles heel. demons/thermal only has achilles heel in melt armor with a cooldown far longer than it's duration, but the toxic demonling and hellfire demon also apply -20% resist each.

 

so given how much the demons were being knocked away and the issue with the prince being stuck in ragdoll, the -500% regen really made the difference there.

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1 Minute 23 seconds on my PvE softcapped to all Ice/Fire blaster.  (I.E. not built for max pylon times or max ST DPS).  589 DPS with no lore pets.

 

I recorded 4 runs, will upload the fastest (ranged from I think 1:32 to 1:23 so pretty close)

 

Attack chain is Burn when up.  Blizzard when up.  Then BiB/Freeze Ray /Fire Sword when those powers are down.  Aim and BU weaved in as they come up, but apparently only have them slotted for 1 recharge .

 

 

An excellent time and strong performance; nice job!

 

Did you happen to do any times without the hybrid toggle on? No worries if not.

 

Thanks! And sadly I did not.

 

Any chance you could post a build link for either this or the Fire/EM build you had a video with?  I am having a tough time figuring out how to hit perma Hasten while capping more than just ranged deff (Or ranged +S/L/E if I go scorp), but it looked like you managed to get better def than I have figured out how to do, while having more recharge as well.

 

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If you set it to minimum fx, you only get a brief flash from the crapace powers, and some glowies from you adaptations that can be tuned down.

 

Dropping back a second, and specific to TW/Bio - I wonder how much damage the Brute version gives up?  You lose crits, Fury will be lower without a mob swarming you, and Bioarmor gives a smaller bonus to Brutes - but at the same time, you gain a pile of HP, a smoother leveling process, and the Bio Brute is wearing 90% Smash/Lethal Resist. 

Great Justice - Invuln/Energy Melee Tank

Ann Atomic - Radiation/Super Strength Tank

Elecutrix - Electric Blast/Super Reflexes Sentinel

Ramayael - Titan Weapons/Bio Scrapper

C'len - Spines/Bio Brute

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Beta Server (Justin)

 

Katana/Bio Armor Scrapper

 

T4 Musculature Core Paragon

T4 Reactive Radial Flawless Interface

T4 Ageless Core Epiphany

T4 Assault Radial Embodiment (I did not use the clicky/toggle on any tests; just the passive damage bonus)

 

Offensive Adaptation

No outside buffs, no recovery serum, no inspirations. Strictly just what my character has.

 

It's hump day, which means more pylon testing! This time, I'd like to test out another underrated set (but not as much as War Mace); it's Katana time!

 

Numerically, other sets have higher DPA, per similar time interval(s), chains than katana does. It also uses the slightly inferior lethal-typing of damage. BUT, it can also slot in both the fury of the gladiator -res, and Achilles Heel -res, procs. That means it has the potential for some serious sustained DPS, but how much you might wonder?

 

As always, the build used a pretty standard template similar to my other /bio scrappers, oriented towards general PvE (e.g. softcapped s/l defenses).

 

How I started every attempt: Hasten + Ageless (prepull stage) - Begin timer as soon as I hit Build-Up.

 

Attempts with following rotation: Golden Dragonfly - Gambler's Cut - Soaring Dragon - Gambler's Cut - repeat (Another 3 button rotation, but you have to weave! Oooooh!)

 

2:01 = 449.7

2:16 = 414.75

2:06 = 437.13

1:56 = 463.36

1:54 = 469.16

2:00 = 452.34

1:56 = 463.36

1:58 = 457.76

 

Rather impressive! This is definitely a reflection of both katana's strong ST chain, as well as the power of having 2 different types of -res procs in said chain. There aren't too many sets for scrapper (but there are maybe a few!) that can beat it for ST damage, and it has passable AOE as well. The damage typing is still a bit of a bummer, but overall a very good set and showing!

 

Gooo...Gambler's Cut?

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I just did a quick test how the Dominator would work out on test

 

Dark Assault+Ice Mastery (Test Server with snipe changes)

 

Degenerative Core Flawless

Musculature Core Paragon

Ageless Core Epiphany (for endurance)

Perma Domination

 

 

Chain:Smite-Midnight Grasp-Gloom-Moon Beam (Gather Shadows-Sleet when up)

 

Assualt Radial Embodiment (double dmg)

 

2:20  ~401.72dps

2:21  ~399.78dps

 

 

Assault Core Embodiment (+dmg)

 

2:13 ~416.13dps

2:04 ~437.96dps

 

The +dmg Dominator proc was in Midnight Grasp. Pure +dmg Hyprid slot did work a little better then the double hit

Sleet did have both (target aoe) -res procs in it

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1 Minute 23 seconds on my PvE softcapped to all Ice/Fire blaster.  (I.E. not built for max pylon times or max ST DPS).  589 DPS with no lore pets.

 

I recorded 4 runs, will upload the fastest (ranged from I think 1:32 to 1:23 so pretty close)

 

Attack chain is Burn when up.  Blizzard when up.  Then BiB/Freeze Ray /Fire Sword when those powers are down.  Aim and BU weaved in as they come up, but apparently only have them slotted for 1 recharge .

 

 

An excellent time and strong performance; nice job!

 

Did you happen to do any times without the hybrid toggle on? No worries if not.

 

Thanks! And sadly I did not.

 

Any chance you could post a build link for either this or the Fire/EM build you had a video with?  I am having a tough time figuring out how to hit perma Hasten while capping more than just ranged deff (Or ranged +S/L/E if I go scorp), but it looked like you managed to get better def than I have figured out how to do, while having more recharge as well.

 

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Thanks, I am deffinitly seeing some advantages from going Scorp+typed def instead of res shield + positional def, though for general PvE I do kind of like some of the toys that come with res shields vs Scorp where I dont really want anything other than the shield.

 

Any chance I could see the ice/fire one as well?  I have tried to come up with a couple farming builds using /fire, but I always wind up super slot starved.  I am guessing I just need to be more creative with +5'd IOs to cut down on slots in certain powers, but it would be nice to see how its done :p

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Beta Server (Justin)

 

1) Claws/Bio Armor Scrapper

 

T4 Musculature Core Paragon

T4 Reactive Radial Flawless Interface

T4 Ageless Core Epiphany

T4 Assault Radial Embodiment (I did not use the clicky/toggle on any tests; just the passive damage bonus)

 

Offensive Adaptation

No outside buffs, no recovery serum, no inspirations. Strictly just what my character has.

 

The testing for this, and the next, melee set came from some interesting conversations I've been having with other players. In the interest of providing a small sample of what kinds of times these sets could do, given the same base /bio armor template, I decided to put these to the test.

 

How I started every attempt: Hasten + Ageless (prepull stage) - Begin timer as soon as I hit Follow-Up/Soul Drain

 

Rotation: Follow Up - Slash - Focus - Shockwave - repeat

 

2:50 = 358.36

2:52 = 355.74

2:54 = 353.18

2:49 = 359.7

2:48 = 361.05

 

This honestly did not surprise me; this is still solid ST DPS but claws is notable for its strong AOE presence. However, it does not match the ST DPS of the sets that are more specialized/focused on that role; just examining the DPA of each of the moves it would use in its chain, and then comparing it to a ST high performer like Dual Blades or War Mace, reveals that it simply cannot put in the same DPA per time interval as those sets can. Still, this is by no means a bad showing, especially with the AOE it has!

 

2) Dark Melee/Bio Armor Scrapper

 

T4 Musculature Core Paragon

T4 Reactive Radial Flawless Interface

T4 Ageless Core Epiphany

T4 Assault Radial Embodiment (I did not use the clicky/toggle on any tests; just the passive damage bonus)

 

Offensive Adaptation

No outside buffs, no recovery serum, no inspirations. Strictly just what my character has.

 

Rotation: Soul Drain (1 stack maintained for this testing, from just hitting the pylon for a 60% damage buff; no saturation) - Smite - Midnight Grasp - Smite - Siphon Life - repeat

 

2:28 = 391.89

2:43 = 368.05

2:25 = 397.25

2:32 = 385.07

2:31 = 386.74

 

This also did not surprise me as well; knowing that the ST rotation couldn't slot any -res procs, and the single damage buff is a nice 60% damage boost but dark melee's base DPA on its move chain is not extraordinarily high, I expected times roughly similar to my Martial Arts character and I was right. The interesting thing to consider is, even when greatly saturated, would it still produce similar times the top ST performers that have been presented up to this point? My intuition tells me that, in the best case, it would be competitive with some of the highest scrapper ST performers (DB/War Mace/Katana of the ones I've tested), but I actually am not sure if it would beat them all out handily. Its maximum point of saturation is 150% damage buff (10 targets), which would be incredibly hard to achieve; anywhere from 5-8, at most, seems much more reasonable.

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Thanks, I am deffinitly seeing some advantages from going Scorp+typed def instead of res shield + positional def, though for general PvE I do kind of like some of the toys that come with res shields vs Scorp where I dont really want anything other than the shield.

 

Any chance I could see the ice/fire one as well?  I have tried to come up with a couple farming builds using /fire, but I always wind up super slot starved.  I am guessing I just need to be more creative with +5'd IOs to cut down on slots in certain powers, but it would be nice to see how its done :p

 

I'll PM you my Farm build and my normal PvE build to avoid some clutter in here.

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Fire/Elec Blaster again, with Lightning Field now, a damage proc in all my ST attacks, and using Inferno when it's up, 3 min, 2 seconds, for 338 DPS.  Which is better, but still less than I'd like.  I could get that down a bit if I sorted my attack chain out properly.  This is without the Assault Hybrid.

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Beta Server (Justin)

 

Fiery Melee/Bio Armor Scrapper

 

T4 Musculature Core Paragon

T4 Reactive Radial Flawless Interface

T4 Ageless Core Epiphany

T4 Assault Radial Embodiment (I did not use the clicky/toggle on any tests; just the passive damage bonus)

 

Offensive Adaptation

No outside buffs, no recovery serum, no inspirations. Strictly just what my character has.

 

And the last testing stretch for tonight, fiery melee!

 

Often considered one of the highest ST DPS sets, fiery melee's disadvantage for this type of testing situation is that it carries no ability to stack -res procs into its attack chain; it's all about the numbers! So what kind of numbers did it produce?

 

As always, the build used a pretty standard template similar to my other /bio scrappers, oriented towards general PvE (e.g. softcapped s/l defenses).

 

How I started every attempt: Hasten + Ageless (prepull stage) - Begin timer as soon as I hit Build-Up.

 

Attempts with following rotation: Greater Fire Sword - Incinerate - Cremate

 

Attempt 1: 2:10 = 427.76

Attempt 2: 2:29 = 390.15

Attempt 3: 2:33 = 383.43

Attempt 4: 2:21 = 404.75

Attempt 5: 2:12 = 423.295

Attempt 6: 2:19 = 408.67

 

While these times are "slower" than the other ones I've posted (katana/war mace/dual blades), one thing to note is that this is a pretty close reflection of its "raw damage output" whereas the other ones are demonstrating their solid ST DPS in conjunction with the power of -resistance debuffs on a target for sustained damage.

 

All things considered, I am impressed by fiery melee's strong ST damage; it has a superior damage typing and it is highly endurance efficient. Its primary disadvantages are: the damage of these moves are DoT-based to a degree (versus upfront), and fiery melee's "secondary effect" is raw damage with no CC capability. Still, it's another rock solid set to play with!

 

Gooo Incinerate!

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Beta Server (Justin)

 

1) Claws/Bio Armor Scrapper

 

T4 Musculature Core Paragon

T4 Reactive Radial Flawless Interface

T4 Ageless Core Epiphany

T4 Assault Radial Embodiment (I did not use the clicky/toggle on any tests; just the passive damage bonus)

 

Rotation: Follow Up - Slash - Focus - Shockwave - repeat

 

2:50 = 358.36

2:52 = 355.74

2:54 = 353.18

2:49 = 359.7

2:48 = 361.05

 

This honestly did not surprise me; this is still solid ST DPS but claws is notable for its strong AOE presence. However, it does not match the ST DPS of the sets that are more specialized/focused on that role; just examining the DPA of each of the moves it would use in its chain, and then comparing it to a ST high performer like Dual Blades or War Mace, reveals that it simply cannot put in the same DPA per time interval as those sets can. Still, this is by no means a bad showing, especially with the AOE it has!

 

Since you've put the characters together, if they're still there, would you be willing to go back and try something different for Claws?

 

Follow Up > Focus > Slash, if you have the recharge for it (with Ageless I'd imagine you should at the front end for sure). If you can get (or have already) gotten Follow Up to 3.10/s or less in recharge, then this chain would end up with a triple-stacked Follow Up on Focus once the chain is rolling.

 

Of course I'm assuming you did put the -Res in Slash. And if you could swap Reactive for Degenerative -MaxHP 75% (should be a faster time, marginally, but it should).

 

I ran Claws/Regen back on Live and that was before the advent of the bonus critical procs for the new Scrapper ATO, or Bio Armor's massive scale of damage boosting, or any of the PPM changes to procs in general. It tapped out at 240 DPS back then.

 

These changes should be a higher DPS, just curious what you would get if you ran it.

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Some good thoughts, but I looked into this more and wanted to share some of my own reservations:

 

1) The rotation of Follow Up - Slash - Focus requires approximately 315% recharge in Follow Up to achieve "gapless"; I'd say at recharge levels of 300% or less, it starts to become debatable if the damage gain from brief periods of "triple stacked FU" outweigh the short delays you'll start to experience while waiting for FU. For bio armor, you can only achieve this level of recharge by either A) taking Agility Alpha (not recommended for scrapper) and/or B) the first substantial boosts of ageless destiny (which is doable but requires a little more attention to watching your recharge time and switching mid-attempt). Also note that, in addition to using Achilles Heel' in Slash, I also use Annihilation in Shockwave; these are two separate -res procs, and therefore the latter is another major contributor to single target DPS.

 

2) I think it's entirely possible that degenerative could shave off time on my pylons, but I want to clarify that in these tests (up to this point) my goal has not been to have the "ultimate pylon kill times"; there's quite a few things I would change in my minds to work towards that goal (I could stand to drop below s/l softcap, add more % damage and/or slot some of my stuff even more offensively, completely neuter my self-healing skills, which are things I normally use in general gameplay, and use those slots for more damage-oriented bonuses).

 

I mention this because, even in the old Rikti Pylon thread days, the difference between reactive and degenerative in testing purposes was how substantial the latter impacted an unusual situation like the Rikti Pylon tests (a very, very large health pool target); -max HP definitely is more substantial there in terms of "reducing total health needed to kill".

 

The stated goal, as I've mentioned, has been to use a standard template with "general PvE build goals" in mind, and to see how each primary set does with the given levels of recharge, defensive stats/tools I would normally have, and make a comparison based on keeping those things relatively constant (I say relative because sometimes slotting for things like epic pool powers changes depending on if the primary pool can take unusual slots such as Armageddon or Ragnarok).

 

 

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Beta Server (Justin)

 

Ice Melee/Bio Armor Scrapper

 

T4 Musculature Core Paragon

T4 Reactive Radial Flawless Interface

T4 Ageless Core Epiphany

T4 Assault Radial Embodiment (I did not use the clicky/toggle on any tests; just the passive damage bonus)

 

Offensive Adaptation

No outside buffs, no recovery serum, no inspirations. Strictly just what my character has.

 

Thursday means more pylon attempts, yes?

 

Ice melee has an odd distribution of attacks; most of its ST attacks are low-moderate in DPA, and then there's freezing touch; this is truly the "clobber of the set." The set also has a nice damage typing, similar to fiery melee, and some slow attached to its secondary effects. But how does it perform for ST damage?

 

As always, the build used a pretty standard template similar to my other /bio scrappers, oriented towards general PvE (e.g. softcapped s/l defenses).

 

How I started every attempt: Hasten + Ageless (prepull stage) - Begin timer as soon as I hit Build-Up.

 

Attempts with following rotation: Freezing Touch - Greater Ice Sword - Ice Sword - repeat

 

Attempt 1: 2:44 = 366.62

Attempt 2: 2:25 = 397.25

Attempt 3: 2:27 = 393.65

Attempt 4: 2:15 = 416.84

Attempt 5: 2:27 = 393.65

Attempt 6: 2:13 = 421.11

 

Pretty cool, ice melee! One thing to note is that this set has pretty high (but not DB-level high) recharge requirements to pull off this rotation with minimal/no gap (ageless really helps with this, even just the 10% component). One nice thing is that freezing touch can be equipped with TWO epic damage procs (unbreakable constraint + hecatomb), which is quite nice.

 

Another nice set with some decent AOE moves to boot, and a handy secondary.

 

Gooo Freezing Touch!

 

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Beta Server (Justin)

 

Katana/Bio Armor Scrapper

 

T4 Musculature Core Paragon

T4 Reactive Radial Flawless Interface

T4 Ageless Core Epiphany

T4 Assault Radial Embodiment (I did not use the clicky/toggle on any tests; just the passive damage bonus)

 

Offensive Adaptation

No outside buffs, no recovery serum, no inspirations. Strictly just what my character has.

 

It's hump day, which means more pylon testing! This time, I'd like to test out another underrated set (but not as much as War Mace); it's Katana time!

 

Numerically, other sets have higher DPA, per similar time interval(s), chains than katana does. It also uses the slightly inferior lethal-typing of damage. BUT, it can also slot in both the fury of the gladiator -res, and Achilles Heel -res, procs. That means it has the potential for some serious sustained DPS, but how much you might wonder?

 

As always, the build used a pretty standard template similar to my other /bio scrappers, oriented towards general PvE (e.g. softcapped s/l defenses).

 

How I started every attempt: Hasten + Ageless (prepull stage) - Begin timer as soon as I hit Build-Up.

 

Attempts with following rotation: Golden Dragonfly - Gambler's Cut - Soaring Dragon - Gambler's Cut - repeat (Another 3 button rotation, but you have to weave! Oooooh!)

 

2:01 = 449.7

2:16 = 414.75

2:06 = 437.13

1:56 = 463.36

1:54 = 469.16

2:00 = 452.34

1:56 = 463.36

1:58 = 457.76

 

Rather impressive! This is definitely a reflection of both katana's strong ST chain, as well as the power of having 2 different types of -res procs in said chain. There aren't too many sets for scrapper (but there are maybe a few!) that can beat it for ST damage, and it has passable AOE as well. The damage typing is still a bit of a bummer, but overall a very good set and showing!

 

Gooo...Gambler's Cut?

 

My suggestion for you as a katana user. First move -res procs to golden dragonfly and soaring dragon and put critical strikes proc into gamblers cut. There is a visible increase in damage since GC is before both GD and SD in chain. Another thing degenerative radial flawless is better when facing EB AV Monster, GM and pylons than reactive and with fast attack speed of katan you can keep stacked up on pylon the HP reduction debuff constantly. The hybrid toggle also changes dps drastically because of fast attack chain. My live time best was under 1 min. (I am SR so most of time didn't need to use a destiny or occasionally use barrier before i start bashing because of resist)

 

There is power analyser sold in p2w you can check effectiveness of your interface with it on pylon.

 

One last thing with enough recharge speed the attack chain can be reduced to SD-GC-GD but because of placement of procs this attack chain produces less damage than proper SD-GC-GD-GC. Oh and start with SD or GC since they will both drop defense if they hit and their proc will trigger if you are lucky which will increase GD's damage compared to starting with GD alone. It is also better using build up (which should have gaussian build up proc it triggers %90 of the times) right before GD but after using GC reason is GC's animation is short and it can trigger critical strike which adds to double build up turning it into a quadruple.

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So I made all of the changes you recommended, and...well I stopped keeping track of my times after about attempt 10 (using degenerative, making the EXACT changes to my attack slotting as you recommended, using build up and changing my opener, all compared to my original).

 

I was not impressed; the times did not improve by any substantial margin (even with enough recharge to run the chain gapless and now being under s/l softcap, but I tested for the sake of verifying your claim). My single best time with this new set-up was 1:53 after 10 attempts; at best it pretty much matched what I had tested prior; I had pretty similar times compared to my original set-up.

 

Also, respectfully, please, please video yourself when you get a sub-1 minute time with a katana/SR scrapper (even with the hybrid) and then post it, along with the build; I'm assuming this is with a softcapped-to-all PvE build or was this with a specialized pylon build? Because that would mean you did in excess of 770DPS (which even a hybrid toggle TW/Bio ideally-built scrapper would have to push really hard to reach).

 

It was worth trying your recommendations, and one thing I did learn was that the katana rotation is pretty efficient (and could be sustained without ageless if I changed a few things around). That was at least a good experience.

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Rather impressive! This is definitely a reflection of both katana's strong ST chain, as well as the power of having 2 different types of -res procs in said chain. There aren't too many sets for scrapper (but there are maybe a few!) that can beat it for ST damage, and it has passable AOE as well. The damage typing is still a bit of a bummer, but overall a very good set and showing!

 

Gooo...Gambler's Cut?

 

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought SotW on Homecoming has a 10 second base recharge... wouldn't that make it stronger for the new PPM system? As the DPA of GC is only a little better than SotW... I know on Live, prior to the PPM changes, GD>GC>SD>GC was the go to chain (1,3,2,3 for my Kat/Regen), but I'm curious, as from what I remember on running HOmecoming numbers, SotW gets better PPM chances...

Death is the best debuff.

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Sting of the Wasp has a 5s base recharge. If it had a 10s recharge, but kept the DPA/stats it has, in "theory" it'd have a higher chance to proc attacks but it'd be an awful move with that amount of recharge.

 

Gambler's cut is still the way to go for filler.

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One thing I'm curious with on Savage Melee:  how does Hemmorage impact DPS.  I want to look into this myself, but my cubital tunnel syndrome (carpal tunnel syndrome's lesser known sibling) is flaring up and preventing me from playing any WASD-controlled games (which is like... 75% of everything I have) for more than a dozen minutes, so it'll be a while before I can look into it myself.  So, if anyone wants to look into it, I'm curious on these scenarios...

 

1.  No Hemmorage

2.  Use Hemmorage all the time

3.  Hemmorage > Blood Thirst only (no/minimal loss of Blood Frenzy stacks)

 

If anyone wants to look into those on some Pylon tests, that'd be great.  If not?  Well, I'll get to it myself in a week or two and share when my left wrist isn't wanting to nuke me for using WASD controls, holding my steering wheel a certain way, or whatever other arbitrary actions it decides it doesn't like.

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I took a run-up at the Kinetic Melee version.  Unfortunately, I have to agree with the above tester.  Results werent just bad, they were excerable, and though they got slightly less excerable when you dropped the T9 attack, it didnt make much difference.

 

Now, I will grant, my execution wasnt the best - Id mis-time things, waste stealth.. but the Kinetics 'DPS Build' is really a gimmick build based on:

1.)  Getting Assassin Strike procc'ed up for the crit during a large buildup stack

2.)  Getting the rehide proc off of Assassin Strike (I was NOT reliably getting the rehide proc.. less than half the time, at 50 on test, which is ODD.. I feel like I get it a lot more often on live)

3.)  Firing off your 3 second T9 to refresh the cooldown on buildup - and having that happen at a time where theres real value to it (I most reliably took B/U off cooldown when it was at 5 seconds or less).

 

I put Gaussians in buildup and specifically measured my B/U times to make sure that Gaussians would trigger nearly every time - and the double buildup IS sexy - but the overall low damage of the set coupled with longish animations and no high damage attack to dump crits into results in a set that doesnt properly take advantage of the changed enviornment of the ATO proc (and it was not a well regarded set to begin with)

Great Justice - Invuln/Energy Melee Tank

Ann Atomic - Radiation/Super Strength Tank

Elecutrix - Electric Blast/Super Reflexes Sentinel

Ramayael - Titan Weapons/Bio Scrapper

C'len - Spines/Bio Brute

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So I made all of the changes you recommended, and...well I stopped keeping track of my times after about attempt 10 (using degenerative, making the EXACT changes to my attack slotting as you recommended, using build up and changing my opener, all compared to my original).

 

I was not impressed; the times did not improve by any substantial margin (even with enough recharge to run the chain gapless and now being under s/l softcap, but I tested for the sake of verifying your claim). My single best time with this new set-up was 1:53 after 10 attempts; at best it pretty much matched what I had tested prior; I had pretty similar times compared to my original set-up.

 

Also, respectfully, please, please video yourself when you get a sub-1 minute time with a katana/SR scrapper (even with the hybrid) and then post it, along with the build; I'm assuming this is with a softcapped-to-all PvE build or was this with a specialized pylon build? Because that would mean you did in excess of 770DPS (which even a hybrid toggle TW/Bio ideally-built scrapper would have to push really hard to reach).

 

It was worth trying your recommendations, and one thing I did learn was that the katana rotation is pretty efficient (and could be sustained without ageless if I changed a few things around). That was at least a good experience.

 

That sub 1 min was wrong on my part I am katana SR and my times were at the 3 min mark when it was live granted there was no bio armor when i made the toon. It was an under 2 minute for me that was out of chart but I got lots of critical hit from the proc it was during i23 or i24 beta. I might even had amplfier to test the damage boost. One thing though I heard currently all interface DoT's are underperforming so it might have some relation to that.

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I know I said I wasn't going to run another test, but the whole Assassin's Focus/Quick Strike thing was really bugging the hell out of me, so I revisited things with more extensive tests.

 

Quick Strike's Focus trigger is...basically non-existent. I ran nine more tests, and it was pretty consistently not-present. The only time I'd really see it was when I popped BU in the midst of the chain. Something about the extra 1.32/s delay helped I guess, not sure. I checked this after having respec'd Body Blow into the build (swapped out intended build's Focus attack, for testing). Quick Strike has ... without really counting the numbers, what appears to be something like a 10% chance of creating Assassin's Focus, where SB and BB were consistent (~75%-80% chance), and AS continuously ate those stacks.

 

I recorded things for prosperity this round:

T4 Musculature, T4 Degenerative (-MaxHP 75%) consistent throughout all these tests. T4 Hybrid (2x) was toggled on for specific runs to get a metric difference. In all cases Build Up was used immediately in order to take advantage of the fast repeating attacks and the 5% proc chance (ontop of having a pretty solid recharge).

 

  • 3:42 - Stand Alone chain, SB>BB>QS>AS
  • 2:23 - T4 Hybrid
  • 3:13 - Attempted to use Pet...it died, lulz
  • 3:07 - Sloppy attempt w/ Water Spout (fudged attack chain trying to find timing, wasted about 5 seconds of screw up clicks)
  • 3:50 - Tried T4 Hybrid with Pet, pet lasted about 10/s this time. Died about a 60/s in, decided to use Return to Battle out of spite.
  • 2:36 - T4 Hybrid, Water Spout

**Read second edit

  • 2:44 - T4 Hybrid, Water Spout, testing to see if time was accurate
  • 3:23 - Retesting the inclusion of Body Blow into the attack chain over a dual QS, in combination with Concentrated Strike while using Spout and T4 Hybrid. Basically confirmed the CS sucks in the Stalker attack chain.
  • 2:30 - Final test to affirm main attack chain, while using T4 Hybrid. Got hit once good, used Rebirth to insure I stayed alive.

 

So Average DPS: 389, I feel much better about this time. GO Kinetic Melee!

 

Edited to add in: I find it odd that some sets have better success with Water Spout. It actually ended up being detrimental to KM casting it on the Pylon. Even my best time with it (2:36) was still slower than my worst time with the standard chain not using it (2:30).

 

Edit on my edit: I forgot to add in the -Res proc to Water Spout. HA, I was scratching my head like "what the heck did I forgot?!" I remembered! So... have a dramatically different time for Water Spout now:

 

1:57 - 455 DPS SB>BB>QS>AS with Water Spout (And standard T4 Musc, Hyb Double, Degen MaxHP).

 

So, for best DPS, dont use the best attack in the set.  Thats a problem with the set design - suggest that we should lose the 'no crit refresh buildup' for just 'crit' on Concentrated Strikes

RE:  Quick Strikes - maybe since its a CHANCE to add assassins focus, the superfast recharge and animation on Quick Strike is hurting our chances?

 

 

In regards to Concentrated Strike, unfortunately I wasn't surprised by this flaw because KM suffers the same issue on Scrappers. The power hits like a truck, and has a neat mechanic with its ability to refresh the BU effect, but just like on Scrappers, it takes too long to animate and hurts the set empirically. On paper it always looked great, but in practice--especially with Procs and the like--it really hurts the set, especially when it misses. I'd rather miss one 100pt attack for 1/s, than a 300pt attack for 3/s. KM is very fluid in its ability to recover, and do a lot of damage in its first three attacks. Kind of follows a different philosophy that the upper tier attacks are burst-one-shot "fancy" abilities, but just as is true in martial arts, it's the smaller, fast, continuous hits that wear your opponent down. So... it makes sense that CS kinda sucks for DPS.

 

I also just couldnt walk away.

Tier 4 Musculature Core

Tier 4 Assault Radial (Not activated)

Tier 4 Reactive Radial

 

Times:

(these times with Makos in SB)

2:27, using your SB>BB>QS>AS

3:10

3:43

4:10

 

 

Replacing Makos with Assassins Mark in SB

4:15

4;10

3:56

 

I am confused.  My guess is having a proc sitting after the stealth from AS is doing crazy things to damage out?  Also, results are wildly variable.  Not sure what is causing variation, though lag may impact times - Im on a wireless network.  Also, that 2:27 time is such an outlier that I have no idea - I looked up in the middle of that run and went ‘WTH?’.  My best guess is a very lucky string of Quick Strike generating Assassins Focus (I may try a version with no recharge bonus slotted into it - my guess is that Assasins Focus is treated as PPM, and Quick Strike has an already high recharge thar doesnt want enhancing - coupled with Assassin Strike seeing more Hide procs by chance (I notice that it seems AS is procing Hide very unreliably on my test server high recharge slotting - on my live lowbies, with little recharge yet in AS, it proced hide more often, it seems.  This also goes to the idea that the chance to hide proc is PPM, but I dont know how Id leverage this, other than to make sure your Assassin Strike’s recharge is no better than the recharge of the heavy hitter your planning on using with it - not an issue with KM, as KM has no worthwhile heavy hitter to run off of AS)

 

I also notice the comment about the extra delay of BU helping - maybe Assassins focus has a hard coded limit to how often it can proc, or something wierd is going on, or were just hammering out chains too fast for the server to keep up?  This does suggest further testing is needed in varying recharge and delay conditions.

 

Great Justice - Invuln/Energy Melee Tank

Ann Atomic - Radiation/Super Strength Tank

Elecutrix - Electric Blast/Super Reflexes Sentinel

Ramayael - Titan Weapons/Bio Scrapper

C'len - Spines/Bio Brute

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